I had a pair of DR8 amps and a DR5 Pre-amp I bought from Lyric way back, recently gave them to a friend since I was not using them, he drives Maggie 3.? speakers with them, and he and I marveled at the beauty in the sound.
Well after laughing for the last 15 minutes reading threads from 15 years ago I have to chime in for more comments to come for the next 15 years to come. 1. I use to sell Classe Audio in the 80's,never heard a bad one.( and that's a lot of them ) 2. They sound dark,not what so ever.Find the right speakers and cables. 3. I still own a pair of DR-9 ( used as mono blocks ) and a DR-6 preamp. 4. My soundstage is wide and DEEEP and very stable. 5. DR-9 used as Mono blocks sound better than a stereo amp mode. 6. You can buy DR-9 for less than a $1,000.00 what a steal. So my amps are 30 years old and still kicking hard ,what do people want more than that.Clear, powerful and sweet products.
The guy I bought that amp from said that he had the Classe' refurb kit (bought directly from Classe' Audio) installed. Best I can tell from visually examining this amp vs the other two "originals", the refurb kit consists of new large power caps and all new power transistors. The "refurb" power transistors have Motorola vendor markings on them whereas the originals did not (it was intentionally removed by Classe' on the originals).
Just found this resurrected thread and thought a good opportunity to ask if any of you have experience with the Classe CT-2300. A couple years back I bought this amp and matching CT-SSP pre/pro, found used on audiogon and built before they moved manufacturing to China.
It is my understanding this is a true balanced design amplifier and I am using 2.5 meter balanced silver anti-cable interconnects. I did try single ended silver anti-cables and found them inferior. I have been making many changes mostly power cords and outlets and my system is sounding very good!
Fair enough, noromance. I have a DR-25 I bought new and two used DR-9s purchased recently from different sellers with the intention of running them dual bridged mono. One was fitted with a refurb kit from Classe’ a couple years ago, the other bone-stock original.
I know exactly what you mean about the DR-25 and the untouched DR-9 lacking the last degree of openness and lively sound. This other DR-9 with the refurb kit is another animal. Extremely open, fast, and lively and superbly musical. Among the best I have heard. Go figure...
Dave, it is possible. My dealer enthused about them but he never used them himself! It may be my taste- I like a very open, live sound. The Decca/401/tubes/ESL mob!
I had a McCormack DNA-1 and a Classe CA-300. The McCormack was obviously faster and probably a more open sound, but the CA-300 was more of a stable brute of an amp for some Martin Logans. My son-in-law now has the CA-300. The CA-300 was much better than the CA-200 with low impedance speakers.
Not arguing your opinion, but many (including me) used the early Classe’ class A/B amps via the XLR inputs. Dave Reich designed the DR-9 with single-ended inputs and later succumbed to pressure from Glen Grue to add XLR inputs. Reich did so in a less-than-ideal way, using a cheap opamp in the XLR circuitry. This continued for years in the DR-10, DR-15, and DR-25 and even in the later Fifteen and Twenty Five models after Reich left Classe’. I can personally attest to the lack of dynamics and liveliness of these amps using the XLR inputs. The result was that they were often described as "dark sounding". A different story completely using the single-ended (RCA) inputs IME.
Is it possible that you were also a victim to this in your auditions of the '80s?
Heard them back in the 80s. They bored me. I met Ken Kessler, the reviewer, and asked him how could he possibly like such dull sounding amps. He said he felt they were neutral and that is the way music sounded. Could never understand it.
I do like the older models CA 300 amp ETC, New units very well made "But" the prices are up there . I paid 3 Grand for the 300 I sold the unit , I still dream about the unit . Kicking myself in the Tokus
now, back to the Classe' discussion. I have not heard a bad amp from this company. My only quip would be that the newer stuff is junk-sourced to china.
If they were on dope in 2002, they probably aren't anymore. You two new guys are arguing with ghosts of the past. These posts are 14 years old and only one person (the OP) seemed to have anything but praise for Classe' amps.
Classe amps are amazing! If you have the coin, jump on a nice pair of blocs or a stereo amp.
They were my first choice last year, but when the 650W McCormack DNA-750's showed up, for an amazing price, THAT was a no brainer!!!! I do plan on a pair of Classe amps before the dirt nap.
Guys stop the argument. Don't compare cheap classe with more expensive one. Even with the same circuit, it will never sound the same. Try the Classe fifteen and tell me what you think. Read the reviews. Stereophile. Thanks.
In 1992, I purchased one of the last Classe' Tens (125wpc) designed by the legendary Dave Reich, whose amps bore the designation DR. The last DRs--DR-10, DR-15 and DR-25 (Ten, Fifteen and Twenty-Five)--are still considered some of the best-sounding ever to come out of Lachine or elsewhere. The DR-10 continues to drive our system, while speakers, preamps, CD players, transports, DACs, tuners, wire and cable, and accessories have come and gone. There've been many other amps in the house for extended audition as a possible replacement. Except for two, one SS, the other tubed, and both costing 7-8 times the DR-10, none have equaled the Classe' in OVERALL presentation or have been better in enough areas to warrant a change. This includes a number of later and latest Classe' amps. The remainder of our system: Avalon Arcus, c-j 14LS/Mullard, Accuphase CD player and tuner, Luminous Audio Technology ICs, Symo speaker cable, Shunyata Viper PCs and Hydra. When a better OVERALL amp is available to me at a reasonable price, I'll most definitely consider buying it. Until then, the venerable DR-10 stays.
Don't mean to be a party pooper, but there is a little money to be made in posting public reviews on audio equipment. I think it's called hack writing. Not that all manufacturers or dealers indulge in this sort of free cyber sales approach... but some do.
I wouldn't believe Kevziek's opinion any more than I would 75 audio or videophiles raving about the product of the century. Sonics, and the same goes for visuals, are a matter of taste. Appreciation and pleasure are immeasurable and unquantifiable.
Why are you getting so defensive and sensitive, Kevziek? Can't you take criticism of the internal validity of your findings? They are far from empirical. The fact is auditioning is more of a bottom-up process than most care to admit, and you certainly did not rule out bias in yours'.
I too have auditioned Classe along with other amps, in a quality system. And I was a professional musician. I know there are faults of the CA series and am sure there are better values than the 201, but I have found that it still competes with other price-like amps. I
It is not that I bow down to my amp, I just do not like the polarized, biased way this thread has started and has kept going. I also have no idea what you are after. Someone gives posts what they think, and you rebut them with Stereophile article. You listen to one, and shock of shocks, you don't like it. And the hole thing starts again. It is worth nothing, just like most other threads 'exploring' the inherent 'quality' of major-brand components. On their face, they may not be a bad idea, but I never seen one yield much benefit. You may have to email me with any personally directed comment. I'm done reading this thread.
Xenon Now thats very good. I just ran out and bought a whole case of those Hostess cakes. Awesome!! The keyboard is covered in chocolate crumbs and ...i'm feeling abit, excuse me...bloated.. On to subject at hand. I,m sure classe makes a fine product. However if you go to audioreview and plug in Electro's EMC1 cdp , you'll find 33 beautiful gut soulful praises of this player. Hardly 1 bad word! I,m confident this superior craftsmanship is present in their amps as well. So if MR. Kevziek said the above about Electrocompaniet's amps, my first reaction would be anger. I would post "are you sure about what you're saying maybe you need to change the associated equipment and/or get your hearing checked" Then again i may totally ignore him. Most Electro. owners would ignore him as well. I find most "professional" reviewers comments confusing, at times not the truth. But i think they are learning. Read the review in Dec. issue of sterophile by Fremer on the Kora Cosmos($6K) vs. Audio research VTM200($11K) Kora took the prize. There may be something out there as good as AND maybe less expensive than the Kora,i don't know. Thats why i research on Audiogon. And thats why i like Kev's thread. Like i say sometimes you can spend more and get less and sometimes you can spend less and get the least. (least = repairs) Tah Tah
I take umbrage at your denigration of snack food industry icon. It was totally uncalled for. At no time has Hostess ever made the claim that their cupcake was as good as, or even a substititute for, a chocolate cake made from premium ingredients.
Oh yeah ... and just where do I find one of your finely made cakes at 5:00am when I'm already 2 hours into a 10 hour drive & need a hit of caffeine and chocolate to wake me up? HUH? WEEELLL??? I KNOW where I can find a Hostess cupcake when I need one. They may not be great food, but they certainly are great junk food.
Why not more than 2 weeks ago, they saved my life during a trip to Colorado Springs. It was 7:00am & I had been on the road for 2-1/2 hours, was on low power and had to fill up the truck. After tending to the diesel duties I went into the Texaco quick stop store, and there...in front of my eyes...fresh, right off the truck...gleaming in their cellophane wrappers...joy of joys...happy..happy...HOSTESS CUP CAKES. Grab two packages..a large coffee...put some tunes in the CD player...put the cruise control on 80 ...sit back..relax and enjoy the feast...OH yeah, babe...
Thanks, Tweekerman, for defending me and the original reason for my thread. This thread has basically served to allow others to spew upon me nastiness, condescension, and anger; which has only served to reveal their personality flaws and emotional problems. If you can't handle another opinion or questioning of the sonics of your beloved Classe product, then don't read or respond to threads about it.
TO: all the above audiogoners (won't mention names) that are bashing Kev's all important thread: is classe worth the money Being new in this field its threads like this that keeps me from being sucked in by "professional" reviewers hype as well by big full page ads and some audiogoners biased opinions. If your research reveals a weakness in a product lets hear your opinion. If you disagree no reason to attempt to discredit the questioner. Remember this is the USA NOT russia... We've all fell into pitfalls along the way ie. bought what we wish we had'nt. Its these kind of threads that lead us to a better understanding of the products out there.
all talk and no music makes a bad boy very very bad.... seems to me we like to argue about points of view... which we all know about opinionss.....one mans poision is another mans cup of tea...I see the real listeners argue points very little........
I love the Hostess cupcake analogy. Drives me crazy when some teenager (even the grownup ones) says "that's just your opinion" in response to my saying a particular cake or pie (or taco) is better than another. There are standards, and there is such a thing as quality.
You lost me, otoh, with the appeal to the authority of the "40 other audiophiles on AudioReview."
I have never knowingly listened to the expensive and well reviewed Classes, but while I have an "opinion" on the less expensive Classe amps that I have had in my home on audition (decided not to buy them), like Pops, I don't see any point to this thread either.
Ramstl, taste and opinion are just that. However, repeatable, sonic characteristics are not the same. The Classe 201's damped out, airless, rolled-off high end was very obvious to three different listeners on highly resolving systems. So was the weak, flabby bass. These are deficiencies, not just taste issues. If I was speaking of things like, "a little brighter", "a little darker", "more upfront", "more laidback" -- those are characteristics that I could see can be interpreted as "taste."
There are people who think a Hostess cupcake tastes as good as a homemade chocolate cake made with butter and premium chocolate. Is that just a matter of taste? It's a matter of quality, and there are many who lack the discernment to know.
By the way, the DNA 0.5, while a decent amp, is tizzier and inferior in other ways to Steve's new DNA 125 . He will tell you that himself, as well as over 40 other audiophiles reviewing the DNA125 on AudioReview.
I think you meant "IYO" when you made your statement comparing the McCormick to Classe'. I would agree they have a different sound but as to which is better....that is for the listener to decide. I don't consider myself the final authourity on absolute matters and certainly not anyone else.
BTW, I don't believe the DNA.5 delux is outdated and vastly improved upon by McCormick. Also, for the record, I never owned the DNA .5, a very good friend of mine does and I have listen to it for hours on end and I have enjoyed it. I just like the Classe' in my system better.
That's my story and I am sticking to it ;) And, I will give someone else the last word.
The bottom line on this whole thread is that many, but not all, devotees of Classe amps who answered here can't handle any criticism towards their enshrined objects. This is quite myopic and immature. There are constant excuses: Martin Colloms did a subjective review; Robert Reina didn't know what he was talking about; the systems are messed up. Quite frankly, if all Classe owners have to offer is excuses and attacks on every reviewer who has given lukewarm reviews to these amps, I'd rather the thread end, too.
In response to Ramstl, the McCormack amp I compared it to is a much refined design over the DNA 0.5 you owned.
I have outlined the systems I used to analyze the CA-201, and I'm sure that I zeroed in on the sonic characteristics of this amp. It isn't a matter of taste -- I am describing sonic deficiencies both I and an audiophile friend heard. FYI, I am a professional musician, pianist and vocalist, and am acutely aware of what sounds like music and what doesn't.
What a worthless thread, the only information worth reading are Classe owners or other rebutals who have heard Classe amps and offer personal experiences - this thread should have gone under "hall of shame" or "who got their feelings hurt by Classe." If you already have all the answers Kev then move on...
IÂve owned a late production run Classe CA 300 for well over a year now. In my experience, I have found that this amp works very well with electrostatic hybrid speakers. It casts a spacious, well layered soundstage that is anchored upon a vise-grip tight bass foundation. The midrange presentation is a bit cooler than Rowland gear, yet not as sterile as some Krell amps I have owned. (Yes, IÂve owned Krell gear) The upper registers are detailed and clean. Much like the Rowland gear, I can listen to this amp for hours as it is musically inviting, exceptionally dynamic and fairly involving. I canÂt say that about most solid state gear. The CA-300 build quality is exceptional! This amp is a brute but also very sensitive. I have had issues with ground loop hums, heat sink Âringing and sudden safe mode shut-downs when this amp gets fed anything it doesnÂt quite like. IÂve been fortunate as these issues have been far and few between and generally quickly resolved. With a used street price around $2,000 I believe the Classe CA-300 represents a good sound value. While a bit finicky, this amp is long on muscle with a sweetness and openness that just makes you smile! I certainly think itÂs a solid state amp most can happily live with and others would die for. Regards; -Jerie
Depends on your associated equipment and your tastes, just like any other hi-fi purchase. I personally love the Classe sound. I've owned a Classe CA-200, CAV-75 and currently a CDP 1. I've never had any problem with any of these pieces of equipment. As far as 'dark-sounding', if you like the 'brightness' of Krell, you will not like Classe. I prefer the musicality of Classe over Krell. This is a highly subjective choice though.
Whenever I read discussions like this, I always wonder whether the person who auditioned the equipment has asked how long the equipment has been run. I am going through a significant break-in period with some new equipment that I purchased, and, if you auditioned it the day I brought it home, you would have made many observations about harshness in the mid-range, lack of bass response, a "sheen" on the high frequencies, etc.
I am now in the position to leave the equipment turned on 10-12 hours per day, and can state that the sound today is nothing like the sound on the first day. I expect in 2-3 more weeks the components will be close to totally broken-in and the sound will have changed (for the better, hopefully) yet again.
I guess my questions are: do you think equipment needs to be broken in? Was the Classe equipment you auditioned fully broken in? Could a full break-in period be the difference between what you heard and what the Classe owners are saying about their equipment?
Jayt, or is it Dragont? Why do you have two user names on Audiogon?
Your name-calling is inappropriate, unfounded & only reflects back upon the writer.
It is certainly curious that Classe' sales manager would tell both of us different information. Since the information Classe gave me is also STATED IN PRINT in all Classe' owner's manuals, I would say that my information is correct. Go in the first pages to "CLASSE DESIGN PHILOSOPHY", and I quote, "All Classe products share exactly the same circuit design philosophy. This means ALL AMPLIFIERS and all high level circuits benefit from the same design goals. Similar circuits are then tailored to different power levels etc...."
In response to your accusation that I "pre-empted the discussion with a list of negatives on the entire Classe line," I suggest you read the title of the thread. It specifically states "amps". What right or business of yours is it to tell me to "leave the discussion," the one that I began? Why don't you follow your own advice.
Nilthepill, the systems I listened to the Classe in were very revealing systems, the components of which I shall list. In any event, the results were clear and significant.
Preamplifiers: VTL ($4500 new model), SFL-2 Amps: Mac MC2000, Mac 352, McCormack DNA-225, Audio Research VT-100 Mk II Source: Ayre $7500 CD player, Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 & Theta Pro Basic IIIa Speakers: B&W Nautilus 802, B&W 802 Matrix III.
Kevziek, May this one set-up you listened is flawed. What speakers, cables and other electronics they are paired with, not to mention room. What is/are your other source/s of criticism? Stereophile? It may be that at the time the reviews came out Classe was not the great advertising income for Stereophile!! I said May be!! Any way I am more than happy with my two CA-400's, one CAV-150 and TUNER1 and CP-45 and CDP.3 and SSP-50. No intention to upgrade.
Kevziek, I did do my homework. I had been a CA200 owner for more than 4 years and I recently upgraded to the CAM350's. Before I did the upgrade, I discussed the new 01 line-ups with Classe's sales manager. What I said yesterday was exactly what the Classe sales manager told me. I didn't add any or take away any from what he said. So take it from there. I'm surprised too. It is quite apparent that you are not a Classe owner but you choose Classe for creating a discussion and pre-empted the discussion with a list of negatives on the entire Classe line. Whenever you hear any favourable comments coming from other actual Classe owners, you would rebuff and bring out other products such as McCormack's to put down such comments. You may have started the discussion with whatever good spirit you claimed to have had, but you certainly have defeated yourself by sounding stubborn and ignorant. You've admitted that you've never listened to any Classe models higher than the 201 because they are not available from where you live. Then, how can you discredit all Classe lines because you didn't have the opportunity of listening to them ? By this time, you have received 40 feedbacks on your questions on Classe, why not leave the subject now and form your own decision whether or not to buy a Classe product for yourself. To all Classe owners, don't waste any more of your time on this unworthy question from someone who has demonstrated repeatly that his mind is already made up that almost no Classe amp is worth his consideration. We all wanted to tell him and help him, as Classe owners,how we feel about what we own, but apparently he is not open to any favourable feedbacks. Let's wish him luck to be able to listen to more Classe designs, old and new and have the good fortune of owning some someday.
Can't this be an intelligent discussion instead of an "attack Kevziek"? I tried to encourage discourse and dialogue and a presentation of varying opinions. Let's stop this politicial correctness. Ohlala, if you're happy with your Classe 70, all power to you! I began this thread to find out other's experiences, not be attacked for daring to say negative things about the enshrined Classe amplifiers.
I have nothing against Classe. Actually, I think they are a great company and truly dedicated. Their Omega amp, and probably the CAM series, have been well received. I have no opportunity to hear them, as the Classe dealer here doesn't carry anything but the small models. The CA201 to my ears was too homogenized sounding, and the lack of air and space in the highs, along with their rolloff, made it a non-choice for me.
God, who cares? Kevzeik had made up his mind by mid-October. I am just a little puzzled. He seems to be angry with Classe and/or the posters of this thread. And poor me, I will just have to wallow in the mud with my lowest of the low, the Classe 70.
Dragont, do your homework first. Classe told me that the circuitry in the CA201, 301, 401 is ALL THE SAME CIRCUIT. Any improvements from the Omega project that are used are used in all of them. The CAM 350 & 200 are different, and incorporate more of Omega's technology. The McCormack DNA-225 is far superior to the Classe. I went on the Audio Research tube gear, and it blows all of this stuff in the dust.
The real change of circuitry design based on what Classe has learned from developing thier Omega power amp starts from the CA301. The CA201 is still pretty much the old CA200 design with a now 01 style case. If you want to appreciate the Omega inspired changes on the Classe CA line of amps, start audioning from the 301 and up ! If you still come to the same conclusion that you had on the 201, then call the whole world stupid with you being the only smart one, and look elsewhere for you next amp and see if you can surpass the values of the new Classe amps. Happy amp hunting.
I own the 301, and short of having twenty thousand dollars to buy the tenor otl's, I love them. I use the 301 with piega 10's, and the audio aero capitole 24/192 cd player... I think the results of other listeners opinions could be what they are matched with, and possibly, just plain old opinion... we all have one, got to love america.....
I agree with Perfecimage. Ca-400, once their top of the line would change your mind. Apparently difference at different price points, the sound signature does change, as it should.But not to the extent that Kevziek describes. Although I have to agree prior to having CA-400, I did have Ca-200 and the sound was inferior as compared to the CA-400.
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