Clarity Cap CMR Impressions

I  try to give you tips on how to better your music enjoyment 
and  one Ignorant person had my recommendation of the dbx pa-2 removed.
thats fine  stay ignorant.

Sorry if I steal you of precious time :(

which, is better balanced across the board?, the silver oil or CMR ?
as i said i like very much the silver/oil timbre, so i'm scared that if i'll try CMR it has highs freq. forward than siver/oil
wgat is your point of view?

p.s.
i don't understand how mail you.

Hello audio4pass
The Clarity CMR are not opaque or steryl, Mundorf silver oil is very good balance wise they are close the Clarity CMR is better balanced across the board.
There is no stupid questions . Do uour selves a favor look up DBX  pa-2, research it before Saying anythjng.my uncle being a Audio engineer in pro audio.  This amount of computing power was over $2k just 3 years ago .nothjng yo loose,Everythjng to  gain .the Wizard takes thd guess work out.
 Your system will never be better, Ever .Itwill make any room sound Much Much 
Better no BS Fact !! No mstter jow much $$ you have into uour system.The best advise you will ever get ,the rest is up to you !!
Email me if you want to discuss this in depth. 

@audioman58
do you read my message ?, or you don’t answer because my question is too stupid ?
i don't waste your time :)

Audio

I am doing the testing I am doing exactly because of the differences. :) That and that I really want to remake the crossovers and need to wait for resistors to come in.

The nature of engineering and testing is not always to build up full prototypes, and then fix what is wrong. Engineering, like science, is built up from smaller tests, small hypothesis that lead us to larger goals.

As part of my own process, I first do this 1-sided capacitor test to prove whether or not there really are any differences at all, as they are most clear this way. It is much harder for the placebo effect to interfere and relies a lot less on aural memory.

The notes I made about imaging support the hypothesis that these two capacitors are NOT equivalent. If I had a rock solid image with two different caps L and R it would support the hypothesis that the two caps are equivalent. On the other hand, this test cannot evaluate the overall difference in imaging of the two caps.

Once this testing is over, and I have strong evidence for the differences in dynamics and tonal balance, then I will rebuild both crossovers and be able to fully assess the overall imaging.

Of course, another approach would be to build two entirely different crossovers. Given how I destroyed the first, that may very well be how I should have gone, but honestly I'm pretty lazy and don't want to switch back and forth for these trials. :)

Best,

E

@audioman58
could you answer to my questions of my last message ?
"the CMR detail you write in comparison with mundorf silver oil is more or less?

which is warmer between the two ?

i also find mundorf silver oil the best of mundorf production, i love them, but i have not done comparison versus MR or better CMR, and you ?"

I find the CMR  better then Mundorfs in  overall balance .i would have Never 
just installed one capacitor channel that is just asking for a headache 
one channel sometimes mixes more bass on one channel then   another on cd, it could be the other speaker there is no standard ,this to applies to correct phase also.some cds
are out of phase that is why the New PS Audio dac has a phase option 
and decodes every cd in DSD which is like a master recording,and very analog and detailed .
they have a Major firmware upgrade coming out in 4 weeks that will really raise the Bar .Just a heads up if any of you guys are treating yourself to a new dac. That is my Bday present . Underwood Wally has some good deals.

@audioman58
does the accuracy of cmr could be result too much (as erik said) or sterile sounding?
the detail you write in comparison with mundorf silver oil is more or less?
which is warmer between the two ?
i also find mundorf silver oil the best of mundorf production, i love them, but i have not done comparison versus MR or better CMR, and you ?

@erik_squires
regarding imaging i find CMR more stable then MR.
with MR the instruments go everywhere in the room and have giant dimensions
i suggest you to compare the caps on both speakers: compare them only in one channel is a great error
this is a suggestion on my eperience.
on one channel is easy but not right :)


-->At the end i would konw if when these CMR are burned-in are sterile/hyperdetailed cap.
i like very much mundorf silver oil, does CMR close to them ?
:)

I’m at the 48 hour mark. The CMR still sounds brighter and more open / uncongested compared to the Clarity MR + Audyn Cu but it’s definitely getting smoother as time goes on.

Imaging is suffering somewhat. The left (CMR) has a better sense of instrument presence, but the L and R speakers aren’t matching well enough anymore to create a broad sound stage.

Hopefully this all gets fixed when I replace the R with CMR’s too.

I did do a lot of measurements to see if I could find a reason for the difference in sound using Dayton DATS V2.

Honestly no number stood out except precision. The MR caps were about 1% off, so the 0.1 Audyn Cu bypass cap and the Duelund silver foil pushed them up to nearly perfect values. The CMR caps are dead on accurate in value.

Best,

E

Thanks! for sharing- audioman58

Yes I feel once you get close to the 200 mark which I have now
Thd sonic balance is very detailed and open and warm  but not as rich as a Jupiter Copper foil.  In some systems I would welcome the sonic accuracy of the CMR 
Caps Munforf supreme are rated a 10 ,CMR a 12+ as well as                          Mundorf Silver gold oil which is s bit topped up on the  top end .personally I feel 
The Mundorf Silver oil is the most balanced for the tweeter.in the Mundorf line up.
The new CMR cap is up their with all caps except for top tier like Duelund cast.
Some caps too rich ,let the Dac,wires dictate the balance.

what’s change in sound after decent burn-in?
the highs congested emphasys go away or not ?

tha cmr  comparison you have done is against mundorf silver oil ?

Hello Guys with the extra Copper the detail can seem a bit tipped up in these CMR caps  at first 
they need a solid 100 hours to start to settle down 200 hours to get to 90%
and 300 fully runin.  Which is a pretty accurate statement .do yourself a favor 
My a $30 SPL meter to know how loud you are listening 
ad if played on low volume will take forever .i recommend 65-70 db  good back ground   Low - med listening 80 plus getting a bit loud .90+ db hearing damage 
no joke. 

Audio...see the time stamps on my posts..

i wont have a final assessment for a week or su until i rebuild bith sides.

@audioman58 
so you compared cmr aganist supreme silver oil or normal supreme ?
if i understand right after 160 hours cmr are better than mr, right ?
because i listened the same thing of erik: in the highs freq cmr are congested
how many hours do you suggest to start linsten the cmr ?
please explain beter, thank you 

@erik_squires 
you say that now the cmr top end is opened up, not congested as before.
are you sure ?, how many hours are burned the cmr

@audioman58

Good info! I've been lusting after the Jupiter Cu foil, but man, about 5-7x more expensive, far too rich for me even as prototypes.

Best,

E

What does seem to be consistent in my current listening trials is the CMR breathes a lot better than the MR.

I know it's a weird thing to say, but if you have heard GOOD high efficiency speakers you'll have an idea of what I mean. The top end just sounds like it was slightly congested before and now has completely opened up.

Hopefully this quality lasts through the break-in. :)

Best,

E

I havd been molding caps and Xover parts for almost 20 years now.
I just replaced thd Mundorf supreme for the by mids . Thd new CMŔ are much 
Cleaner then  the Mundoff  supreme, even with a .1 Mundorf Silver oil.they are rated have over 160 hours I on them they have  and they are Noticably better then what I knew with old Mr caps. These caps  are special very nice baLance.
These  caps  present thd performance which us as good as Jupiter's best or Mundorf without bring too much as Good thjng. These CMR caps rate at 
Least a 12+ in my system much less $ than the top names but not in performsnce.

I think it has some features which move the CMR more in that direction, yes.

But that is very general. I don't hear the over-saturation, over colorful treble. It is cooler/brighter. For a while it also sounded grainy, I hope that goes away soon. :)

Best,

E

ok, so claritycap cmr (not jet burned), sound similar to mundorf suopreme line?
so, util now mr seems to be the most "natural"?

That is up to you. Magico and B&W are big fans. I don’t think people realize at the top end of these ranges how much you are listening to the caps instead of the speaker drivers. It’s a big deal.

This is also about Mundorf Supreme

Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this"

This is the Mundorf Supreme line.

erik, 
you write: " Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this"
What caps you are referring to ?

Hi @grannyring

Thanks!

I meant to say "The most expensive speakers in the Magico and B&W lines rely heavily on Mundorf Supreme's for their sound quality."

Best,

E

Funny Erik. I agree with you on the importance of caps in a speaker especially on the midrange and tweeter. I find the paper in oil/wax types with copper or aluminum foil sound best in terms of sounding more like the instrument. I have liked Mundorf in the past, but must say the Jupiter and Duelund caps seem to sound more real. There are others, but I have not tried them all. 

audio4pass

I haven’t heard every Mundorf Supreme but here are the traits I associate with them, in general. (The Mundorf MKP is a completely different animal, dark like the Clarity ESA only with more low level detail).

Very smooth, glass like quality to mid and top octaves, but there’s also a scintillation or over-saturation of colors in the mid to top. It’s not unpleasant, but it’s NOT natural. Real sounds and instruments don’t sound like this.

So, which is better? Clarity MR or Mundorf Supreme (and it’s varieties)??

That is up to you. Magico and B&W are big fans. I don’t think people realize at the top end of these ranges how much you are listening to the caps instead of the speaker drivers. It’s a big deal.

Personally, I wanted more natural sounding instruments. The kind of sound you hear when you walk up to a saxophone or violin busker on the T without an amplifier.

A lot of people do NOT agree with me, which is why I will die penniless and alone. :)

Best,

E

shortly could you describe mundorf silver oil compared to mr  ?

so, from these few hours of burn-in the cmr seems to have a mid-high more prominent and rough than mr which seems to be more warm and relaxed sound.
go on with burn-in, but i think the family sound you found is that....
i hope the thing go better in next hours

Also, to anyone doing capacitor comparisons, it is WAY easier to do them by replacing them in only one channel than both.

This actually reminds me a little of Carver's approach to amplifier comparison.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

It would be really interesting to build a test bed to compare 2 film caps to each other simultaneously, then use that to record the delta between them in terms of performance using actual music.

I'm a genius. It needs a catchy name and a sponsor.

Best,

E

So less than 24 hours in I really don't like the change. Yes, there's more air, but it's due to an exaggerated treble IMHO. It has the treble hype of the top end Mundorf's without their glass smoothness.

More later.


Erik

Cymballs sound more prominent now.

I want to wait for a few days before assessing that this is a real difference.

I think there are some fantastic sounding metal dome's. They don't all have the oil-can resonance that characterized so much of the metal domes of the 1980's 1990's.  Few of these are in commercial speakers though... ( Zing! ) hahahah> :)

The AMT tweets I am using are superbly open. Measurably flat and lacking of compression of distortion.


Best,

E

thank you erik,
we wait your review when cmr will hase a good burn in....i know that they need at least 200 hours.

about the more extention do mean hights or bass or both ?
if is only on higths this may be critic on metal dome tw or more open tw
do you agree?

OK, caps are in my left speaker only. And they are hacked in with jumper cables.

I like to change caps on one side only sometimes, it helps me figure out what the real differences are by what now sounds muted.

This will probably change over next 48 hours... but...

First impressions are this cap has a lot more extension, which makes the MR sound dark by comparison, and has tons more air.

Some of this is normal to a new cap. What matters is what happens by Tuesday. :)

When the parts arrive from Parts Connexion (probably Friday) I'll rebuild both sides and give you all an update.

Best,

E

Hi Audi4Pass,

It wasn’t even that subtle. :)

The big cap sounded more natural and liquid when bypassed. I wouldn’t say it was anything even as nuanced as imaging or dynamic range per se. More about the decay of notes and perception of space. Like the larger cap would "cut off" the notes too soon.

I tried 1 Audyn TC 0.1uF cap on each. The Audyn TC made a huge improvement in this area on the large cap, but no diff on the small cap.

I strongly suspect that building up a big MR cap out of smaller one's would work as well, but Clarity pricing did not make this affordable at all, as you'd pay significantly more in the end.

Best,

E

erik, what do you mean when you write:
" the failing of the MR caps was at the larger end of the spectrum".
... that with the MR sound all bigger than should be ?...the instruments are very bigger and don't have their real life dimension ?
the presentation goes very far from real position of loudspeakers ?

we wait your review on CMR compared with MR
;) 

More info: The Audyn TC bypass was 0.1uF. The Duelund was 0.047uF. So, proportionately each changed their cap about 1%.

Also, this high pass filter goes to a larger Mundorf AMT. Measurably and sonically the equal or better of most Be and diamond domes. It has the speed and transparency with better dynamic range and linearity. The larger surface area limits dispersion which is exactly what I wanted when I designed the speakers.

OT: Nothing pisses me off more than armchair speaker designers mansplaining why AMT’s won’t work or are inferior because of their dispersion.

Best,

E

The Audyn bypassed the 12 uF. Good improvement.

The Duelund bypassed the smaller cap. No noticeable change. I also had tried the Audyn. It changed the tone, but not the sound quality, so I chalked it up to simple uF change, not a real sound quality improvement.

Based on a number of tests I had concluded the failing of the MR caps was at the larger end of the spectrum, while smaller caps performed nearly flawlessly.

The CMR line should remove this issue so that is what I am looking for.

Best,

E

Hi Tim,

Mains were 4 and 12uF Clarity MR caps.

Unfortunately after destroying my first crossover it seems I used way too much hot glue to swap caps out very easily.  I'm going to have to order new parts. :(

Best,


E

so you used an Audyn TC and a Duelund Silver foil as bybass.... What are the main caps that you bypassed?

I should warn you guys, the big cap is currently bypassed by an Audyn TC, and the small cap by a Duelund silver foil.

Silver foil IMHO did nothing. Audyn is priceless.

So my goal is to see if the new caps by themselves are as good as this combination.

I keep looking at this filter and man, I think I'm going to have to sacrifice one if not both of these caps. << cries >>

@erik_squires 
Hi Erik, If you would please,  let us know what these replaced and how they compared when you tell us how you like them. Tim 

i'm excited :) 

Man I have been slacking. I've been afraid of dismantling my current crossovers to put these in. :) I didn't do a very good job of making them upgradeable. :) I'll try to get to it this weekend.

I'm putting in a pair of caps, 4uF and 12uF

Best,

E

hi guys, 
someone of you has compared CMR vs MR ?
what are the sound deifferences ?

thank you

Look forward to hearing your impressions. Thanks!

I just received Clarity CMR caps that will go into my 2-way Mundorf/ScanSpeak system soon.

ESR was normal, around 0.4 Ohms @1kHz for 10uF.

Caps are now puck shaped, instead of cans. About 12% smaller by volume. They also measure really tightly. Like, within 0.2% of each other and of spec. While the MR versions were also pretty tightly controlled, they were about 1% under marked values on my measurements. Still well within the 3% spec.

Going from 1% to 0.2% of marked value speaks to greatly improved manufacturing tolerances. Refinements like this are not at all easy to make.

I’ll add listening impressions much later.