I've always wanted to hear their high end stuff, but never seen it even at the Sony stores.
Chord Dave or Ayre QX5 Twenty DAC???
Down to two choices in DAC's, the Chord Dave or the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. Comes down to best sound or versatility and cost. Speakers are Wilson Audio Sasha's and amp is T+A 2500R. Love the versatility of the Ayre but the sound of the Chord Dave is phenomenal, not sure if the Ayre could compare. Not sure if the Chord would still sound as good without spending mass amounts on a power regenerator and power cable.
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Personally I think the Chord Dave is overpriced. I heard one through very nice headphones at the recent Bristol exhibition. No doubt it sounded good but so did the new Sony Dac at a fraction of the price. A shame really cos Sony in 2017 has not got the perception of making genuine High End gear but they do. |
Plus brand loyalty is important to keep your revenue streams going. So many high end purchasers have no problem with a 7-10 years life span for their product. This way we can do a fairly inexpensive refresh around year 5 or so and keep the gear for at least 10 years, sell used and roll that into the NEWEST tech. All I know is that every upgrade Ayre has offered (I went from AX7 to the evolution upgrade and then from the AX5 to the twenty upgrade) has been a game changer for them. Just huge upgrades. I feel the 20 upgrade took the company to the upper crust of high end audio. Just great values. I'm sure many of you feel the same about the products you own. As you basically stated, if and made, they can usually upgrade, but only if they can physically fit it into the box (yes, I had a DAC that wasn't going to fit the box, but eventually he said it would). The only problem I have with the smaller companies at times is that they often are month's to a year or more behind in getting product out, especially if they have life circumstances that get in their way. That's one reason I moved on from my original DAC to the Ayre. I was a great great sounding DAC and I was going to do the upgrade to the new state of the art one he came out with, but it was going to take way too long to get done and he's a one man show with someone helping and if things happen, who's going to work on it etc... again, that's just ME and MY concerns with the smaller companies. We all know what we are getting into when making our purchasing decisions. It's all good as it's pros and cons on each side. |
Winson, totally agree. Many DAC makers are starting to offer these soft and hardware upgrades. If they didn't, I don't think their sales would be quite as strong. I would not purchase one from a company that wasn't going to do updates and then wouldn't offer them. Makes no business sense as the companies can earn a bit extra cash, but keep their users very happy and content and not wanting to sell off to get the DAC of the day. |
Yes Troy, Chord uses a PULSE ARRAY Dac withthe WTA filter at increasing tap lengths. The point I think Cstooner was making is that there are many ways to update and the reputation of the manufacturers matter most. I and many others have sent back our Lampis for reasonably priced updates that include both HARDWARE updates and firmware updates. In some cases even digital architecture changes, like going from Delta sigma to R2R ladder, etc. Finally, sometimes you do need hardware upgrades. In my case the superclock additions to the Amanero USB was a most rewarding upgrade and addressed the weakest point of Amanero (great software, but lagging hardware in terms of clocs used). I also had the chipless DSD specs moved up from a 256 max to 512 capabiliy (getting my PC ready for DSD8X/DXD upsampling). There are no Dac chips in my Dac, despite have 2 DSD (chipless) and 1 PCM (ladder array) engines. I have never owned an Ayre, but have spoken with Charlie at length. Stellar reputation. I own a Chord and their Customer service is great. Owned several lampis and have had wonderful Customer service with Lukasz and enjoyed upgrading to get his periodic advances. Everytime my Lampi comes back there is an improvement and he is always making advances. You cant go wrong with any of these top guys, except for personal taste and system synergy. Really! |
No the difference between the Ayre's FPGA and the Chords are too totally different design concepts, they share one common thing an FPGA can hold a set of programming instructions, like RAM. Ayre is a Chip based Dac, and uses a specific Dac chip, and runs its own programing for filtering. Chord uses an FPGA which runs everything, they do not use an AKM or ESS or Burr Brown dac chip, not a single oneso in terms of upgradability every parameter is instantly unpgradable. |
Troy is just mistaken as he doesn't sell Ayre and probably isn't up to speed on it like he is the Aqua that he sells. The Ayre is very easy to update. Ayre as a company has one of, if not the best track record of offering fairly cost updates for their products. They have at least a 7 year life cycle and for audio, that's rare as most anyone would agree. They were working with ESS and got the first chips to play with and then to come to market with. As with their twenty upgrades to their amps, they will offer whatever updates they do to the QX5/20. They have one of the larger staff's of engineers and are always working on bettering their products. They have already offered many software upgrades to the QX5/20 that have made the unit more fun to play with and there will be plenty more in the future. Wisnon is dead on in what he calls marketing. I like a bunch of the DAC's that are spoken about in this thread and some that are not. There is not best no matter the cost. There are a couple of 20k plus (one MUCH more), that I wouldn't buy if they were 5k as they are way too dry for my tastes. I've heard both in at least three systems that are worthy of their cost and I never 'got them'. You don't have to spend more than 14k or so to get top digital sound these days. Yes, I got the Ayre and not because I had to or because a friend told it or any of that. I personally got it for their rep as a company and I knew what the Codex was to the under 5k DAC's and I loved the idea of a full function, digital remote front end. I had to have a Roon end point even if I wasn't running Roon yet as I believe that's going to be the future. I wanted a DAC that optimized every input and didn't just talk about all their money being put into only the USB input. I needed something that could remotely control all my digital inputs as I have a few and that list may grown. I wanted to be able to have a top USB, true balanced and ethernet connect as I may or may not network (wasn't sure at the time) and I wanted flexibility. That's not important to many of my friends, but if it's offered in a box that sounds as good or better than other DAC's, then I wanted in. Sound is what kept me in. I can honestly say that I'm in touch off the boards with at least 15 users of the QX5/20 and my system is probably the least expensive of the bunch. Everyone is wildly excited about it. That's rare in audio I believe. This isn't a commercial for the Ayre either as I'm not a dealer and get nothing from sharing thoughts. I know a few Totaldac users and they will also rave about their DAC's. I also have a feeling that the Brinkman will be the same as I heard it and loved it. The only problem is that for me, it's at least 6k more than the QX5/20 and I can't see spending that much more on these DAC's. Even Michael Lavorgna said that his Totaldac isn't that much better sounding than the QX5/20. I know Michael and we talked about what and how we listen so I know where we differ and where we are the same. I personally respect the heck out of him. I've known many a reviewer over the years and some are fair and outstanding even if you don't like the same things they do. There are few folks who listen to as much digital as he does. |
Troy, I do not understand your comments above regarding the FGPA. I found two references below that describe Ayre's use of the FGPA. Note #1: "The Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC uses the ESS ES9038PRO DAC chip which is used for D/A conversion with Ayre's proprietary FPGA-based minimum phase filter. Note #2: "The ES9038PRO used in the Ayre QX-5 DAC, combined with Ayre’s custom minimum-phase digital filter, implemented in a low noise FPGA". What is the difference between the the Chord's FGPA based implementation and Ayre's FPGA-based minimum phase filter implementation? Since both DAC's are using a FGPA, does this mean that both DAC's can be upgraded by re-programing the FGPA? |
I got no skin in the game but know of and have heard both of these companies fine products, both have some good strengths, we used to sell Chord and do not now sell them so we have no skin in the game nor do we sell Ayre. There is one advantage that the Chord Dave has the Aqua Hifi Dac have that the Ayre doesn't. The Chord is FPGA based and is easy to update, the Forumla is designed on all separate boards and Aqua has shown they can and will offer reasonably priced updates, I haven't heard the Forumla but we have the Lascala and it is excellent I haven't heard the Forumla I will say that the Lascalla is excellent. So one thing I would ask with the Ayre, is how easy would it be to upgrade? Aside from sound quality, ease of upgrading, in the turbulent world of digital is a very good thing. For those on the East Coast we, Audio Doctor have one of the largest collections of digital gear on display: we display: Lumin, Aurender, Mytek, Aqua, EMM Labs, Light Harmonic, Baetis, Cary Audio, T+A, Nad, Naim, Nuprime and a few others. For those who haven't heard the Light Harmonic Davinci is amazing and we have one of these rare dacs! Troy Audio Doctor www.audiodoctor.com old website new one coming soon 877 428 2873 |
Very well put for sure. To me these shoot outs are nice to read about and if you know the ear of the person posting, you can whittle things down a bit possibly. I'll probably take you up on a visit that first week of April. Have to watch daughter in Daytona for the national collegiate cheer championships the 4th-that Friday or Saturday. I will leave Sarasota airport that Monday afternoon I believe. I"ll let you know the schedule when I get closer. Glad to see a Vandy dealer on the west coast. lol. |
Hi everyone, thank you for the kind words. I would just like to caution everyone to not put too much stock into one individuals personal choice. Just last week I loaned out 4 DAC's to a local client in Tampa and he chose the Ayre QX-5 Twenty in his system. The Roon endpoint and the overall relaxed "just right" sonics were what appealed to him. About a month ago, another chose the Chord DAVE. And as others have said, the Berkeley REF2 is also excellent (albeit more than double the price of the Ayre and others). There are so many great digital products on the market and it all comes down to personal preference, music tastes, system synergy, etc. I learned a lot time ago not to guess what I think people might like. Ultimately, keep an open mind, listen and decide for yourself. If any of you are in the Sarasota/Tampa area, I would welcome you for a visit to my store to meet and listen. |
ctsooner, thanks for all your input. The Sasha's have plenty of bass. I listen to many types of music, love amazing vocals, lots of jazz, some electronic, love chill music like Thievery Corporation, some 80's music--mostly on vinyl...I have heard the Ayre QX5 Twenty with the Ayre integrated AX5 (?) with smaller speakers than mine at an audio store. I also heard the Dave, but with electronics much more expensive than mine. I am not able to hear either in my system. I really liked both, the Ayre was smooth and natural w stellar vocals. Loved it. The Dave for me was more dynamic, eerie and dramatic. Loved it also. Will buy one of these two DACS in one week. If I get the Dave, I will also get the Aurender A10, which also has MQA and storage that I need. If I think my funds will be too tight, I will get the Ayre. |
Music, what type of music do you listen to most of the time? Have you listened to the Dave and QX5 yet? If not, you probably want to try and get both into your system. I spoke with a few guys in the last couple of days about this thread. A few own the QX5 and one oned the Dave, but switched to the QX5 for the better bass as well as the flexibility as a digital hub and for Roon end point which I don't think Dave is. I don't think I could ever purchase a product worth more than a couple of thousand without getting it into my own system to audition first, lol. Good luck. Tons of great products to play with, that's for sure. Happy for you no matter what you ultimately end up with. |
CStooner. Mike is da bomb. He has great stuff. If you are near Sarasota, look him up and his superb demo room. Call first. It was not my report. it was a Customer who flew in croos country to make up his own mind. He brought his own cables and tried some of Mike’s. Tastes will vary, and so does system synergy. The test was done with blindfolds, so the gentleman and his wife picked what suited them best. There is no "tube thing" to deal with with Lampizator as they last a very, very long time. Only tube loss I ever had was a pair of dead vintage tubes rated at 10% (sold for display, not for audio) and they lasted for nearly a year until one failed! This is not a tube amp that puts a huge load on tubes. The point is taste and synergy matter and there is a lot of quality Dacs out there to choose from. Here is some feedback from a recent Golden Atlantic buyer:
=============================================== Sure! Tonally balanced but nice tight low end, lit from within very liquid sound in my system. Best DAC I’ve ever owned by a long shot. |
ctsooner, it seems you have your Mike’s mixed up. i’m Mike Lavigne, live in the Seattle area, and i have the room in a barn listed here on Audiogon. I’m just a listener, not a dealer. likely you have me confused with Mike Bovaird, of Audioshark and Suncoast Audio. not sure if Mr. Bovaird has had a Trinity dac in his system, but he could have. OTOH if you are ever in the neighborhood you are welcome to stop by for a listen......but i’m 3000 miles from Sarasota. :) |
So many don't fully understand how important servers and their connections really are. That's why it's so hard to do DAC shootouts etc..., plus personally I feel you need to have the DAC's in your system all warmed up for at least a week to tell what you really like. Cables, as I have said above are so important too. Mike, I'll stop by when I head to see my family in Sarasota that first week in April. I only know of one other store there and it's not as high end as yours. I have visited a store in Tampa once. Just not many B&M stores on the west coast of FL. That Trinity DAC has been one of my favorites for years now. I just can't afford one, lol. |
Thx Mike. So many choices and such a fast changing landscape. I like the looks of that server. I'm using a Lumin U-1 (with NAS) with my Chord Dave and it really improved the sound and functionality. I was really shocked at the improvement with the Lumin. The one you are using looks even better! Well I think I will just upgrade my speakers for now. :) |
wardl, understand that my preference includes the SGM music server, i’ve not listened to the Aqua Formula without it. but; with the SGM for my particular system i prefer the Aqua Formula to my much loved fully updated (actually new) Lampizator Golden Gate. where the DHT GG brings wonderful rich and colorful highlighting to vocals and lots of music, it does not do space or texture like the Formula. it is not as low in noise. in my system i prefer the presentation of the Formula. it is more ’of a piece’ with my vinyl and my system’s full range solidity. and the Formula is very natural and has wonderful tone and body. likely there are many systems and listeners which would prefer my Lampizator Golden Gate to the Formula. it's a system and taste matching question. my guess is that the Formula with the SGM server would be equal to the MSB DAC V Diamond, but maybe not the Select II. and the reason is the SMG’s optimization of HQ Player which will allow the RTR pcm dac of the Formula to still do dsd at a very high level. I owned the Trinity dac which I view as better than the MSB V. and I think the SGM + Formula is equal to the Trinity dac in my system. I hope that helps. |
mikelavigne do you prefer the Golden Gate Lampi or Aqua Formula? Also have you ever had the latest MSB Diamond in your system? I may be looking to upgrade in the not so distant future. Have a Chord Dave an an older (2013) MSB on hand. Can't really decide between them - Dave has more resolution, top to bottom control, MSB has more natural sound and overall warmer presentation. So the only solution is to sell them both and spend more! Was thinking of upgrading to the newest MSB DAC V Diamond with their high end clock which would cost more than the Aqua Formula. Or going a different route. Maybe I'll sell my Dave to the OP :) |
thanks Charles. the Formula is very natural sounding I agree. a question. the Aqua Formula has only been out for a short time. there is another Aqua dac which has tubes, the La Scala. the Formula is solid state. are you sure it was the Aqua Formula and not the La Scala that you heard? I've not heard the La Scala. |
Hello Mike, Congratulations on getting the Aqua Formula DAC. I had the opportunity to hear this DAC during an extended listening session last year and thought it was superb due primarily to its natural character. I can appreciate your happiness with it. The best compliment I can bestow on an audio component is to say it just simply makes music. Easier said than done, the Formula did this. Charles |
i’ve owned the Trinity dac and still own the Lampizator Golden Gate, which i’ve recently had upgraded to the newest 512dsd dac, plus the superclocks and the newest RTRpcm dac. last November i had a chance to do an extended demo of the SGM server, which is a super hot-rodded HQ Player optimized server. this was a big step up over my CAPSv4 server. then a month ago i had the chance to compare the GG on the SGM to 2 other dacs in my system, the Nagra HD dac with the optional power supply and output transformers, and the new Aqua Formula RTR pcm dac. loved the liquidity of the Nagra HD with the SGM, but the Aqua Formula ($14k USD list price) on the SGM was best in my system. the Formula is a space machine, very detailed, yet very mcro-dynamic and natural sounding with excellent timbre and textures. for me the biggest issue is it reminds me of my vinyl in terms of texture and detail more than other digital i’ve had. so I’ve purchased the SGM server and the Aqua Formula dac. btw; I have a 30 tb NAS with about 15 terabytes of music, half dsd and half pcm. i use HQ Player in the SGM server to upsample all my dsd to 384 dxd on the Formula dac. i love what the SGM server and Formula do on dsd. just thought i’d add this info as an additional data point. |
Hi you might be interested in this post on audio shark they compare the Ayre Qx 5, chord dave, Lampi, Berkeley Ref 2 http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=11309&page=4&p=193534&viewfull=1%23post193534 post number 35 |
Concur. The one word I would never use to describe the Ayre is edgy - it's super smooth. It continues to amaze me how many people still think that the preamp is not the lynchpin of any good system - running direct will never be better than running a top flight preamp. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that that is the case even in lower end systems - there are many cases in which running direct is better than using a poor preamp assuming the DAC is properly designed for running direct. I found my older Wadia to sound better direct except with top preamps - of course you had to keep it above 75 for the volume if running direct so as not to lose resolution. Definitely on the high end, it's been a pleasant surprise how much improvement has occurred in the last couple of years. It wasn't until my latest source setup that I finally became convinced that digital has *fully* arrived - I'm good, period. |
Edgy quality for the Ayre? How many hours did it have on it? The only time I've heard that word IRT the Ayre is when it didn't have about 500 hours on it. It does take that long to break in, but when it does, it's as musical as most any DAC regardless of cost. Not saying you didn't hear what you did as we all hear differently and like different devices, but you really caught me off guard when you used the word edgy. As I've said above, most DAC's are highly dependent on the quality of what they are fed (just like everything else, right). I once was in an audition of a few DAC's and the music they were using was pop/rock and highly compressed. Almost like AM radio, lol. The tube gear we listened to made the music sound it's best as it rolled off a bit on the upper octaves, however when you put on well recorded music, it was the other DAC's that sounded best. We also played with the cables and found that the overall best cables were the TotalDac cable and the AQ Diamond (we only used USB this day). I have loved both of those cables in my system. AQ being the most neutral of the two and the Totaldac is just a tad more open, but not quite as neutral in the mids where is gives a bit of a creamier texture. It was cool going back and forth between the two. I realize that we don't all have perfect recordings, lol. Things always depend on what you listen to and how you listen. The other major thing IRT digital and new DAC's is how will you set them up? How will you feed them? I have found that personally, I like the ethernet connection best. I am slowly putting together an optical wire converter to network and feed my Ayre via it's ethernet connection. I've heard it this way a few times and to my ears it had beaten every DAC I've had in the system that was USB only. Many of us have or are doing this and feel the same way. There are a few threads detailing these connections on Audiogon and other sites as well. I've never heard any DAC sound great when run without a true preamp. Even at the lower price points, you really need a good preamp to get the most out of your components. That's one of the few things IRT audio that most agree on. The other thing is that most of the DAC's being discussed in this thread are outstanding and leaps and bounds better than anything we could get just a few years ago. I assume that the DAC's will keep getting better and better as the newer chips become available. |
I had both the Chord Dave and Ayre Qx5-twenty for audition and I found the Dave to be the most pleasing through my Pass Labs Int60 /Magico S1MkII speakers. I did test the Dave bypassing my Preamp and it had a big drop in SQ with thin bass so perhaps this is what the other poster heard. The Ayre had a very edgy quality to it which I found detracting. Now I just need to get the funds for the Dave. |
Totaldac was brought up earlier and he said why pay that much when you can get the QX5/20 for so much less. It's great to bring up used DAC's, however they are not always available and he stated that he wanted new. Don't blame him a bit either. He also stated that Roon is very important to him, so he needs a DAC that will be a Roon endpoint, which the Ayre is. Are the other DAC's folks are suggesting also Roon endpoints? I"m sure some are, just am not up on all the DAC's that are. Just because we all like a component, he's asking for some specifics for his situation. Lot's of great choices for sure. Not sure if he wants to deal with the tube thing or not. I also noticed that most of the friends I have or posters I've seen post on Lampizator or other tube DAC's talk about changing out the stock tubes or other ones. Unless you are a tube roller, you probably don't want to bother going there, lol. I"ve done my share over the years with CJ, Audio Research, Aesthetix, Jadis, Quicksilver, DIY preamp, Audible Illusions, Cary, Marantz, Counterpoint and a few others. It was always a pain in the butt for me, lol. I never fully got the enjoyment out of it that others seem to. The only tube gear left is the Aestheix Rhea that I've decided to sell even though it just came back with a new, updated power section and tubes. I decided I like the Ayre so much, that I'm finally giving up the analog and will sell it all. Like I posted earlier, I also LOVE the new Brinkman DAC too. I will eventually get one in the house to A/B vs the Ayre. |
Forget about the Chord Dave or the Ayre QX-5 Twenty, I had them both but sold them for a French DAC Metronome C8 dual box for only $8000 purchased from Audiogon used but still a bargain considering the unit retail over $20K+...The Metronome C8 has both tube/solid state outputs via a simple switch and you could enjoy the best of both world! It is simply amazingly musical DAC with holographic 3D imaging that you could reach out and touch but the midrange is so natural so scary real...look for a used C8 or even better the Metronome C8+ DAC and you will be happy for a long long time... |
Just to show there's no best but just personal preferences / system synergy. Used my Dana USB cable on all DACsWhy? Should use the best matching cable? I had a Lampizator Atlantic in my system for 2 weeks and it's very very good ... most neutral Lampizator to my ear. Ultimately I prefer my more neutral and a touch more transparent ModWright Sony HAP-Z1ES. But if anyone needs a little tube magic, Atlantic would do the trick. |
Thanks for sharing. Have heard good things about Mike, but never knew where he was. I"m heading down to Lido, where my sister lives in a month or two. I"ll need to call him to meet him. Had no idea he had such nice products there. Did you ever hear the QX5 with the AQ Diamond or Cardas's top of the line? I've had many a cable with them over the last many months and noticed huge differences in sound. Personally, I've never heard it sound bright in the high end at all. That surprised me. As I posted, it's one of those products that I needed to listen to for a long time before I fully got it. I have only heard it sound ragged once and that was on a newer, non broken in one. I've personally never given a ton of listening to the tubed DAC's as I don't want to deal with tubes anymore. I liked the new Romulus a lot with stock tubes. Haven't heard the B7, but I'm sure it's awesome based on what you had it up against. Why did you change cables on the B7 and not the other DAC's that you listened to? Just curious as that plays a huge role in digital I feel. Bigger than interconnects as long as you are using top gear. |
Just to confuse the situation more, here is a BLIND 6.5 hour shootout at a Dealer's studio in Florida (audioshark). BLINDED Dac shootout with a Suncoast Audio customer in Florida
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Music, I wish you could take both home and listen for a few weeks. The OSDE/SE I used to use throws a bigger stage than the DAVE. It's the largest soundstage I've ever heard in a DAC regardless of cost. There is a HUGE thread about the DAC shootout that my friend started. He has had everything in his system other than the QX since it's so new. I chose the Empirical because of Matt's thread. I've gotten to know most of the bigger posters on that thread and we are in constant contact, so I like to believe I have a decent idea of how the DAC's all sound. Just because I like one, doesn't mean that you or anyone else will. T'hjat's the fun of audio, lol. When someone hears the Ayre initially, they may feel that another DAC throws a bigger stage or that another one is more resolving, however I found out, as I said above, this is not even close to being the case. The Ayre is giving you so much micro and macro detail, that you don't even notice it until you are days or even weeks into it. The reason for me is that I just melt into the music. If I had the funds, the only other DAC I'd get over it MAY be the Total DAC, but I also have found the 'digital hub' so easy and fun to use that I probably would still lean towards the Ayre, however I'm also a bit cheap, lol. What seems to set the Ayre apart is the fact that it uses what may be the best clock you can get in a device. Go check out the interview that Michael Lavorgna did with Charlie of Ayre. They discuss the clock they use and how expensive it is etc... That's one reason I believe it sounds so great with anything I've fed it. I use a rebuilt Mac Mini server that was built and used by Steve Nugent of Empirical audio at all his shows. He rebuilt the board, cut out anything that wasn't audio related and it uses an external Paul Hynes LPS. HE hand built the solid silver connecting cable to the Mac too. All my music is well recorded stuff for shows and much is hi rez up to 192. I have had this server up against nearly everything and it just sounds better. I also feed the Frontier cable box to the Ayre and it makes it sound the best I've ever heard and I used to use a reclocker on everything when I had the Empirical so I wasn't feeding it crap. Even the Marantz Blue Ray sounds excellent when I decide to play CD's through it. Unlike most, it gets the timbre of the music right. When I listen to my Basis TT, Benz cartridge and Rhea phono pre, running balanced through my AX5/20, with AQ Water cable, I relax into the music. I get the same feeling with the Ayre QX5/20. I think it's the clock and I also feel strongly that you get the macro and micro detail because of the low noise floor. They build the Ayre power filtration device directly into the DAC along with the double diamond circuits. Charlie Hansen, to me, is as good as a designer as we have in the business today. Some DAC's have great analog filtering and others have great digital filtering. Charlie has the funds and got the right folks in place to do both great. This is one area that he excels over the smaller companies. Chord is also great at this, but like I said, the biggest place the Ayre beats the Chord and by a fair amount it the quality and depth of the bass. I know I"m not the only one who feels this way. Owners of course will argue with me about this, but I promise you that when you go head to head, it's obvious. I have no dog in the fight and I've tried to share the differences as I and some others I listen with at time have heard between these two units. There is another thread on here about the QX5 where some folks have chosen the Ayre over the Dave and I know of two of the guys how have had both in their house to listen to and they said the Ayre just grew on them. Many products sound GREAT in the showroom or in your home as they do one or two things really great (or so it seems). I feel that one of the most difficult things that any component does is soundstage size. Some always throw a huge stage and to my ears , this is what Dave does. The problem arises when the stage wasn't recorded as big as what's being heard. That's all components and not just the DAC. Ayre seems to get the scale correct. I didn't have a recording available where I was there when it was produced, but I have spoken to someone who has done this test with numerous DAC's from Total to Ayre to EMM to Bricasti to DCS to Trinity to Berkley and the list goes on. He's pro reviewer and knows many producers. He said that Ayre just gets this part spot on and he owns Ayre amps because of this. Again, this isn't an ad for Ayre, lol. Some folks want other DAC's for many reasons and you may too, but I know it's not difficult to get a QX5 into your house to listen to. I do know there are a few Chord dealers around so it will depend on where you live. The other thing I personally won't do it buy a used DAC. Too many problems there potentially. I too want a new warrantee from a larger company who most probably will be around and who will have engineers who can always fix the product, unlike a smaller company where the owner can retire and you are screwed in 5 or more years. I've seen that way too often in this business. Chord isn't going to have that problem as they too are a good size company and not reliant on a staff of one or two. I do like buying products from US based companies when I can, because I live here and it's easier to get repairs done if needed. Yes, I've needed warrantee repairs on products from time to time. The other thing that I love about Ayre and why I own their AX5/20 and QX5/20 is because they upgrade their products and only charge minimal fees for upgrades depending on what they do. Their lifespan per product is at least 7 years (Vandersteen is similar in this regard) and to me, that's important. Well, that's way too much info and it's personal stuff for MY EAR's, lol. I also LOVE using Ayre link as I can use my universal remote control and it totally controls both Ayre components along with my blue ray, TV, Apple TV, Cable box etc.... YEs, I live with my wife and the kids visit and I need to have my system user friendly, plus I can also log in from wifi anywhere in the world to control the system (yes I've done this when my daughter was dog sitting for a week). You have chosen two of the best products in their price ranges. Both punch above their costs and offer totally different functionality and sound. You won't go wrong either way. |
ctsooner, thanks for the input on the Ayre QX5/20. The totaldac is out of my price range. I did see a used one for sale, but for me right now, I prefer to have new with warranty since it is such a huge investment for me. I really like the Ayre because it is one piece (saves on outlets and shelf space) and really does what I want to do, which is ditch the MacBook and use it as the core so I can use Roon. I worry about the Dave if it will sound as good on my system. At the audio store, OMG, it did sound amazing. Big decision for me, it is going to have to last me till the end. |
hgeifman, thanks for your input. I have heard the Ayre at one audio store and the Dave at another store. Of course each store prefers the one they sell. The Ayre had a smooth clean sound that I like but the Dave had the huge soundstage which I love and a little more detail. The Ayre also is Roon ready and will stream Tidal. I do not know which will sound better in my system. I am worried about the Dave with the equipment I have and I do not have a power conditioner or regenerator. |
wardl, thank you for the information. If I purchase the Dave, I will be using a MacBook pro with an AudioQuest Diamond USB cable. I also have a USB Disruptor. I would also be using at times a Rega Apollo R CD as a transport. I would use balanced cables from the Dave to my integrated amp which is the T + A 2500R. In your opinion, would this sound good? Since the Dave costs more than the Ayre, I would not be able to buy anything else for a while. I do have a dedicated circuit with an isolated ground. |
I have a Dave. If it helps, I found the sound over a two channel speaker system (I.e., not headphones) was notably inferior when the Dave was hooked direct to power amp. Thin, lack of warmth and bass. Sounded way better with linestage preamp (using boulder 2010/2060). Some may disagree - my system, my ears etc. That said, when I got it hooked up through my pre I found the Dave to be quite a bargain at its price hitting far above its weight class. Great little DAC. Two/three years ago you would have to spend a whole bunch more to get that performance. Haven't heard the other one you are looking at. Good luck. |