Down to two choices in DAC's, the Chord Dave or the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. Comes down to best sound or versatility and cost. Speakers are Wilson Audio Sasha's and amp is T+A 2500R. Love the versatility of the Ayre but the sound of the Chord Dave is phenomenal, not sure if the Ayre could compare. Not sure if the Chord would still sound as good without spending mass amounts on a power regenerator and power cable.
Wow, an old thread. Not sure what post was removed, but would love to have seen it, lol.
Update. I sold my QX5/20 and am using The Memory Player serve/streamer/Roon/DAC and analog volume control. It's funny as the player has been constantly upgraded with new software monthly and all new hardware since 2018. It's still the best sounding server I've ever heard. My buddy who writes for TAS also says it's his favorite one. He is getting the new Taiko Extreme in for a shootout so to speak, but he's had the other top servers in and still owns TMP as it sounds the best still with the upgrades. I had them add a DAC and analog control so I can run them balanced into my Vandersteen MH-HPA.
fun to go back and read about digital products that are a few years old now. Both Dave and QX5 are still outstanding.
On Oct 10th, I'll be taking delivery of an all in one The Memory Player by Sam Laufer's company. www.thememoryplayer.net He has updated his DAC offering in the player and souped it up big time. It's the best server I've ever heard by far and they upgrade it remotely on a constant basis as they learn more and more. Lowest Jitter of any that I've ever seen.
Not yet as I wanted a different DAC and Stealth caps as well as a few other things. As for TMP, I've heard it in a few systems now and it's crazy good as a server alone. Just very relaxed with incredible timing. It's by far the best digital I've heard to date.
The DAC is not a quad DAC and it will have special power supplies etc... All components will be within very tight tolerance's for sound staging etc... I'll be using HRS Nimbus footers and the Audioquest Hurricane and possibly upgrading to Dragon as the Dragon upgrade on a source is the biggest bang for the buck. We are shooting for the second week in Sept as I'm not in a hurry.
And for many of us, it's just better tonally. Dave is nice as you said, but from top to bottom, the QX5/20 is a better DAC and not just for cost savings. I do like and have owned Chord products, so I'm in no way putting them down at all. All companies have strengths and weaknesses. they all have to make compromises when designing.
We all just need to figure out what he can compromise on, lol. Thanks for sharing.
I own the Ayre QX-5 Twenty. And I have heard DAVE three times in local meet ups. They are both great DACs. Ayre comes with an excellent streamer, and it’s significantly cheaper.
jymc. What's your point? I don't think I fully understand your point. This is high end audio and of course we buy adn love then sell and miss, but are glad we changed gear. This is teh component side of audio.
None of us are saying we are keeping the digital gear for years. As for obsolete, my new server/DAC is fully upgradable adn will continue to be. Most of the upgrades are software driven and the hardware has been upgraded, but folks who have owned original ones for well over 14 years to more have had the upgrades done at very fair costs based on what I can tell. Things change and hopefully do get better over time. I've sent gear back to Ayre for upgrades a few times and loves what they did and the prices were far less than I thought they would be. I've had friends over teh years send gear back to Vandersteen and felt they to the same value out of it. There are plenty of companies who do this, so they may become obsolete, but not for well over a 10 year lifespan.
Making the comment you do is also a value judgement or am I reading your post wrong. I honestly can't tell, sorry. Thanks.
I can only chuckle at the "authoritative" comments I read when evaluating luxury 2 channel audio electronics. All electronics will have their particular sound signature. While I may lean toward analytical detail and you prefer warm and lush, I truly doubt there are any responsibly assembled $75k 2 channel systems that each of you above could not easily live with for the rest of your lives. The differences each of us hear in system A or B are merely individual perceptual differences.....whether or not a particular difference is more musical than the other is purely a matter of subjective preference.
Hint hint.....spend you big money on speakers, amps, preamps, turn tables, linear power supplies......these items could serve you well for decades. Show me someone who is spending ridiculously high 4 figures on digital storage, streaming, etc gear that will be totally obsolete in 3 years and I'll quickly chase him down to sell a bridge to.
Well, it looks like I'll be selling the QX5. I still love it and may keep it just for the great headphone amp as I listen a bit to some very high end IEM's and also a top ZMF can. The Memory Player should be here in a week or so and I had the DAC installed internally. It was time to simplify things as well as upgrade the sound quality. Very excited. I'm shocked that more people aren't going with TMP. Their advances in lowering jitter and their defragmenting hard drive are leaps and bounds better than what's out there. it's in a different league than any other server on the market.
Both DACs are very, very good. But each will sound differently with any different system. You need to either borrow a store DAC with your system, or listen to either with a system that is as close as yours.
This has nothing to do with sound quality but in my research looks to be a bigger and bigger issue: the QX-5 Twenty lacks an HDMI input. Most Blu-ray players that support SACD discs, including players from Sony and Oppo, can only transmit DSD from SACDs via HDMI. As the QX-5 Twenty lacks HDMI… you're out of luck playing DSD except from files on a computer via USB. It remains to be seen how big a real world issue that proves to be, but for me on a recent audition it meant no DSD for me. see: showbox & kodi
Musicfx, nice to hear of your improvements with the new Ethernet cables. I just ordered a AQVOX SE switch with AQVOX cables. T+A is planing to include Deezer in a upcoming firmware. I thought Deezer was already implemented when I purchased the MP3100 per stated in their website. Tidal sound very good but I like Lumin U1 better feeding the MP3100 via AES. Also the Lumin app offers a little more functionality.
I strongly recommend to do a preliminary test with other dacs other than Aurender. I am experiencing USB sync connection issues with Lumin U1 and Melco
N1ZH/2 (latest firmware v 3.72). Still working with support in trying to fix them. I believe that USB compatibility on the MP3100 is still very limited when compared to the PDP3000.
The CX feeding the MP is a really interesting combination. Truly looking forward to your impressions and findings once the components and the updates are settled.
I will soon be using my MP3100HV with the new Antipodes CX. I decided on this for a change than getting an Aurender N10. Want to use Roon. T+A says an update will be available shortly to update the MP3100HV to be Roon Ready. Just updated Ethernet cables to the MP with Transparent high performance Ethernet cables and put the MP3100 on Rollerblocks 2+ on top of a Symposium Acoustics Svelte Plus platform. Really sounds good.
@czubero, As you noted, experiencing random signal drop outs with Tidal is an issue when listing to music.
I also upgraded my ISP cable speed from 100Mbps to 250Mbps and have had no problems since with Tidal Streaming. I cannot prove this but I wonder if the Apple Airport Extreme Router (my old router) had issues handling the streaming speed used by Tidal. I also believe that the faster cable speed helped. And, of course, my Netflix movies load much faster now. Are most routers capable of handling the streaming speeds used by Tidal (is yours)? I do not know.
Successful Tidal Streaming REQUIRES ALL your devices that connect to the Internet to be working perfectly. This include the router, switch boxes, modems and the ISP connection (junction boxes, cable signal range, amplifiers, etc). It seems, unfortunately, I have had issues with most everything down stream.
If you are having issues using Tidal Streaming (Random signal dropouts), I suggest you review these many components to ensure they are working okay. And, yes, most likely, you will need to contact your ISP to ensure the cable speed is okay, the cable signal strength is within its required range, etc. My ISP, Wave Broadband, was very helpful ensuring the service was working for me.
My Tidal Streaming problems were first identified when I called my ISP and reported the signal dropouts. In less than 5 minutes, he said my cable signal was out of the specified range and need to be adjusted by their Technician. Once he arrived, he identified many more external hardware problems that he repaired by replacing the junction box and signal amplifier. I suggest you call your ISP and request they check your cable signal range and other components as needed. I hope this helps.
Thank You musicfx and
hgeifman
for such valuable information. The last few weeks I was experiencing random signal drop out with tidal using Lumin U1 or Melco. I am also planning to compare Deezer to Tidal on the MP3100. Both stream in flac
@czubero, For the very BEST Tidal Steaming sound quality, you have to connect your MP3100HV to your router using a wired ETHERNET Connection. In addition, several people on Audiogon have reported signal problems when streaming Tidal.
In my case, my Linksys router could NOT handle the streaming speed and was dropping packets (not good). In addition, I also discovered I had an out of range cable signal from my ISP and several other ISP related hardware issues that they immediately fixed. My point is your Internet connection might require some fine tuning in order to get a strong Tidal signal.
My new Luxul router is working fine and Tidal has no signal related issues. Tidal Steaming offers excellent sound quality and a very good selection of albums.
Congratulations! I connect it through Ethernet. For me this sounds much better. Tidal sounds better through the MP3100HV than using Amarra with my MacBook with an AQ Diamond USB. It also sounded better through the MP3100HV than the Aurender A10, even when using MQA with the Aurender. I sold the Aurender. CD’s sound really really good with the MP3100HV. Have all High Fidelity cables and an HFC MC-6 hemisphere and my system sounds the best ever. Enjoy the MP31000HV.
Musicfx, finally pulled the trigger on the MP3100HV. Do you connect it to your router via wifi or Ethernet? Have you compare SQ on both connections? Thanks in advance.
Hi Musicfx, this was a response from T+A support I would like to share, in certain way match your findings:
"with
both devices you have a very good performance. The sound quality of
both devices is nearly the same! If you don’t need
a streaming client unit for internet radio or/and playing audio files
from a USB HDD or NAS server and if a very heavy and high quality
CD-tray mechanism is important for you, then I want to recommend
PDP3000HV. If the streaming client function is more important
for you than a very heavy tray mechanism, then I want to recommend
MP3100HV. Of course MP3100HV supports a high quality tray mechanism too,
but a bit more light construction than PDP3000HV.
I hope, these informations are helpful. If you have some more questions, don’t hesitate to contact me again."
Hi Musicfx, Wow, Nice speakers those Alexias. I have heard them about a year ago with Accuphase separates. One of the best sound I have ever heard, very balanced and precise sound from top to bottom, at that time my friend used valhalla 2 speaker cables with the Alexias. The reason I went with Sopras No 3 is because I like them how beautiful they sounded with Hegel and the nice discount I got from the Dealer. Thank You
Update on servers...The Memory Player is the player that's now in the lead on the Best DAC for CD thread. Matt, who is the OP and has kept the thread going for a few years now just bought it. I will probably also get it. Just alot of amazing servers and DAC's out there in all price ranges.
Hi czubero I use the PA 3000HV to power Wilson Audio Alexia’s. No problems here, sounds great. Can definitely put cracks in the walls if I wanted. As far as Tidal playback, it is so dynamic & detailed. Really impressive. Excellent recoded SACD’s sound really really good, just different than Tidal. With the Alexia’s I prefer Tidal over most CD’s. With my Sasha’s, they both sounded really good. I believe the Alexia’s are just more revealing.
Hi Musicfx, I double read your post and realized how much you like Tidal playback in the MP3100. Is Tidal playback better than CD playback in this MP3100?
Musicfx, Thank you for your post and response. I could only compare the PA3100 with my previously owned Hegel H30. I noticed an improvement over the H30, Blacker background, better soundstage and more tube like sound emerge from the PA3100. It has helped to calm down a bit the tweeters of my Sopras. I also purchased the signal processor module which i set up to minimize the low medium bass emphasis on the Sopras. I have not notice any coloration or soundstage degradation in the sound when the signal processor module is connected. I was also suprised in how good this Amp drive the Big sopras at medium/high volumes, extremely well controlled when compared to the H30.
Hi czubero, the PDP3000 to me sounded slightly better than the MP 3100 for SACD & CD playback. Aside from slightly better CD playback, using it as a DAC, they both sounded similar to me. I still prefer the MP 31000 and bought it instead. It is more versatile. Love it. The PDP did not work well with my Aurender A10. The MP 3100 works seamlessly with the Aurender. I sold the A10 and was going to upgrade to the Aurender N10 but Tidal sounds so good using only the MP3100 I do not think I will. My original goal was to have amazing sound from Tidal & I am very happy with the MP 3100HV in achieving this. I am currently debating on whether or not to change my PA 3000HV for the PA 3100 (& one day get the PS 3100) - or - buy demos of the HV separate amp and pre amp. How do you like your PA 3100? Do you think the PS 3100 makes much of a difference adding it?
Hi Musicfx, Are you still enjoying your MP3100? I recently purchased the PA3100/PS3100 , my DAC is the LIODAC2.0 (DHT). I would like to use the LUMIN AES output on the MP3100, but you mentioned that the PDP3000 is a better monster. Look to your comments
I can honestly say the N10 is the best server I've heard to date and that includes some of the mega computer based servers. I have a buddy who is doing a shoot out of servers and has had everything from Boulder down in his room and said the N10 is easily the one to get.
I have heard the Dave a few more times with the N10 and it just doesn't have the bass that the Ayre does. It's got a beautiful mid range and the top end is nice too and never fatiguing. I do like the Brinkmann better though as well as a few others. Again, at this price point there are very good DAC's with different flavors. I own an am about to sell the Chord Mojo. I'm also into personal audio. I looked at getting the Hugo 2 and instead went with the Astell n Krell 380copper and amp.
Probably just not my cup of tea, but obviously yours which is cool.
Scott, I tried a T+A PDP 3000 CD/DAC in my system. SACD’s and CD’s NEVER sounded better. It was alive, crazy, you would forget to breathe when listening to it. It was the sound I wanted. I had problems with using the Aurender with it. I had to power the Aurender down and restart it for the PDP 3000 to recognize it. It worked well with my MacBookPro. After it was gone, I missed that sound. I then changed the DAVE & my CD transport for T+A’s newest music player, the MP 3100hv to match my T+A amp. CD’s, especially SACD’s sound great, but not as great as the PDP 3000, but much better than my previous set up. The MP 3100 works well with the Aurender. With MQA on the Aurender the sound is very similar to the MP3100 with slightly less dynamics. There was a huge difference with the DAVE & I always switched back to the DAVE. DAVE sounded great with every level of resolution. The MP 3100hv has more dynamics, better bass & is more analog sounding than the DAVE. The DAVE has a bigger soundstage, has more detail, is clearer and has a darker background. Also, the Aurender iPad app is superior to T+A’s. I am very happy with my system now, however, I miss the big soundstage, massive detail and more than anything, the almost eerie like vocals of the DAVE (& the great headphone amp on the DAVE). My T+A amp has a headphone amp but the DAVE’s is FAR superior. If I had to do it all over again, I would of kept the DAVE, changed the Aurender to the N10 and tried some different cables.
Thanks for the update MusicFx. That's encouraging to hear. I already have the A10 but I know the DAC section could be improved upon. Juts curious as to why you sold your DAVE DAC (a comment you made in another thread)?
Scott, with the Dave DAC, you can listen to it for hours, wide soundstage, amazing often eerie vocals & detail. When I try the Aurender, I have to go back to the Dave. The Dave is great with all resolutions of music. You do not need MQA with it. I changed the power cable on my amp to a HF Reveal and the Aurender DAC sounds much much better. I have another DAC / music player (more musical, more analog, less analytical, less detail than the Dave) which is more expensive than the Dave by almost double and the Aurender sounds very similar to it in A/B comparisons when using Tidal at low to mid volume levels. The Dave and the Aurender work flawlessly together.
Glad you are enjoying the Dave. Now that I've upgraded my speakers to the Vandersteen Quatro CT (painted not the wood), I've noticed even more detail and dynamics from the QX5/20. It's still not quite as dynamic as my old Empirical Audio OSDE/SE, but it's much more musical. The bass on it is sick. When I got it, I still had the Treo's and the bass was so much better than I had heard through the Treo's. With the built in subs in the Quatro's, the Ayre is killer. There was one passage of an orchestra (sorry, I have a lot of 24/192 music of all genre's so I just listen, but I don't know who I was listening to) that had tympani. I never heard it through the Treo's as it's really low. It was there in spades (this is the second song I listened to that I heard tympani drums were I either never heard it or it was faint). You could hear each drum and the tone and you could here each head stroke and the sound differences. We were amazed at this. I will be using that passage with other equipment when I try things out.
I have heard the Brinkmann once and was very impressed. I think that will also be in the discussion for folks. It's funny as we all like totally different things. I think the Dave sounds great as I've said and I'd own one if I didn't have what I have. I wanted everything the Ayre put into it, but I love the look. It's a perfect match for my AX5/20, lol. I don't think the Dave is ugly by any means, but for me, I like the Ayre look better. I know many who like the look of the Chord products better. Glad that you listened and got what you liked best. That's what it's all about. :)
rshad000, I bought the Dave over the Ayre and I am still happy I did. The Ayre is smooth and clean and you can listen for a long time with no fatigue. Excellent DAC for sure. I personally did not like the look of the Ayre and it just does not look as clean and classy as the rest of my equipment. The Dave gives you more of everything...more detail, bigger soundstage, often eerie vocals that I love. It is definitely more engaging. Still love my vinyl set up more, but when I listen to digital, the Dave is special & different than my other DAC's. Not better or worse than vinyl, different. My High Fidelity Reveal magnetic cables also seemed to take it to another level. I also preferred using the Aurender and Aurender App over Roon. Just seems to sound better. The Aurender works flawlessly. I was so tired of MacBook Pro and Amarra issues, especially with every update.
Are you still happy with your Dave and Aurender setup? I'm looking at both DACs(QX5 and Dave) as well but leaning towards the qx5 since I have a 5 series Ayre pre and amplifier.
I personally like the steampunk look of the Dave though.
Welcome to the thread. Yes, we've discussed the network input. To me, it sounds it's best when fed via the optical converter with a good LPS on the DAC side of things.
I am an Ayre dealer. One great feature of the QX-5 is the network input. This is the way I demo. I use a high end network extender with a Cardas network cable straight into the back of the QX-5. Then I use Roon from a laptop in the back of the room. I am not sure anyone talked about this important aspect of the Ayre DAC. Oh and all of the spdif inputs are excellent as they use a type of buffer...
I'd never use a digital pre. The Ayre's digital pre is about as good as I've heard and it's still not even close to using the pre on my AX5/20. I've had the Dave in my own system a couple of times and I've listened with borrowed LCD3's and the top Hifiman can's (don't love them like so many do). I like the headphone amp on the Ayre much better. It's just a more coherent sound than the Dave IRT to the bass. I've spoken to a couple of DAC designers now and they feel the same way. I love the Totaldac and if it was money no object and I had a set of Vandersteen 7's with reference amps/pre, then I'd get the Totaldac that is twice the price of the Ayre and much more expensive than the Dave. Again, I think it's a great product and whoever owns one will love it for a long time, but to ME, the Ayre gives me similar great mids and highs along with deeper and just as musical bass. I could have afforded the Dave and that's why it was in the house. It has a certain charm about it that most other just done. Honestly, I like the Ayre, TotalDac, Dave, Trinity ref and a few others better than I like the Rossini. The Rossini to me, like all the DCS DAC's are a tad dry. Accurate as heck and excellent DAC's (better be for that money), but they are not as musical to MY EARS as a Dave or QX5/20 or TotalDac. I know that I"m not the only one who feels this way either.
You mentioned in this thread that you liked the DAVE midrange and top end, but felt the bass was not the last word. Are you comparing the bass from the Digital Pre through a two channel set up or are you evaluating it through headphones?
I'm sure you will love the Dave. Been using the headphones with the QX5 as I wait for my speaker to ship this week. Best headphone amp I"ve heard by far and I've heard the TOL Woo amps, I just sold off my STax Lambda's (have a portable amp for them if anyone has interest, lol). Unfolding the first layer of MQA should make a nice difference as I stream a ton of Tidal.
Funny as I have a friend who just got the QX5 over the Dave. He spent two weeks with both in his house and felt the QX was just overall better, especially in the bass which is the difference I have heard. We all hear differently so Im' sure you liked the sound of the Dave over the Ayre. Enjoy :)
Just found out the Ayre QX5 Twenty is releasing an update this week with full MQA decoding & I just bought the Dave and an Aurender. Oh well, I hope I am happy with that, could have saved money though.
Why would anyone use another HP amp with it? It's the best HP amp I've ever used. I've heard it balanced once as I don't personally have balanced cables yet for my IEM's, but I love it though the single ended jack. They took painstaking time and effort to make the amp and they had nearly carte blanch when designing it. It's truly a word class HP amp that eventually should get it's due. The Codex has a really nice HP amp, but this one is leaps and bounds above that. I like it much better than any of the Woo amps, that I feel are very good amps.
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