Hudson Hifi has some reasonably priced isolation and stabilization products.
Cheap Speaker "Isolation" Solution for 300 lb. Speaker
Good Afternoon All,
I am looking for advice on a cheap and simple isolation solution for large, heavy (325 lb. each) floorstanding speakers.
I've read much advice on granite or marble slabs, multiple layers of cork, springs, etc; while this has been helpful, it is neither a cheap or simple solution.
Ultimately, I am looking to protect my wood floor from damage these very heavy speakers might do, as well as decouple the speaker from the floor in order to reduce bass resonance (I am in an apartment complex and worry about noise complaints). I've looked into sorbothane pads, but they never seem to be able to hold this much weight.
Thanks!
I am looking for advice on a cheap and simple isolation solution for large, heavy (325 lb. each) floorstanding speakers.
I've read much advice on granite or marble slabs, multiple layers of cork, springs, etc; while this has been helpful, it is neither a cheap or simple solution.
Ultimately, I am looking to protect my wood floor from damage these very heavy speakers might do, as well as decouple the speaker from the floor in order to reduce bass resonance (I am in an apartment complex and worry about noise complaints). I've looked into sorbothane pads, but they never seem to be able to hold this much weight.
Thanks!
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If you're serious, search eBay for springs. Ones you want will be about 2-3" diameter and compress to about 2" high under a 115lb load. This will be the dirt cheap solution, yet about a million times better than what you're doing now. If you don't want the speakers raised that much then make a platform and put the springs in the corners, in other words copy Townshend Podiums. This is what I did as proof of concept. Works real good. Or just buy 4 sets of Nobsound. Four sets will easily support 460lb speakers. Way easier. Of course if you do Podiums that will be the best by far. But even Nobsound will be better than what you're doing now. |
UM...Hee hee, I never stated the weight of the "speaker/s" I was at that time working with. "Oop's" Sorry! But they happened to be, (460lb.) each with a, (21" x 24-1/2") footprint and (94") tall (Line-Source) array's. I am not sure that "Optimum" is the word which I would use to describe your "'Trampoline" config. with those numbers. Unless maybe I had a really, REALLY intense fetish for "Bungee"! But alas, I do not... |
Trampoline is optimum. I've built two. One for my turntable and second for SVS SB-2000 pro. They are amazing. Requires some trial and error. The tramp must end up causing item to "hover" inside rack. I've used high strength bungees but it must be free enough to sort of "bounce" within frame. So for these 300 lb speakers the frame would need to exceed the footprint of speaker, and the frame must be both big enough and strong enough to weave sufficient bungees through holes in wall of frame. I used a box with books to replicate both size and weight of sub BEFORE my delivery arrived. At 300 lbs you would need four people to place the speaker onto the trampoline. It will probably tilt in one direction which will require some rearrangement of bungees. A cross weave both front to back and side to side can be accomplished with a solid length of bungee woven back and forth under and over each strand. Slider feet under frame allows the item to be slid with effort but at least you won't have to remove speaker to toe in or whatever. Your fellow tenants will bless you AND (more importantly) those speakers will sound amazingly better. Plus all the vibration shaking your other gear will be greatly diminished. |
I am wondering if the, "O.P." ever had any luck. I have had the same problem with heavy speakers. Sorbothane "will" actually work. But you may want to contact the manufacturer directly for a baseline of recommended shapes, type/rating and etc.. "I have, several times". They were not difficult to work with. But their answers left me at times with just many more questions, especially upon further reflection. I have used the (50/70) Durometer rated pads, (6" x 6") X 3pcs. at 1" thick. "Which brings the Natural Frequency down to about 10Hz. according to the manufacturer". "Or so I was told" I was also told that these particular pads were orig. designed for autobody to chassis isolation. Which made sense. They came with documentation and were rated at (1500-2500Lbs.) per pad. "When calculating for this type of application the objects weight plus the, (Inertial force of mass, AT load), and also force vectoring must be taken into consideration". Not just a speaker's given "dead weight". Otherwise, the Sorbothane will tend to simply disintegrate during it's very brief and tortured lifespan. Anyway, I achieved what I'll call, "Mixed Results" at best. I ended up placing all of the pads behind bass transducers in sealed cabinets which did work well at reducing resonance and interior reflections. |
teo_audio You added to my original screed, which maligned its interpretation and meaning. I said: The thing that is closest to equivalence of final result when using the diamond dampers, is a precision/lab grade anti-vibration wideband safe table. Ie, indicating that the safe table, to compare with..should also be of a wideband nature, as in wide frequency bandwidth of isolation. The natural tuning frequency of the dampers is 2hz. They move closer and closer to that ideal with regard to being a excellent lossy spring, as the load or mass per sq inch increases. Which is the why of the recommendation of using a cone on the bottom of smaller lighter gear. More pressure in a smaller area, with the attendant curving in of the surface and material, toward the tip of the cone...which enables the same effect, with a lossy characteristic in multiple directions, instead of just the vertical. If one pushes down on the corner of lets say a preamp, and the premap is on round tipped cones (read: not razor sharp), with the cone tips centered on the damping pads (large side of the cones blu-tacked to the preamp chassis), and then one lets go of the corner, they get pretty well one half cycle of motion in the preamp. Or (to clarify), if one tries to ’bounce’ (Up-down, left-right, front-back) the preamp, in any way or any rate of acceleration, when it is on the damping pads (with said cones), they get pretty well just the single damped half cycle. (return to center) |
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Speaking of Diamonds there are the Shun Mook Diamond Resonators to consider. Nothing transfers energy faster than diamond. Yes, I know what you’re thinking: why would you want something resonating in the room? http://www.shunmook.com/hifiproduct_2.html |
Let the record show no one has come up with anything to challenge the trampoline. Super balls run in fear. Herbie's glide off into dark corners to hide. No amount of diamonds, springs, racquet or tennis balls can match the awesomeness of the trampoline. Granted this is only because the Nimbus is no longer made. Sigh. Those were the days.... |
these work great: https://www.svsound.com/products/soundpath-subwoofer-isolation-system |
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I agree with you however, some of these suggestions, balls, orange juice tops, are a little absurd. This cat was talking 300 lb speakers. The shear physics to accomplish true isolation is not as easy as one thinks. I have been down this road. I don't care if he uses Isoacoustics or not. The guy lives in an apartment, can you imagine the reverberation? LOL Placing a disc underneath the spike is not isolating anything. Here's an idea and it will work better than any of the suggestions. And its free! Cut some cardboard squares (nice for the decor) stack several of them together and walla! Just make sure you stack enough of them because the spikes will work their way through, just as they would do with those nifty looking pads... |
I'm going to have to disagree with the assertion that one must spend an inordinate amount of money in order to achieve some isolation benefit. It certainly doesn't cost IsoAcoustics $1,000+ to make isolation feet and neither should it have to for us. Their products are attractive and I'm sure certainly beneficial, but if I can get 95% of the effect for 5% of the cost, I'm going to take that risk. Even in high-end systems where money is being parted with quite liberally, there are limits lol |
It is pretty comical. Your either into this or not. You don't cut corners because true audio fanatics can never live with cut corners. This hobby or obsession has to be done sometimes incrementally. Wait until you can afford the proper application. This comes from experience. Some of those experiences not so good. Because I tried to save money and used some unintended substitute. But I must say, never any kind of ball was involved with my gear! |
Love the hockey pucks. Muck like @insearchofprat, I am using balls - albeit street hockey balls. (when in Canada...) One on each corner, I cut "donuts" out of MDF, plopped the bright orange street hockey balls into them, put speakers on top and they work quite well! Was concerned about using tennis balls as the speakers are just over 100lbs. Thought about a LOT of racket ball balls, but didn't feel like having to cut out all those holes for them Next, I'm going to try a spring loaded platform to see what if any benefit can be had. |
Scorndefeat, yes the Gaia's have a rubber bottom. Its mounted and recessed around the the entire circumference of the Gaia. They are solidly built. And they look cool! You cannot just slide the speaker once they are installed. They really grab the floor, I used a piece of carpet to get them in place. Well made product but as I mentioned, not cheap. They come with 4 different size shafts that are inter-changeable. Its all relative as to how much you have into your speakers. I still don't know what speakers that cat has? 300lbs I'm curious what they are? If they weigh that much I can't imaging that they are cheap? |
“You can try these Pads can are good up to 60 lbs per square inch. thats 960 lbs per individual pad. 4 PACK ANTI VIBRATION PADS ISOLATION DAMPENER SUPER HEAVY DUTY BLUE 4x4x7/8 | eBay I have used these under speakers and to also isolate my TT free shipping also 2 packs should be enough for both speakers at a cost of $26.00” These are good products and you can get them with cork instead of plastic in the middle, and I use them everywhere damping is needed, e.g. clothes dryer, garage air compressor, heavy isolation transformer, and my subwoofer. A word of caution is they’ll leave black streak marks if placed directly on light hardwood floors and loaded with heavy objects. If you decide to go this route, make sure you place a thin layer of something like plastic wrap between them and the wood floor. |
a pm might be in order but for the record, about $150 for the 12 pieces, in this case. This is the only time I’ve pushed this product. We tend to like to keep it on the quiet side so we can use it to make audio miracles - where no one can understand how they came about. Think of it as a secret weapon made public. It started snowing crazy levels of big fluffy ones, right now, and I just happened to be listening to... |
What would the price point be for a 12-pack of the Teo Audio diamond dampers? Jakesnak, the hockey puck idea is believable; I played hockey and certainly know how resilient that 6 oz of vulcanized rubber can be! As you own the Gaia's, is it indeed rubber sandwiched in there that's creating the positive isolation effect with the Gaia's? |
The Teo Audio diamond isolators don’t exactly look robust, but the description certainly fits the bill, as I absolutely need the bass dampening considering my apartment situation. The site doesn’t describe much though, I can’t find info on the max load weight per pad or the price on these. Somewhere around 100-125lbs per pad is when they are at their optimal, as in the entire pad is being used. On both sides, with flat connectivity to the two full surfaces of the pad. The way to use them with light audio gear is to spike/cone the gear and then place the center of the dull tipped cone (do not want to rip the material) in the center of the pad. And then you have maximum force in a small part of the pad. This gives a nice xyz type of damping effect, overall (the surface of the pad curves in and captures the cone tip) , and the preamp, cd player, etc, will be 2hz lossy spring damped. From both sides, essentially. Isolation and damping, combined. sorbothane? No. Left that stuff in the ditch over 25 years ago, never looked back. FYI, Taras, the other half of Teo Audio, his professional or day job, is doing world class acoustics and mechanical isolation, etc work. He’s the guy the best firm in Toronto calls in as the cooler for jobs they can’t tame. The firm who calls him in is probably the most original and oldest running company on the planet in taming all the known forms of mechanical and acoustical noise. Taras has done the acoustics on about 60 films and there is near a 100% chance that most of the readers here have heard his work, as some of the jobs are permanent acoustics installs for recording studios (Film, TV, etc). He’s taken on jobs that the best in acoustics refuse to touch --and walk away from. Their record (other acoustics firms) is one of not offering refunds for failed jobs (contracts state zero guarantees) and Taras always guarantees his work. If that does not say ’absolute unit’ in the world of acoustics, I don’t know what does. So good that the NRC can’t touch his skill set. 100% serious here. What I’m trying to say, is, that we say - the pads work. And that’s what stands behind the statement. A hard damper like a magnetic one, or even done with elastic stranding, or springs of some sort... with hard shiny aluminum attachment... does not damp anything, really, it merely isolates. The diamond dampers (just a convenient marketing name) works from both sides. It damps the connectivity to the given surface, so it isolates and it damps the device that is sitting on the pads with something analogous to their primary isolation function. double duty. It is incredibly effective, and quite correct in what it does. The problem comes when people are so used to gear with noisy chassis that they’ve tuned their hearing and their system design/build/choices to the sound of rattly noisy gear with poor isolation. So they try the dampers and some say the sound is too dulled. And we have to agree and go along with that... rather than state the obvious prior point. Which is... ’go back to the start of the entire endeavor and set off on the correct foot from the get-go’. As one now has a better noise floor which means a better and greater dynamic range, so one is listening to less noise, noise that was previously mistaken for being signal. Ouch. The upside is that the door is open for better. Discernment is required. In the case of this very large and heavy speaker, a total of 12 pads might be in order. Six per speaker might be the trick. Isolation will be the result with a side order of a bit of noise removal from the speaker cabinet. |
I get it, the Gaia's are expensive. Here's another thought, never tried them. Hockey pucks...Not expensive from Amazon. I would drill a small hole in the center of the puck. Use a gauge to make sure the depth is consistent. Not too deep, maybe.25"... This way the spike seeds itself into the rubber. Theoretically it should work. And it will not look BAD...What speakers do you have???? |
I know you are gonna laugh BUT: for isolation under my 85lb speakers (Gershman Avant Garde RX-20), I am using tennis balls inside Tropicana Orange Juice bottle tops! - 4 per speaker (one in each corner). As long as your speaker bottoms are flat - for your speaker weight - I'd experiment with a muffin tin (12slots) with new tennis balls (colors your choice). Your speakers will look like they are on something Post-Modern, designed for a Portland Oregon municipal building in the 90's... I am sure that die-hard long time audiophiles - wordsmiths all - who contribute one-liners or tomes, should bring a chuckle in reply to my suggestion... But it works for me. Good Luck to you - and don't be afraid to experiment... |
alucard19, the price is certainly right on those pads! For that price, can't hurt to try em. Not high on the physical appeal value, but function is function. The Gaia line of isolators looks great but I just cannot justify spending that kind of money for isolation feet, regardless of how effective they are. I just don't have the budget for it. The Teo Audio diamond isolators don't exactly look robust, but the description certainly fits the bill, as I absolutely need the bass dampening considering my apartment situation. The site doesn't describe much though, I can't find info on the max load weight per pad or the price on these. |
You can try these
Pads can are good up to 60 lbs per square inch. thats 960 lbs per individual pad.
4 PACK ANTI VIBRATION PADS ISOLATION DAMPENER SUPER HEAVY DUTY BLUE 4x4x7/8 | eBay I have used these under speakers and to also isolate my TT free shipping also 2 packs should be enough for both speakers at a cost of $26.00 |
The dampers from teo audio are world class. Big time. Put them up against anything, in a technical and test oriented set up, and in a sound quality test, and they will win out in all ways and areas of testing. Go ahead, call me on it. Test them to your hearts content. Good luck with that. :) When one of those pads is loaded with about 45lb per square inch, that is just perfect ...and it acts like 2hz damped spring/buckling isolator. I can take one and drop it on its edge and it will bounce like crazy. When I drop it flat... it just goes ’splat!’ and stops. I can make a video to illustrate. In the earliest example of their use...Mark Doehmann of continuum (at the time) had a chance to play with them when their turntable was first introduced at the NYC show.... and he thought they were pretty dang special. If people want we can have people pay $500 for them by adding the jewelry part and hiding the damping material inside... but that would be less than honest in my book. |
Thanks all for the suggestions thus far. Herbie's products seem to be sensible thus far, the gliders adding a nice mobility element to it all. The Gaia Titans look like a solution, as well....alas, I'm not quite at the level where I can spend $2,500 on isolation feet. Speaking back to sorbothane, I found these: https://www.amazon.com/Isolate-Sorbothane-Vibration-Isolation-Circular/dp/B0042U8P9C/ref=mp_s_a_1_12... Looks like these can handle the weight. Anybody have experience with them? Thanks! |