Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!

Elizabeth
Thank you so much for the woodworking lessons! Seems I know not much about wood at all.
The links to the two sites are extremely useful.
Cocobolo is very well regarded by aftermarket turntable plinth manufacturers I know and now I see why quite so pricey.
However compared to some of the money I have wasted in the past a couple dozen pen blanks is not going to break the bank.

Sort of like Tuneland
But without MG...
And a bit more cred.....
😇😇

Wood you believe I’m using something quite similar for the base of my new tiny little bowl acoustic resonators. I use crystal for the catalyst. I have a fondness for Gabon ebony, rosewood, walnut and maple. There is a fine line between resonance control and tuning.

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
vibration isolation & resonance control

One area I draw the line at though with any equipment tuning is removing casework or relocating power supplies, transformers etc.

Going to see if can find any larger chunks of wood as I do have a very good table saw in the workshop. Might be more cost effective.

So just the difference in size of the blanks had an audible impact?
Interesting.
I have on the way to me ;
Cocobolo knife blanks.
African Blackwood pen blanks
Bocote bowl blank. This is 6x6x3 which I WAS going to cut up into 1.5" knife blank sizes, maybe not now....

Elizabeth
My rack is home made using 2 inch Butcher Blocks at 24x18 for each shelf.
The 4 legs are stainless all thread with stainless nuts/washers at top/ bottom of each block.
So infinitely adjustable for depth and level precisely.
So all mods to my equipment work on top of butcher blocks.
Likewise the effect cannot be separated except at speakers.
Everything sits on a tiled solid concrete floor which I think helps any boom,or resonance issues to start with.
My TT sits in a 40lb slab of solid birch and curly maple. Would love to make one from Cocobolo but holy moly the cost!

Looked at Gaboon Ebony and Katalox blanks too but also spendy.

Cool stuff Elizabeth / Thanks 

Everything  matters in this hobby.  Sure ceramic footers are fine, but brass works better in MY system.  ...what ever sounds best to you is the proper answer.

As fate would have it brass is on the softer end 3-4 of the Mohs Hardness Scale 0-10 and for that reason I’m out. Best results in terms of naturalness, openness and dynamics will almost always be obtained with very hard materials like diamond, tungsten, heat tempered steel and NASA grade ceramics (DH Cones), next hardest material to diamond. Even the Small size DH Cones which are actually quite cost effective, clobber most other cones. I used to buy them by sheet! I don’t do this for my health, you know. Of course, there will be an exception or two that proves the rule. Hey, that rhymes! 🤗

Everything is relative. A. Einstein 😛

I just picked up a set of three small DH cones for $35 (including shipping) that I plan to place under my phono stage.  I also bough DH squares to place the cones on as recommended by GS.  I may A/B compare them against some BDR carbon cones and discs that are currently under my BDR Source shelf supporting my TT.  Experimenting is good times ;-)

Ok, newbie here, at least in this arena. I am currently stacking my two amps, preamp, CD player and Bluesound Node two on top of each other. I know there is no one perfect answer, but...

Do I need to have a rack first with maple shelves? Can I just insert pen blanks between the components? What about #10 stoppers or ceramic cones? Help!!!!

@uberwaltz,

This may be off slightly from the original text of your post but I think serves to give an example of how good/proper isolation can work.

I have (2) Martin Logan Depth i subs in my small listening space. I’ve been using the stock (pretty darn good quality) supplied spikes for years. I have a few sets of Stillpoints Ultra SS that are unused and had always planned on using some under the MLs. I just needed to order some adapters and a few Bullet Spikes and the installation was very easy. I was as you say, "shocked"..... at how much more, clear lower bass info there is now that I really never heard before. The MLs have 3 equally opposing 8" drivers that cancel out almost all vibrations ( the main reason I like them so much in my situation). Having said that and even though they are on a suspended floor, I get this great upgrade in SQ. Oh yeah, the center stage, especially vocals have an enticing new clarity that draws you in.

@slaw .

Very much on topic imho.

Now you have me thinking that I need to address my ML sub too.
It is actually sitting on some of those little wood blocks with grooved rubber either side( totally forget the make).

I am sure there is mileage to be had there as well for myself.

But it is nice to hear someone else having a big ah ha moment over something fairly simple as well.

Off to look in my odds n sods box see if I can come up with anything before spending any!

Is it just me but don’t springs seem like the obvious choice to put under a sub?

Geoff you may be right but I just have this vision of the sub boinging round the room on it's springs......

😯😯😯

Oh, brother!

👍👍👍

Seriously I had a very good result now I trawl my memory banks in my ht rig years ago.

Had this huge fugly 15 inch sub , boy could it move some air but very wooly sound.
Raised it up on spikes and a huge improvement all round. It still chuffed some at the port but a lot tighter response.

Elizabeth, Thank you for your gentle chastisement. I will try to start new threads for all my silly questions. But thank you for taking pity on me and answering!

Well I found some huge spikes in my cupboard, not sure what they came from but was able to adapt them to the bottom of my ML sub.
Have also some nice metal cups for them to sit into with a rubber backing for the floor side which as it is sitting on a solid concrete floor that is tiled is about as good as I can get for now on the cheap.

Distinct improvement in the bass department, tighter more distinct notes more easily discernible as separate notes. And it appears to have merged even better into the system, I really could not tell from my seating position that there is a sub in the system previously but now absolutely not even when looking right at it and knowing that is where the deep bass is coming from my ears tell me it is not.

Works for me so far!

Both, or either, depending on frequency. Decouplers above resonance, couplers at and below. A mechanical low-pass filter.

GK
So are you saying in your opinion by placing springs under my sub instead of the now spikes/cups I may find an even greater increase in SQ?
That would be a nice move if true.

I had thought about using springs under the subs for a while but since I already had the Stillpoints, why let that kind of investment just sit around? Additionally the Stillpoints are a ball n' cup device so from my understanding, the vibrations from above and below dissipate at the ball. IMO, this makes the Stillpoints both a coupler & decoupler.

Maybe overused by now but more mind boggling results.
Raised my little Denon au320 SUT up on 3 ceramic cones points downwards and probably an even larger SQ improvement than on the Chinook.
It is like a layer of grunge that I never even knew was there was just removed.
Clarity and detail just took a huge leap forward.
Makes you wonder just how much more is left hiding in those little grooves to be discovered.

I guess the transformer in this SUT was a pretty noisy beggar!

Sitting here with a massive grin from ear to ear!

@slaw 
I would definitely be finding a home/ use for those Stillpoints too.
Sounds like they are working well for you and that is what counts.
Coupling and decoupling at the same time may truly be the key.

uberwaltz OP
GK, So are you saying in your opinion by placing springs under my sub instead of the now spikes/cups I may find an even greater increase in SQ? That would be a nice move if true.

If there was something better I would have already designed it and be selling it. Whaddya think, Junior, these hands have been soaking in Ivory Liquid?

@geoffkait ,

Were you the other one in the van?

Although I’ve never tried them, the Synergistic Research MIG couplers...I find interesting. According to their literature, they recommend 2 down & 1 up or 1 up & 2 down.

@uberwaltz,

Those rubber/cork isolators were trapping vibes just waiting to get out. Those are mostly used for isolating heavy/noisy industrial equipment. The air handler for my HVAC system in my attic sits on 6 of them.

I’ve heard the “one up two down” theory before. It actually doesn’t make any sense. We’ve been over this before not too long ago. Same thing goes for the all points up theory. It doesn’t make sense. And if it doesn’t make sense it’s probably not true. I suggest filing that theory under old wives tales.

slaw
@geoffkait ,

Were you the other one in the van?

>>>>>Possibly.

Geoff, 

The MIGs are a different shape (domed), not sure of the material they're made of. I assume these factors might be different from the usual point/funnel/cone shape. I just think it maybe a possible look to someone who's willing to experiment. There was a set offered here at $100.

I have heard the same thing from a user/customer of DH Cones, the quote is probably still on Golden Sound’s web site. But as I already said that theory doesn’t make sense. People say a lot of things, some of which might not be true. There is no theory I can think of, you know, as a theoretical physicist, why that one down two up theory would ever be true. Whether a the shape is domed, or ballistic or conical all cones act like mechanical diodes. Otherwise you could have a double-pointed cone or one that looks like an egg🥚 We had this class last week. Obviously there are a lot of theories about this stuff floating around.

@slaw   The SR MIG 2.0s work as advertised. Additional detail from SR's website:

"MiG 2.0 builds on the performance of the original MiG with the inclusion of a specially tuned high frequency transducer similar to our HFT room treatments. The 2.0’s balance is extended with high frequency air that makes music sound as if it is decaying into infinity. Perfect for high resolution systems that are well sorted, tube based systems or systems that need help with high frequency extension, simply experiment with your two placement options, Pin-Point and Ambient, to find your perfect system match. You may also want to experiment with MiG’s and MiG 2.0’s for a bespoke solution that fits your system and personal tastes to a tee."

The MIG is also offered in Version 1 form.

Thanks @david_ten 

I own some HFTs to level 2. I have currently felt going further with these in my well treated room may not be the best use of money right now. I am impressed with what I heard thus far. I appreciate your feedback.

I hate to judge too harshly but it certainly seems, just reading what’s on their web site, that they don’t know the difference between damping and grounding and isolation. At a minimum, it’s a little loosey-goosey, to use the technical term.

@david_ten ,

Well it seems to be a lot about "tuning" doesn’t it? Of coarse, and correct me if I'm wrong, but here we're talking about using the MIGs inside a system that has been properly decoupled from it's environment?

@slaw Yes. : ) The MIGs are a solution, one among many. My response was generic. If someone has them, or can borrow them, they are worth experimenting with. I find they have subtle effects on top of component chassis, as well. 

I used Super DH Cones on top of components and speakers, as “node dampers.” Anyone recall Totem Beak? At one point in time way back when, maybe fifteen years ago I probably had at least 25 Supers in the room. On walls, too. Oh, and around 50 of the jumbo, medium and small DH Cones, too. I was not shy about using DH Cones. That was around the time I would require blindfolds before entering the room. Which, thinking back now seems a little excessive.

@david_ten ,

Your presence here has seemingly acted like GK's "Dark Matter", it has had a controlling effect on him.

I doubt Geoff brakes for me. : )

geoff wins the internet today (LOL)...
"That was around the time I would require blindfolds before entering the room. Which, thinking back now seems a little excessive"

BTW, I'm also a fan of the DH cones