Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!
I've had a set for a couple of years. I hadn't had a chance yet to use them under a component that passes the music signal. Pretty neat design as it allows lots of flexibility. One thing I noticed in my particular use was the springs' slight movement inside the acrylic top/bottom plates can have a slight audible noise. I had always thought of making new ones out of Maple. The price is low enough to be a no-brainer if you like to experiment with such things. |
Anybody have any experience with these from Partsconnexion? Price is certainly right! https://www.partsconnexion.com/CONNEX-83389.html |
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Just one Mpingo disc in the room will change your whole way of looking at wood and looking at the world. And get this. The Mpingo disc is only 1 1/2” in diameter. Hel-loo! Imagine my embarrassment when I was with Mapleshade at the show in 1997 with Mapleshade and the Mpingo disc I had knocked off was sitting right there on the floor in plain view near the speakers where Pierre put it when who should come walking through the door but the two dudes from Shun Mook. Knocking off the Mpingo disc is no easy chore, don’t try this at home kids, stay in school, for a number of reasons, including but not limited to the fact it’s directional in the azimuthal direction as well as top to bottom. |
@uberwaltz, I had an idea a while back I thought about trying, just thought I'd share. If you have a high quality wood store/shop in your area, have them shape a half circle piece of (moulding)(flat on the other side) a little larger than the wooded dowel you'll place in it. These pieces would be about 2" long. The dowel should be of smaller diameter than the channel cut into the "moulding" for movement. I suspect this would sound even better than just blanks. It would be an inexpensive enough project to try anyway. |
It's good to have a week at home to experiment although the reason for it not so good ... Lol. So the Cocobolo pen stock worked out really well under the zx7 tape deck. What I find interesting here is that both tape decks ( Cassette and r2r) appeared to benefit from the exotic wood stock. Both exhibited similar apparent gain in volume and depth of bass with better dynamics all round. No idea what that is telling me at all. |
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Had time this afternoon to experiment with the Cocobolo pen blanks that arrived while I was working in the Pacific Northwest. Still prefer my $1 ex ham radio ceramic cones points down under phono, SUT , CD transport and Jolida Black Ice bass expander. Cannot really tell much difference between the African Blackwood or Cocobolo under the reel to reel player tbh. Maybe I will take up pen turning......... |
@geoffkait , I own some of your SSS (Super Stiff Springs), I also own a slightly heavier rated spring/s from www.Grainger.com They look similar. Is there any difference? I also own a set of 4 cryo’d babies, for complete disclosure. |
The type of my spring and how many springs to use is a function of the load and the center of gravity COG height above the springs. For moderate loads like uber’s Subwoofer, 4 of my Baby Prometheans will suffice but for heavy loads above, say, 75 LB use Super Stiff Springs, 4 of which will support loads up to 100-120 LB. For a load of 60 LB use 5 Baby Prometheans. For even heavier loads add as many springs as necessary, given 30 LB per inch rating. For tall speakers accommodations must be made for the high center of gravity. Give me the proper spring and I will isolate the world. |
I have good results with DH Jumbo Cones under my speaker stands (points down) & Isoacoustic pucks between the speakers & the stands. Always looking for improvements, but this combination works well so far. The speakers are Wilson Cubs & the stands are Sound Anchors. FWIW the combination of speaker & stand is 150 lbs. I’ve tried the cones in both directions & there is no contest. I’ve also tried various spikes under the stands. Again, the DH cones win. BTW, the stands sit on a slate/cement floor. Just saw a mouse run out from behind the rig... gotta go, crap. |
The Nirvana Isolation Platform, Special order only. Dual heavy mass-on-spring layers. Three granite, bluestone or slate slabs, each heavy slab separated by a number of springs. The number of springs of each layer varies along with the load. The lower set of springs obviously must support more weight than the upper set. The lowest slab is supported by SUPER DH Cones and the component on the topmost slab is also supported by SUPER DH Cones. This dual layer platform provides two stages of isolation for the component. The trick is keeping the resonant frequencies Fr of the two iso systems sufficiently separated so they won’t interfere with each other. That would be a very bumpy ride if they did. No, I do not ship granite, bluestone or slate slabs. 😛 Thought for the day - LIGO was able to detect gravity waves by using isolation not tuning. |
It’s like looking in the mirror. Barry is the man! But for Led Zeppelin CDs I somewhat prefer George Marino, who remastered the Led Zeppelin Remasters Box set of 1990, which apparently used the original master tapes, at least as far as I know. As fate would have it, I heard some of the Led Zeppelin 1990 Remasters on a BSOTA (that’s Beyond State of the Art) system Saturday. If you could hear what I heard with my ears. By the way, don’t fall into the trap of trying to figure out if something falls into the Tuning category or vibration control. It’s not that simple. Michael Green uses springs yet calls them “tuning.” He is a staunch anti isolation kind of guy. See the irony? But I digress. Wood is a know resonator, you know, like Mpingo discs, so I would put wood squarely in the VIBRATION CONTROL category. The only good vibration is a dead vibration. |
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For those unfamiliar with Barry Diaments findings on seismic isolation control, this is would be worth reading http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm |
I have used and some customers currently use granite or Bluestone, which I’m pretty sure are similar physically to slate, slabs with my springs. Cones under the component and under the lower slab. I am quite fond of very hard materials and very stiff materials, the latter resists bending forces. Recall there are three rotational forces along with vertical forces and forces in the horizontal plane. Rotational forces are around the x, y, z axes. Like a boat on the ocean as a wave passes under it. Barry Diament of Led Zeppelin mastering fame is high on springs along with roller bearings, the combination of which isolates in all or nearly all six directions of motion. |
Thanks Geoff for the explanation. I haven’t had any experience of using cones of any sort (maybe I should?) but I am getting extremely good results from using Ingress Engineering cup and roller balls directly under the components, sitting on a platform of 30mm thick slate with air springs for vertical isolation under the slate. I intend trying metal springs under the slate to compare. With the Bakoon 13R amp because it uses projecting heat sinks as footers, I use another layer of slate, so the Bakoon sits on this, with Ingress Engineering cup and rollers supporting the slate platform and they in turn sit on a similar platform of slate which sits on air springs. Ingress Engineering also make a version for isolating loudspeakers which I haven’t tried yet. If using these I would suggest using them with a platform of slate with springs under. With the Cube Nenuphar speakers I went for a simpler arrangement with them sitting on Townshend Podiums, which comprise a heavy aluminium platform with adjustable springs on each corner. There are a range of Podiums varying in size and weight capacity. I found a marked improvement in SQ using the Podiums even though the Nenuphar’s are already remarkable. |
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toetapaudio Just to clarify please, Geoff, are you saying that you prefer GS cones to MD springs in some areas or you have moved on from the cones? What I’ve been advising is a comprehensive program of vibration isolation and resonance control. What that means is both mass-on-spring isolation (springs) and cones are sometimes desired. If I had to choose between cones and springs in a simple set up, I’d choose springs. Especially since we know know from Townshend’s video of speaker isolation that spring systems are rather effective in resonance control as well as isolation. One advantage of going to smaller springs is the ability to forego the complications of plates and cones which are needed for more complex iso stands like my Nimbus and Promethean Base of yore. And for other iso stands like Vibraplane and Minus K I suggest DH Cones should go under both the stand and the component. That’s how I came to appreciate the characteristics of cones - by having to evaluate the variety of cones available to use with my iso stands. But to answer your question more directly, I no longer sell cones, I used to, because the springs alone are almost always the best solution. This is not to say some damping techniques might be of value for certain applications - e.g., the CD itself, the CD transport, transformers, printed circuit boards, capacitors, etc. Lastly, DH Cones have other applications beside under components. On top of speakers, on top of Tube Traps, on top of components, and others. So, in that sense I have not ruled out DH Cones, they’re still in the game. Did I mention under furniture? |
Have been experimenting with the wood today, only had the African Blackwood delivered Sat. I still prefer my ex ham radio cones points down under my phono, SUT and CD transport. The Blackwood lost some dynamics and poise, did thicken up the bass a bit, maybe too wooly in all honesty. This is using 3 pen blanks in place of 3 ceramic cones. Now where I DO like the Blackwood is under the Pioneer reel to reel. That needed a little bass boost and it got it and a nice increase in overall gain it sounds like, not sure quite how. But the presentation overall appears boosted all over but not in an overblown way. Waiting for the Cocobolo...... |
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GK, I'm still using the BDR cones and carbon discs under my TT. I don't have enough DH cones to try them under both components at the same time. These initial results are compelling although I'm wondering if the BDR cones will continue have better synergy with BDR "Source Shelf" compared to the Golden Sounds products. I realize there is only one way to find out. |
So I tried my new DH medium cones (got for $35 including shipping from a shop listing them on USAM) over the weekend. I used them together with the Golden Sound DH squares under my Herron VTPH-2A. I have to say...really positive impact on detail, clarity and depth of soundstage! I'd say the results were most comparable to finding really good tubes to go with your favorite analog gear. Thanks for the ideas borne from this thread guys ;-) |
