Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!

There is a set of the Dh cones on eBay right now at $70.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192973022785

I thought I paid less...recently for a brand new set?

DH  should start an advertising campaign....showing a picture of the (Mediums) along side of Jane or maybe a more recent gal, with a "thought cloud" saying......"the sound you always dreamed about".......

elizabeth
I wish someone would do some study of the changes in sound different shapes of cones create? And what changes in dnesity cause?) I know there are also ebony flattish cones similar to the flatter DH, also the dome shape have similar type in ebony. (I have both in ebony, plus small and medium dome type in ebony. But I am too preoccupied with my exotic wood blocks to go back and putz around with footer shapes. Plus the THREE vs FOUR business? Maybe next year, once I have really explored the exotic wood enough.

>>>>Been there, done that. And as far as I know I’m the only one who has. We covered that last semester. But don’t dismay. There’s always summer school. Do an Audiogon search for Mohs scale of Hardness and all will be revealed.

Geoff Kait
Machina Dynamica
Advanced Audio Conceits

The Golden Years for Golden Sound were around 15 years ago when Allen Chang carried the DH cones, Golden Sound Cables, Ultra Tweeters, Acoustic Discs, the Intelligent Chip 🤓 - then he kind of went off the radar and focused primarily on his line of HDMI cables. I was in his room at CES demoing the Intelligent Chip, the pebbles, about five (count ‘em!) of my Promethean springy bases, we even had a Nirvana dual layer iso stand! Hel-loo! Golden Sound speakers, Ultra Tweeters. We had BWS Consulting’s Tube preamp. I spent most of the night before the show treating the room with Peter Belt stuff. We had the water bowls. We even had photos in the freezer that year. OMG! 😛 Those were the Golden Years.

Run for the shadows, run for the shadows
Run for the shadows in these golden years

I am still a little perplexed by both DH and SR claim to use their cones/couplers in either two up/ one down or two down /One up configuration.

Does not make a lot of sense to myself.

But if I had a set I would naturally give it a try.

However between $70 and $250 for a set vs $1 each for the ex Ham radio ceramic cones I am presently using?

Cheapness, I mean financial responsibility, is not always a virtue. Penny smart and pound foolish.  😬 It’s all about the Hardness. The DH cones are the next hardest to diamond. They are NASA grade, harder than other ceramics. The Small DH Cones are what, $39 Set of 3?

It was not Golden Sound’s claim for the one up two down configuration. That was some customer’s claim. Trust me, the “all points down” configuration is correct. 🤗

It was not Golden Sound’s claim for the one up two down configuration. That was some customer’s claim. Trust me, the “all points down” configuration is correct. 🤗

I beg to disagree, it’s right there in the installation guide.


https://www.goldensound.com/hd-cone-installation-giudes

Penny smart and pound foolish.

Actually I prefer my old English saying.

" look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"

It's all about (tuning).

I agree Slaw but one has to draw a line in the sand somewhere or its just crazy world time.

Between my $1 ceramic cones and the pieces of exotic wood I have arriving today I think I have more than enough combos to literally explode my head from the inside out!

The original Stillpoints: delrin housing w/ a ceramic ball
I used these under my EAR 834P and noticed a difference when I put one inverted.
However, when I bought the ss minis, the effectiveness was moved upwards....then using 3 vs 4...another forward progress was made.

Exactly Elizabeth.
Tbh the success I have had with my el cheapo ceramic cones gives me a similar opinion on what I could possibly expect.
For example when I placed 3 under my SUT I was expecting a gain but not in the magnitude it gave. However it was extremely positively addictive!

Sigh! I suppose with that being said I should also try 2 down/ 1 up with those too.......

So many variables, so much music,so little time!

@elizabeth 

I agree and you more thoughtfully explained what I failed to.

So I tried my new DH medium cones (got for $35 including shipping from a shop listing them on USAM) over the weekend.  I used them together with the Golden Sound DH squares under my Herron VTPH-2A.  I have to say...really positive impact on detail, clarity and depth of soundstage!  I'd say the results were most comparable to finding really good tubes to go with your favorite analog gear.  Thanks for the ideas borne from this thread guys ;-)  

Question, was that compared to the Back Diamond Racing Cones and squares? Because if you still using the BDR Cones under the turntable, ....you know.

GK,

I'm still using the BDR cones and carbon discs under my TT.  I don't have enough DH cones to try them under both components at the same time.  These initial results are compelling although I'm wondering if the BDR cones will continue have better synergy with BDR "Source Shelf" compared to the Golden Sounds products.  I realize there is only one way to find out.

Ban that person!! 🤐

Absolutely hilarious
And laughably stupid!

The prude police just removed my post alluding to the existence of the prude police.......

Watch this space.

I see a vacation in your future. 😛

Permanent Vacation?
Wait sorry that was Aerosmith.

I should be so lucky!

Have been experimenting with the wood today, only had the African Blackwood delivered Sat.

I still prefer my ex ham radio cones points down under my phono, SUT and CD transport.
The Blackwood lost some dynamics and poise, did thicken up the bass a bit, maybe too wooly in all honesty. This is using 3 pen blanks in place of 3 ceramic cones.

Now where I DO like the Blackwood is under the Pioneer reel to reel.
That needed a little bass boost and it got it and a nice increase in overall gain it sounds like, not sure quite how.
But the presentation overall appears boosted all over but not in an overblown way.

Waiting for the Cocobolo......

Mine too, uber.

Just to clarify please, Geoff, are you saying that you prefer GS cones to MD springs in some areas or you have moved on from the cones?

toetapaudio
Just to clarify please, Geoff, are you saying that you prefer GS cones to MD springs in some areas or you have moved on from the cones?

What I’ve been advising is a comprehensive program of vibration isolation and resonance control. What that means is both mass-on-spring isolation (springs) and cones are sometimes desired. If I had to choose between cones and springs in a simple set up, I’d choose springs. Especially since we know know from Townshend’s video of speaker isolation that spring systems are rather effective in resonance control as well as isolation. One advantage of going to smaller springs is the ability to forego the complications of plates and cones which are needed for more complex iso stands like my Nimbus and Promethean Base of yore. And for other iso stands like Vibraplane and Minus K I suggest DH Cones should go under both the stand and the component.

That’s how I came to appreciate the characteristics of cones - by having to evaluate the variety of cones available to use with my iso stands. But to answer your question more directly, I no longer sell cones, I used to, because the springs alone are almost always the best solution. This is not to say some damping techniques might be of value for certain applications - e.g., the CD itself, the CD transport, transformers, printed circuit boards, capacitors, etc.

Lastly, DH Cones have other applications beside under components. On top of speakers, on top of Tube Traps, on top of components, and others. So, in that sense I have not ruled out DH Cones, they’re still in the game. Did I mention under furniture?

Eek! 
Mix,n,match??
Argh, even more potential combos.
One wood, two wood, cones up, cones down.
Mind implosion.

Is wood directional? If so, which direction is best? Which way should the grain go? 😳 Has anyone tried stacking two different woods? 😩

Thanks Geoff for the explanation. I haven’t had any experience of using cones of any sort (maybe I should?) but I am getting extremely good results from using Ingress Engineering cup and roller balls directly under the components, sitting on a platform of 30mm thick slate with air springs for vertical isolation under the slate. I intend trying metal springs under the slate to compare.

With the Bakoon 13R amp because it uses projecting heat sinks as footers, I use another layer of slate, so the Bakoon sits on this, with Ingress Engineering cup and rollers supporting the slate platform and they in turn sit on a similar platform of slate which sits on air springs.

Ingress Engineering also make a version for isolating loudspeakers which I haven’t tried yet. If using these I would suggest using them with a platform of slate with springs under. With the Cube Nenuphar speakers I went for a simpler arrangement with them sitting on Townshend Podiums, which comprise a heavy aluminium platform with adjustable springs on each corner. There are a range of Podiums varying in size and weight capacity. I found a marked improvement in SQ using the Podiums even though the Nenuphar’s are already remarkable.

I have used and some customers currently use granite or Bluestone, which I’m pretty sure are similar physically to slate, slabs with my springs. Cones under the component and under the lower slab. I am quite fond of very hard materials and very stiff materials, the latter resists bending forces. Recall there are three rotational forces along with vertical forces and forces in the horizontal plane. Rotational forces are around the x, y, z axes. Like a boat on the ocean as a wave passes under it. Barry Diament of Led Zeppelin mastering fame is high on springs along with roller bearings, the combination of which isolates in all or nearly all six directions of motion.

For those unfamiliar with Barry Diaments findings on seismic isolation control, this is would be worth reading

http://www.barrydiamentaudio.com/vibration.htm

It’s like looking in the mirror. Barry is the man! But for Led Zeppelin CDs I somewhat prefer George Marino, who remastered the Led Zeppelin Remasters Box set of 1990, which apparently used the original master tapes, at least as far as I know. As fate would have it, I heard some of the Led Zeppelin 1990 Remasters on a BSOTA (that’s Beyond State of the Art) system Saturday. If you could hear what I heard with my ears.

By the way, don’t fall into the trap of trying to figure out if something falls into the Tuning category or vibration control. It’s not that simple. Michael Green uses springs yet calls them “tuning.” He is a staunch anti isolation kind of guy. See the irony? But I digress. Wood is a know resonator, you know, like Mpingo discs, so I would put wood squarely in the VIBRATION CONTROL category. The only good vibration is a dead vibration. 

The Nirvana Isolation Platform, Special order only. Dual heavy mass-on-spring layers. Three granite, bluestone or slate slabs, each heavy slab separated by a number of springs. The number of springs of each layer varies along with the load. The lower set of springs obviously must support more weight than the upper set. The lowest slab is supported by SUPER DH Cones and the component on the topmost slab is also supported by SUPER DH Cones. This dual layer platform provides two stages of isolation for the component. The trick is keeping the resonant frequencies Fr of the two iso systems sufficiently separated so they won’t interfere with each other. That would be a very bumpy ride if they did.

No, I do not ship granite, bluestone or slate slabs. 😛

Thought for the day - LIGO was able to detect gravity waves by using isolation not tuning.

I have good results with DH Jumbo Cones under my speaker stands (points down) & Isoacoustic pucks between the speakers & the stands. Always looking for improvements, but this combination works well so far. The speakers are Wilson Cubs & the stands are Sound Anchors. FWIW the combination of speaker & stand is 150 lbs. I’ve tried the cones in both directions & there is no contest. I’ve also tried various spikes under the stands. Again, the DH cones win. BTW, the stands sit on a slate/cement floor. Just saw a mouse run out from behind the rig... gotta go, crap.

Well I have to say that the set of Baby Promethean springs I bought from GK seem to be working out really well under my ML sub.

Almost appears to have added another lower level to the already well integrated bass from the subs to my Maggie's.
They are a keeper under the sub.

So far......

No shirt, Sherlock. Nice of you to say so, though. 😬

@uberwaltz,

I assume you're using 4 springs?

Yes
4 springs one at each corner

The type of my spring and how many springs to use is a function of the load and the center of gravity COG height above the springs. For moderate loads like uber’s Subwoofer, 4 of my Baby Prometheans will suffice but for heavy loads above, say, 75 LB use Super Stiff Springs, 4 of which will support loads up to 100-120 LB. For a load of 60 LB use 5 Baby Prometheans. For even heavier loads add as many springs as necessary, given 30 LB per inch rating. For tall speakers accommodations must be made for the high center of gravity.

Give me the proper spring and I will isolate the world.

Appreciate the post GK.

@geoffkait ,

I own some of your SSS (Super Stiff Springs), I also own a slightly heavier rated spring/s from www.Grainger.com They look similar. Is there any difference?

I also own a set of 4 cryo’d babies, for complete disclosure.

Yes.