CAN WE AUDIOPHILES DO OUR PART?
@coachpoconnor I have always found silver components sound best. But only, of course, if you're carpet is blue. Nothing red can be in the listening room PERIOD. That is an absolute no no. And what's wrong with drinking Clorox? I'm still working on finding a UV light I can swallow. Just saw isochronism is drinking Drano. Now that's CRAZY! |
twoleftears, mahgister, Thanks, I just ordered those two CDs from above youtube promotional video. Let’s see if the recording quality is any good. It says it is from some reel-to-reel tapes of the performance so I guess it is the best we can hope for. I do not know if it is a random number or some sad reminder, but my order is number 56. Not that high. |
Ervin Nyiregyházi is indeed amazing. Best sound probably to be found on the 2 CDs features here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_55QBVmzsU But perhaps some of the magic of the earlier stuff is missing. A really good-sounding modern recording of Liszt by a still-young pianist is "Transcendental", by Daniil Trifonov. |
@chcook I understand what you are saying, but in this political climate of extreme divisiveness, "truth", for many people, is determined by where they get their information. Then you have to factor in their preconceived notions, and whether those notions lead them to seek confirmation in what they choose to watch or who they choose to listen to. Truth should be an absolute, not a matter of opinion. I am currently living in Northeastern NC. That will change as soon as possible. If I listened to most of the people around here I would be flying a confederate flag and wearing a certain red cap. I have one filter when it comes to discerning what my truth is: does it put (all) people first. You did a good job of not making your politics obvious. I should learn to do the same. |
@mahgister, glupson, and devilboy I was going through my collection of Chopin and chose Horowitz's "The Last Recording" It contains the works of Chopin, Haydn, Liszt, and Wagner. For someone of his age at the time he hadn't lost much. I then listened to one of his earlier recordings "Favorite Chopin" which is a collection of Polanaises, Mazurkas, Waltzes, Etudes, Ballades, and Scherzos. Absolutely spectacular. Of course, we need to hear from the expert. You there mahgister? And what is your opinion of Algerich? I have several of her recordings which I much enjoy. I do have an issue with something she does in Prelude #15. She emphasizes a particular note that is a little jarring. I haven't heard it from any other artist. It's similar to what Beethoven did in "Moonlight Sonata". |
We have self-selected ourselves for at least one skill - our ability to listen so USE YOUR EARS! Listen to the people around you and elsewhere in the world. Just as you do for your hobby every day, use your powers of discernment and do your best to decide what is garbage and what is your "truth". Those truths should then guide your actions |
mahgister, After reading this thread last night, I picked what Chopin I have for today's commute. It is Murray Perahia (link below) playing sonatas and some more. What do you think of his interpretations, if you have heard them? I must admit that, unlike Arrau and Nyiregyházi from youtube, I did not find it engaging at all. What is your take on it? I am a total ignorant when it comes to this. https://www.discogs.com/Chopin-Murray-Perahia-4-Ballades/release/13320080 |
Alas! almost all is dirty recordings, sorry glupson....But close the light and try that...forget the sound....This is pure miraculous probing of the soul....I never even listen anybody touching that playing... Try another one after that, anybody and compare.. You will see... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLk6vqaxU1Y He never owned a piano most of his life, dont give a damn for money, and was married 10 times... When his last wife was in bad health, he decide to record past 74 years old i think, to gain money for his health, without any piano for practice most of his life :) He was very poor....He hates his mother who keep him like a circus ape on the stage from his birth to his 16 birthday...After that he hated concert very much...He even play one time under a hood, to no avail, because his playing is impossible to forget then easy to recognize... Schoenberg who was not fond of simple musicians, they are slaves for his own composer creations only, wrote to the young Klemperer that he must come immediately to New-York swiftly crossing the Atlantic to listen to the Hungarian god at the piano... The letter is easy to spot on the internet.... :) When he was 13 years old a book on musical genius was written by a Dutch psychologist and was entirely about him... He was Liszt reincarnated for Hungarian people and for the world scene.... The rest is legendary..... |
Arrau is one of the Best in Chopin....Perhaps the best i know.... Except Moravec is over all others even over Arrau, Arrau plays romantically, Moravec is more a master of the rainbow of colors and his playing is more classical if Bach was playing Chopin he will play like Moravec... But if Moravec was not, i will listen Arrau all the times... Why not? He is truly great.... |
Earl Wild is a truly great pianist till his deathbed... He can play anything.... The only moment in his life when he was envious of someone with rage, was when he listen to Ervin Nyiregyházi....He call his playing"baloney"....:) Imagine a man who was truly a great artist encountering a god that reduce him to almost nothing.... Like Salieri in the Amadeus film, envious of Mozert .... I think Earl Wild is one of the great world pianist, all his cd are refined pure artistry... It is just that the Hungarian reincarnation of Liszt dont play the notes, he does not even play well at times, he play his demonic soul only....He is out of comparison with others simply.... |
@mahgister & @devilboy I was going to ask you about Liszt. I have a recording of Earl Wilde called "The Demonic Liszt". Liszt definitely had a dark side. I also have Scriabin's "Prometheus". I listen to music in total darkness. When I first heard Prometheus I couldn't help but imagine the forming of Earth, with fires everywhere and volcanic explosions. It's very dark. Since you are both Chopin fans, I have a very good book for you. It's appropriately titled: Chopin's Piano. I can't think of the author's name but it's about the search for the piano Chopin wrote the Preludes on, and his relationship with George Sand. Interesting story to "Raindrops"; when Sand heard Prelude #15 she said it sounded like the rain they often heard outside their cottage. Chopin took offense at Sand thinking he could be influenced by something as mundane as raindrops. Good book and exhaustively researched. |
Bach is the ancester of them all.... After Scriabin because it was impossible to surpass his genius of the abyss between each chord,(Scriabin create and use atonality without a vulgar formula like Schoenberg) we need a new road.... Sorabji create it.... And Sorabji is the disciple also of Bach like Chopin, and unlike Liszt and Scriabin who never were....Sorabji has so much genius that his works are the mix of a madman and of an angel in equal quantity....His Transcendental Studies for example, numbering 100 opus on 6 cd, are sheer marvels....His other works are so enormous that all others composers look like pygmys...Except Scriabin and Bach for the sheer perfection of their creations that cannot and will never be diminished... Even by Sorabji... In one word his works is a jungle of notes, perfectly harmonized, a chaos mimicking a crystal and a crystal mimicking chaos.... His angelic genius is clearly evident in his Trancendental Studies (6 cd) with Michael Habermann... His madman like genius is for all of us to see in the Opus clavicembalisticum with John Ogdon, a madman and an angel himself, the best version there is (4 hours and 30 minutes ).... If you are a beginner try the cd "le jardin parfumé ", a more "normal" work and a short one, truly beautiful and obsessively contemplative...A marvel.... Dont try any other works first, otherwise you can die... When someone go fishing for the first time he dont try to catch a whale first :) |
Chopin is my favorite composerThe most important works of piano for Chopin are the Mazurkas....Very difficult to play rythmically....He wrote them all his life...He wrote 59 for 24 years till his deathbed... The mazurkas were the heart of chopin My best player is Antonio Guedes Barbosa, one of the greatest unknown pianist in Occident.... His sense of rythm and humble simplicity makes miracles here...He play them effortlessly without never breaking the rythmical comlexity contrary to most other interpreters..... This is the best kept secret of the discography says one time an English critic.... I approve him....Like Moravec he play Chopin with Bach in the back of the head, not romantically, but this times more with his sense of the rythmical unity, he does not break the rythm or accentuate it in a romantic manner.. Each mazurkas being a Polish dance with a duality of rythms in each one is very difficult to play, we must feel it in our body...He also has a great color sense, a bit less than Moravec tough, but his rythmical sense is unsurpassed.... Chopin is a poet....Liszt is a romantic magician.... Scriabin is godlike .... For Liszt the ONLY divine interpreter is Ervin Nyiregyházi, for me the greatest pianist i ever listen to....For Scriabin the greatest is the russian giant, Vladimir Sofronitsky.... He plays like a volcano erupting under a rain of orchids...His playings in Scriabin touch the divine and is akin to Nyiregyhazi...That speak volumes.... |
After all those years Gould manage to be one of the very interesting rendition indeed... His obsessive playings is fascinating and never boring... I will lie saying that i dont like it... :) But my favorite one is after the destruction of the Berlin Wall the russian defector Vladimir Feltsman playing it live for the first time in his free Russia... It is full with irrepressible energy like Gould but more inventive if it is possible, and more dreamlike and poetic at times.... The 2 are very good....They are others i like also.... With Bach the greater number of version of an opus there is the better it is.... Even God and the devil like Bach with the same love....But the 2 hate Scriabin ....For God Scriabin mimic too much Satan, and for Satan Scriabin mimic too much God.... You rightly guess that Scriabin is my favorite piano composer.... |
@cal91 yes, the story of Chet Baker is a sad and tragic one. But what a gift he was! @mahgister Chopin is my favorite composer. I love Beethoven and others but what Chopin wrote for solo piano moves me like nothing else I've ever heard in my life. You had a great statement that you begin to understand Chopin with Moravec.... Wow. I REALLY need to listen. |
@ mahgister & devilboy I just read about Chet Baker. What a tragic figure with the drugs, troubles with the law, and the loss of his teeth which affected his playing. I then listened to a YouTube recording of "Chet". That's the kind of jazz I like. I then watched his last interview before his death. Very sad. That a creative genius like Chopin would hold Bach is such high regard is a testament to the otherwordly talent Bach possessed. mahgister: what is your opinion of Gould's interpretation of the Goldberg Variations? |
Cal91Chopin was amazed by Bach.... The best way to play it for me is in this light....Moravec is so good with Chopin because he plays it like some kind of Bach, he plays less the melody than the harmony between chord...His color shades sense makes that possible... Others even the best plays romantically the melody only....I begins to understand Chopin with Moravec.... Think about Scriabin that no one can ever whistle.... Why? because the harmony, the colors between chords replace the melody with an abyss.....Chopin is the ancester of Scriabin with Liszt.... Who can play Listz? Almost no one can play Scriabin also.... Music is where an abyss walk..... For any melody an harpsichord will do all right....For the abyss between chords , and each abyss has his own colors, we need to invent the piano with his pastel shades.... |
@devilboy I will check out Cherry Baker. I have developed a taste for jazz, particularly Davis and Coltrane and Ellington. If Baker can keep up with those guys he's definitely worth adding to my listening list. Sharing our love for music.This is so much better than the negativity we sometimes fall into on these forums. |
@ mahgister It took me a while to be able to access some of Bach's works. They can be incredibly complex and dense. But when you begin to understand that complexity you are left in awe of such enormous genius. The Brandenburg Concertos and Concerto for Two Violins are some of my favorite works. For the past several months I have been obsessed with Chopin. I recently purchased a 20 CD set of Rubinstein plays Chopin and found a recording of Rachmaninoff plays Chopin. They are amazing renditions only diminished by the sound quality. I am so focused on the piano that when I listened to some Chopin concertos I found the accompanying instruments to be an unpleasant distraction. I will take your advice and get the Nocturnes. I look forward to hearing him. I just saw devilboy's post. He said it nicely. The way you write about music is very poetic. |
Chet Baker play his soul and forget trumpet....I like him much.... You are right about"chet", it is one of his many best.... I like Bill Evans because he play also his soul first, and forget piano...Two brothers i think they own the same playing....Because of that they are in a class of their own, without rivals.... They always sing and never only play....Most other plays very well and sometimes magically, but singing is very difficult, you need your soul, and the best hands and fingers there is will never be able to sing.... Only the soul sing.... I am a bit partial, i like some artists so much, that they erase all the rest....Happily i know more than a few... When i was young, someone ask to me if i liked music? I answered no...I love only Bach and it is music no more.... :) |
cal91 If you like him, and i have no doubts about that because his playing is natural and effortless like Rubinstein, but his sense of color shades is almost unsurpassed, buy his Nocturnes version... Very good sound recording and for me the best version there is, especially after the first one hundred listenings, you know why? Because when someone listen the same melody forever, there is some weariness that will point his nose at some times....But with Moravec pianism, playing each note like if it was the only one note, like a star in the sky, you will never be tired... You will not hear the melody first, like you hear with all other pianists but you will be entranced and hypnotized by each chord, like if 2 or 3 meteors fell from the sky.... And who can be weary and tired by meteors showing? Or blinking stars? The melody will be there tough like the sky is there for each star.... |
glupson phd, "How about this one, if you reverse your cabling they will play the music backwards." You are late to the party. We already have one directionality expert here. Hey, that’s what phd stands for! Paul his dead 😱 I can’t stop now! |
cal91Ivan Moravec....Preludes and Nocturnes and frankly anything by him.....It is one of my few transcendant pianists....A master of nuances and pastel colors....All his cd are top of the interpretation....He is more known by envious pianists or admiring one than by the crowds, i dont know how we can veil such a master and let him behind the scene? |
@glupson & @geoffkait Take it outside PLEASE! It was cute for a while (a very short while) now it's just juvenile and silly. I know this makes me a new target, so go ahead, get it out of your system. Someone mentioned listening to Chopin ( a big thumbs up) and Schubert (a thumbs up) and who the hell is Chet Baker? I am looking for the absolute best recording of Chopin's Preludes. I have Rubinstein, Algerich, and Ashkenazy. Anybody have a suggestion? Yes, I am trying to change the subject. From a sincere and humane request for ideas about how we can help people, this thread has devolved into insults, conspiracy theories and downright nastiness. Can't we all just get along? |
