Can hi-end cables benefit less expensive electronics?

@jc4659 ​​​& @soix-

                                       +1 each (overall)

                                        The OP, as well. 

Better cables will most likely make a difference, in most levels of systems. 

But, the better and better a systems gets, the bigger the audible differences will become. 

It seems to me, since most of the issues higher end cables claim to address are ostensibly minimized and handled better by the design, tech, build quality etc. of more expensive, higher end equipment, cables will affect higher end systems less than less well made (cheaper) systems. 

every audio product class has low end, mid-end and high-end designs, including cables. even with my decades long design and test experience, is very hard for me to provide opinion on "to do or not” for cable replacement move, without specifics provided. I found excellence in SQ/performance of “some cables” from 80s, at very low price, beating many current “better” x100 exp. ones.

absolutely not as long as the cables where they’re cheap or expensive are well-made and you can find hundreds of well made ’affordable’ cables on amazon

@megabyte …”cables will affect higher end systems less than less well made (cheaper) systems”

Yes that sounds logical, but the reality is generally the opposite. The better (higher resolving, more carefully voiced) the more difference cables make. High end equipment is like very high quality scientific instruments, susceptible to more subtle differences.

@megabyte …”cables will affect higher end systems less than less well made (cheaper) systems”

Yes that sounds logical, but the reality is generally the opposite. The better (higher resolving, more carefully voiced) the more difference cables make.

@ghdprentice +1.  I’d use the example of putting a $4k set of tires on a Ferrari versus putting them on a Toyota Corolla.  Those tires on the Ferrari will allow it to tap further into its considerable capabilities while they’re more likely to just highlight the Toyota’s limitations. 

I’m not sure I agree that a better power cord is a poor idea for less expensive electronics.

The right cord should - at the very least - lower the noise floor, so you hear less electronic interference when playing music, resulting in a clearer sound. Now, if a "euphonic" sound is what someone wants, that’s fine. After all, it’s your system. But, even with my older NAD integrated, they sounded better with a better power cord.

There’s a caveat here, though. If you are not listening to well-recorded music - which typically is classical and jazz and a few other genres, you won’t get all the benefits. I was listening to my system with a top of the line Shunyata cable, and what I heard first was the improvement in the bass, when I played a disco cut I played in clubs years ago. Having heard this record since 1978, I know how it sounded on earlier iterations of the system. Aside from the bass (on this particular record), I didn’t hear the rest of the sound to improve in any noticeable way. Since it’s a record i doubt they put much effort into recording, I wasn’t expecting much from it. And that’s what I got. Improved bass, but the vocals were no clearer than they were before. This is down to one thing: your choice in music.

I’ve had other CDS or vinyl that sounded better with a better cord (and I used several levels of the company whose power cords I buy: Shunyata), but I know that it’s a hit-or-miss proposition if the music is typical of the way most music is recorded (doubling up the main vocalist’s voice, or 85 microphones used) - things that have nothing to do with music. What IS encouraging is that more recently recorded music seems to be tilting towards better recording, which is always a good thing. 

I can’t imagine a good cord making the musical presentation worse. I CAN imagine hearing the recording as it really is, and then being disappointed because it ’sounded better with a cheap cord.’ But again, the deciding factor there is the music one plays. Electra Records from the 1980s will never sound as if they have any bass, because Electra was famous for ’no bass’ on their records in the ’80s (the ’70s were quite different). Their entire recording process was horrible in that decade: glassy-sounding music with no depth. And a good cord might reveal more of that "this-is-how-it-actually-sounds" effect, but then, that’s the record (and I don’t imagine streaming or CDs will improve the sound quality).

So, a really good power cord will show you what something sounds like - or at least, uncover the poorer recorded aspects of a record, but do you want that? Me, I play all kinds of music and am sometimes surprised by how good a recording I haven’t played in years, sounds. I also find that vinyl reveals this more than CDs (I don’t stream much at all), so it also depends on what your medium of choice is.

That said, a well-engineered power cord will lift the system’s sound quality upwards. I’ve never heard one that makes the system sound worse, unless you count banishing the euphonic effects a bad thing.

It seems to me that a power cord can only benefit an amplifier in 2 ways. It can be thick enough gauge to properly transfer your AC power to the amp. And it can be shielded so other sensitive cables near or touching it aren’t being interfered with. And that’s fine. I fully admit this to be true. The problem I have is, all this can be easily done for $100 or less. Let’s be fancy and say why not go all out and spend $500, maybe $1000 for a truly great one. So what exactly is the $20-$50,000 power cord doing that can’t be done for $500, or even $150? Electricity and wires isn’t super complicated. We’ve just about nailed it at this point. And, this is NOT a cord transmitting perhaps more delicate analog signals that are in the signal path where you could at least think, just maybe the sound can be affected. It’s a simple power cable that’s outside the signal path. It’s doable for $100, they can totally nail it in every possible way for 500, including the same top grade connectors the insanely priced ones use. So explain the $25,000 power cord please.

@gbmcleod

Certainly a very good power cord may improve an inexpensive amp. But, it is unlikely to have the impact because the noise floor of the components is likely to be much higher than a high end component… basically covering up the improvement… same logic with dynamics… etc.

@megabyte

The answer is easy to determine. Actually  compare a dozen different power cords on an high end system. Include a two meter Audioquest Hurricane and Dragon as well as a Cardas Clear Beyond and High end Nordost and your question changes to… how do they do that?

@megabyte, @gbmcleod, @ghdprentice 

I have been building cables for over 20 years, on systems ranging from a $350 mini system, a Bluesound Speaker, my own system priced around $20k, and other systems priced over $100k.

Each system performed noticeably better with a better power cable, with improvements in

• noise floor
• bass - more detailed and fuller
• faster dynamics
• more micro details in the venue acoustics

Here's a thread that explains the many facets of good cable design

• What Makes good Cable

Regards - Steve

Thanks, Willie Wonka.

I was about to reply to ghdprentice about that, and say, essentially, what you just said.

The noise floor’s lowest level is likely to drop with a better designed power cord. That’s part of the reason I like Shunyata. I have several generations of power cords here, and it can easily be heard that the newer lines have a considerably lower noise floor, so I can hear quieter, more delicate details (and in classical music, that is what makes the music: the delicate moments).

As for Megabyte’s argument, I’m not going down that rabbit hole. All I will say is, I have a $300 power cord, and it does not reproduce eight notes remotely as well as the Sigma power cord does.

Designers design to a price point, lets not forget that. And if a $100 power cord can reproduce triple tonguing (as heard in Scheherazade, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, RCA Living Stereo), then the designer has no need to have a $1,000, $3,000 or whatever cost power cord. It’s hard enough for many electronics to reproduce things like triple tonguing, never mind the power cords.

But some people don’t care about triple tonguing, legato or staccato, or diminished eighths. That’s fine for them. I do want to hear these things on the disc because they are is part of the musical composition. If it’s there, I want to hear all the pauses, rests that make the composition come alive. 50%?? 60%?? Not good enough. When I’m at the symphony, I hear 100%. I want my stereo to reproduce that as closely as possible.

I do get why people stop at a certain level. That is not what I am arguing against. I am arguing against people who have never heard what can be reproduced and yet still scream "Snake Oil". How do they know?? They’ve never, EVER heard the product. Anyone’s better products, for that matter!

It’s like telling me that a Corvette drives as well as a Lamborghini, even though you’ve never even sat in either vehicle, much less driven one. People would be laughed out of the racing car community if they ever made a statement that "The Corvette is just as good as the Lamborghini.Pardon me, you’re asking if I’ve ever driven one - or both - of them??? Why, no, I haven’t. But I’m certain of what I’m talking about..." Laughed. Out.

This reminds me of something I learned when I was young. Other kids would come to the house, and my mother would offer them food - usually including a vegetable (my mom was a nutritionist). One of the kids would invariably say, "I hate_______(broccoli/lettuce/ spinach)."  My mom would then ask - in a very neutral tone - "Have you had it before?" And I knew what was coming. I would turn to my sister and say, "DUCK. HERE IT COMES." And they'd say, "No, I've never had it." And them mom would say, "Then you don't know what you're talking about!!! Shut your mouth until you've tried it!!!"  (I suspect my mom must have known Ivor Tiefenbrun, the Linn founder, who said exactly the same thing.)

'Nuff said!

Pro or against expensive cables. I don't understand the arguing over it. If something sounds better to you on your system, use it. If it doesn't,  don't use it. What's better for me may not be better for you. If something does work out well, I like hearing about it. If someone else wants to trash your good experience,  I don't want to hear about it.

Hallo, for people who followed this topic, I would just like to say that I finally opted for the Hijiri HDG Million digital cable, and I'm happy with the change. It was definitely worth the investment, proving, in my system at least, that the digital link is just as important as other cables, affecting the sound. Now the sound is much smoother, the lower frequencies are deep but never boomy, the higher frequencies are smooth but clear (I love the cymbals), and the midrange, especially vocals, is enchanting. The soundstage has also improved considerably over my Furutech Ag cable I previously used. If I had never tried the Hijiri, I'm sure I would be able to enjoy music with Furutech as well - it's just that once you try something better, there's no going back.... ;-)

Expensive cables are boring. Expensive components are cool.

@serblinfan 

Fantastic! Glad it worked out for you. Thanks for the update.

Thank you! You guys have all been very helpful, so I thought I should share how it all ended for me, since I kept you occupied with comments for quote some time :-) 

... it's just that once you try something better, there's no going back.... ;-)

                                                       +1

                                             Happy listening!

@serblinfan 

Thanks for sharing. My first digital cable upgrade was really eye opening.