07-03-13: Noromance Open question: what sounds better? All other things being equal, NM10/3 copper coming directly from the breaker box and terminated at the amp/source in an IEC plug OR NM10/3 terminating at a good quality recepticle with a $10,000+ power cord?
Interesting philosophical question.
My guess is that in those cases where a difference is perceivable between the two alternatives (which is not to say that a difference will always or even usually be perceivable), more often than not the good quality receptacle + $10,000 power cord will be preferable. The main reason being better rejection of EMI/RFI that may be coupled to or from the power cord and other parts of the system. That would include rejection of noise that would otherwise be generated within the connected component, fed back into its power cord, and radiated from there to other components, with unpredictable sonic effects.
Other variables, such as differences in resistance and voltage drop, and differences in responsiveness to abrupt changes in demand for current, would seem likely to be negligible between the two alternatives. And if there were any differences between the two alternatives with respect to those variables, the resulting sonic effects would certainly figure to be dependent on the designs of the specific components that are involved, IMO.
Of course, power cords providing quality shielding and noise rejection can be had for vastly less than $10,000.
Open question: what sounds better? All other things being equal, NM10/3 copper coming directly from the breaker box and terminated at the amp/source in an IEC plug OR NM10/3 terminating at a good quality recepticle with a $10,000+ power cord?
@Bo1972, there are many out there who believe in listening with their eyes. They let specifications tell them what they can and cannot hear. Go figure.
The funny thing is that I do not care about changing their perception of cables, but they seem hell bent on changing my perception of cables. I tend to just avoid those sites.
@Jmcgrogan2, this was new for me. If you were not allowed to have your own oppinion. And they really believe that cables do not matter. They do not want to talk about it. How stuppid you can be? I Always say; more than 90% of everything in sound and vision is not that special. But......I Always want to Judge first before I know how good or bad it is. And wenn I do not know it, I say: I can not say anything about it. How simple things can be....
@Bo1972, I have found that more audio/video websites despise cables than those that discuss differences. Audiogon is one of the few where cable differences are allowed to be discussed. There are still a couple of naysayers here who pop up from time to time, but this site certainly isn't overrun by naysayers as the majority of other sites are.
One day ago I was on the AVS website. There was a discussion about the Plasma's ZT60/VT60 and F8500. So I thought I will make an account as well. Mannnnnnn I was very popular.....hahahahahaha. I asked people with there expierence in HDMI cables. I said I tested many and there is one which is by far the most convincing. They all believe in calibrate your screen but not in differences between hdmi cables. They did not appriciate my thoughts about cables. I even got banned from the website. And no I did not insult any person. Maybe a website not for persons like me? I guess Audiogon is a different kind of website, or am I wrong?
@ Bo1972, Thanks Bobby, As you see from the post above, It may be a couple of months on the Tara cobalt review, I will let all of you know my impresseions with a review.,, cheers!
@ Zd542, Hi, Thankyou so much in your interest of the sound of the Taralabs cobalt power cord I just bought, I will post my thoughts latter on the sound of the cord, might be fricken november!, my amp will not be back till mid august or september, then I have to break in a renewed Krell 700cx, the cables again, etc... other words my friend, A real pain in the butt I will be going thru here!, As I said, I am litterally getting ready to ride off into the sunset!, The Krell was only 8 years old!, I need it to get ready to last!, cheers!
Hi Zd542, My Amp is at Krell, even thou I will be useing the cobalt power cord on my digital player, with out the amp, LOL!, I currently have no tunes!, However, I do want to clear one thing up here, the conversation above I do not remotely fall in any of the catorgorys of people at all, I use a full loom of Taralabs best cables period, I am very happy with the out come of the music!I do not change cables!, I am simply adding more of the matching cables of what I do own! I Am very, very Happy with my set!,, The funny thing is, I have said this many, many times!, I am building a system that I can Ride off into the sunset with!, there you go, I do not have the ocd, obsession, or what ever else there is to say!, I do not care what comes out tomorrow that is better!, a great sound for today will never become obsolete tomorrow! and at the end of the day, my set has complete balance, I have been doing this for so long, and specialize in resonance tunning, that I have never seen a dealer, or distributor do a better set than what I have ever built!, no offense!, please, I am sorry to believe that, I have traveled litterally half the total united states, gave many siminaires in my time about sound systems, etc..., Bo1972, you were not aware you were talking to an ex audio proffesional like your self!, Its ok, I do not want a pissing contest with no one!, I am just tring to have music in my home that does make me and my wife Happy!, cheers genleman!, Happy listening!
I am aware of the reason why people change so often with cables. And yess they are nog happy with there set. Many people can not hear directley all the parts in audio what should be there. Wenn they are nog happy with the high freq. for example, they focus only on this part. Wenn they change a cable, source or amp and they fixes this problem. Some time later they get aware of another flaw. It is the combination of the limited knowledge of the people who buy it ( they are Always responsible for there own sold stuff) and they people who sell it. 2 months ago at the show were I was I made on monday a tour with my own cd's. Mannn I was listening to flaw's of other distributers. Many of them really do not understand music and audio. Here is were the problem starts!!
I know its probably not broken in yet, but I was just wondering what you think of your new PC so far?
Bo1972,
"Many people who say my hobby is audio often are not even happy with it. This says a lot. So be aware!!!"
In many cases, I think people expect too much from an audio system. When that happens, they don't look at things with a "healthy" mindset. There's no better example than cables. When you first start out, most people think its crazy that cables will make a difference you can hear. (I'm no exception). Then when you are to see they do make a difference, people tend to become excited over this and forget the rest of the system. When that happens they have no focus and forget its very important to have balance in a system.
"Wenn people say: audio is my hobby. Many times I have my doubts. I did visit people with audio sets over 70.000 euro and they had about 30-40 cd's. I saw it as my job to let them know that at the end it should be about music, never about audio."
You're absolutely correct. Its one of the biggest reasons people fail or give up on audio. There's no sense running around with the same handful of audiophile recordings to test equipment if thats not what you want to listen to. A system needs to be built around your musical tastes and the recordings you listen, to in order for you to be happy.
Music is my biggest hobby. Wenn people say: audio is my hobby. Many times I have my doubts. I did visit people with audio sets over 70.000 euro and they had about 30-40 cd's. I saw it as my job to let them know that at the end it should be about music, never about audio. Because audio is only a system what can let you hear your personal favorite music. Many people who say my hobby is audio often are not even happy with it. This says a lot. So be aware!!!
It can be an addictive hobby. A few times I needed to let people know that it is only material. Nothing more. Sometimes people are almost obsessed like they need to have it. At those moments I try to get them on there feet again. Then I put the mirror right up in there faces.
@ Bo1972, Forgive me Bobby, This Is my first a/c power cord, and for it to be one of the state of the art power cords out there,is quite exciting for me! you know how it is to be an audiophile with a new profound up-grade in sound!, Like a kid at christmas time!, yipeee!
@ seikosha, Hi, my Taralabs cobalt a/c power cord come in today!, To my supprise, It had serial numbers on it!, I called Taralabs a.s.a.p., they told me the original owners full name, and that it was made in january,2013!, and it has the top of the line oyaide plugs!,, mmm, maybe their system is full proof!, I will call Taralabs back next week and add my name on their system for this cobalt power cord and the zero gold i/c that I have as the second owner of both!,BTW, this power cord is huge!, the biggest girth I have ever seen!,, Happy listening, I am pumped!
@ Seikosha, I believe your theory!, Its a gamble!, I can tell you In my case, I have been listening to Taralabs since their company started back in 1985!, I hope being this familar with their sound can help me determine a fake or not!, I have talked to people that got took on a fake, they did not like the sound what so ever!, when they went a listened to the real mccoy, then they knew for sure!, the serial numbers help, but as you explained they are not full proof!, The best way to get a real cable is to buy from the factory like I do most of the time!, the i/c that I have was originally sold at Hanson audio, their in kettering, OH , Thats were I bought it to, Taralabs with the serial nuber told me that was the original place it was shipped from their factory, the original buyer traded in the zero gold 1-meter for a long 3-meter Tara onyx, that does sound better useing very long runs!, 2-meters and down, of course the zero gold sounds better!,,cheers!
I'm not sure I understand how serial numbers can really stop fakes. If the company making the fakes knows that the serial number on a legitimate interconnect is 27543 and they put that number on their fake, when a customer calls up and says "I have 27543 is it legit?", the answer will be yes right?
I suppose if the numbers are all associated with a registered owner and the subsequent owners all re-register, you could then start to catch fakes or alternatively if you started to see a pattern of the same serial numbers starting to appear on the same models of IC's or Speaker Cables, you'd know you had a problem.
Being active in the watch collecting community, I've seen this occur with watches...over time repeating serial numbers revealed batches of fakes, but it took awhile before it was discovered and I've seen watch manufacturers label a watch as legitimate that was later found out to be fake after it was openened up and more carefully inspected.
Bottom line, it takes more than the printing of a serial number on a product to stop a fake.
Bo1972.....I use (and sell) the PAD LE 2013 AC cord and it is one of the best UNTIL you listen to the Pranawire Satori AC cord and it makes the PAD cord sound muted! And the Satori is near the bottom of the Pranawire line, have not even wanted to try their top of the line ($15,000) AC cord. And yes the Satori costs more than the LE cord.
Hi,john is correct!, Taralabs had to put serial numbers on their cables, dateing back a few years ago, my zero gold I/c, and my the one has serial numbers on them, before I took delivery of the zero gold, I authenticated the cable with Taralabs before final payment!, All of my cables are real!, Taralabs are coppied with fake cables out there big time!, as john said, buyers beware, look for the serial numbers on the i/cs and speaker cables!, the a/c power cables, I do not believe they have serial numbers, but their is a way to authenticate the cable, when my cobalt comes tomorrow, Taralabs will tell me on the phone if its genuine!, I have not made them aware of me buying a cobalt yet!, of course they get up-set because they did not make money!,they do not say nothing bad, but you can get the vibe!, LOL! cheers
06-26-13: Johnsonwu $14950 a meter. Wonder how many Chinese knock off artists are reading this.
Tara Labs is not immune to fraudulent cables. They have the same problem with fake cables on the market as Cardas, Audioquest, XLO, MIT and many of the other big manufacturers. Buyer beware.
@ Bvdiman,, Hi, The sellers user name is rebel721, I do not see eany more cobalts for sale, If I were you, I would send him an audiogon message to his user name, He is a really nice guy, his real name is Robert, I know his last name as well, to be polite, I will not post his last name here,when I talked to him by phone last saturday and made a deal, and I paid for the cable the same day, He told me that he had 1 cobalt left!, He said another buyer a few days earlier bought 3 of the cobalts at the same time!, and yes, the up-graded oyaide plugs were done at the factory!, you may tell him audiolabyrinth sent you,or my name keith, the guy who bought one of his cobalts saturday, the cobalt should be here friday!, yipee!, thankyou for the congrats!, However, My krell 700cx is at krell getting totally renewed, it is only 8 years old, but I had a bias problem that another company failed to fix!, so, since shipping is so high on a 180 pound amp, I asked Krell for the works!, that way i will not have to worry no more!, new caps, software, etc... you get the picture!, It is going to be exspensive!, But I love the sound of this amp, so there you go, Its worth it to me!, please post back with what happens with a cobalt for you, good luck!, cheers!
Audiolabyrinth, Yeah that same ad., congrats on what I think is a good buy for a superb cord! Bet it will sound great on your cdp, but on amps too, I've always found good PCs to have equally profound an effect! Enjoy.. :)
*Btw you bought the 1m/$1000 one? Meaning the 6ft/$1900 Cobalt piece still available? And the upgraded plugs, are they retrofitted by factory or seller? Thanks.
Bo1972, The Taralabs cobalt power cord that I just bought has the same Oyaide plugs!, I have the up-graded version, not the standard version wattgate plugs. cheers!
Nooo, I have the LE 2013 version. It is about 4000 dollar. I have it connected with the best Oyaide F1 plugs. The Wattgates are not in the same league.
Hi, I am building a so called super system, for what my family makes for money a year, It will be for us, now to clear my name even further of being crazy!, I also own the matching interconnect to the cobalt power cord, the Taralabs Zero Gold that retails for a whoping $14,950.00 before taxes a meter!, I bought my Taralabs zero gold for $5,665.00 free shipping-no pay-pal fees for that as well!, As you can see here on the audiogon, this interconnect is selling right now on the gon for $8,000.00 and $8,200.00,, LOL!, this should do it!, This should clear my name of being crazy!, I have been blessed by God himself of these deals of a life time!, and I am very thankful to God!, you should hear this system!, It is off the chain real sounding!,, cheers, and Happy listening!
@ Johnsonwu, Hi, I hate the high prices of top performing cables!, I believe they, like most top componets are marked up atleast 500%!!!, Do not let Bo1972 fool all of you here!, He bought the p.a.d. 25th anniversary limited edition power cable that cost as much as my power cable, If I am not mistaken,I believe it retails for even more!, I wanted to go thru the wow factor with this a/c power cord, in the past, I did not have good luck with power cords, that was back in the 90s!, I only rented alot of them from the cable company back then, I am litteraly going from a stock power cord on an ayon 2s to the Taralabs cobalt power cord!, I have never owned a after market power cord in my life!, so, I hope you guys wish me the best on being satiesfied with this addition to my system!,,, @ Bvdiman, Hi, I enjoy saving money as well as the next person!, The Taralabs cobalt power cord list for $5,450.00 for the up-graded oyaide terminations!, you seen the cobalt classified!, Guess what!, I bought from the very same seller!, But the blessing of it all is that I did get the up-graded terminations, but I bought a 1-meter Taralabs cobalt for a $1,000.00 free shipping, no pay-pal fees!!!!, Now, I do not know about you, but to have the $5,450.00 sound on my digital player, The audiophile disease got the best of me!, I have waited a very, very long time to get this a/c power cable, the buy was a deal in of life time!!!, now do all of you think I am crazy?, LOL!, maybe like a fox!!!, cheers!
The Tara Labs Cobalt AC cord listed here last week for $1,900 w/upgraded plugs was quite a steal imo. Been eyeing that too for my brother's use, but gone now.
Go A head Bo1972, Do not let everyone think I am crazy for getting a $5,000.00 a/c power cord!, tell them what your Purist Audio Design Limited edition power cord cost!!!, I believe it cost more than mine!!!, give them the u.s.d. price, or they can find out on their own!!LOL!, I my self am not about what something cost!, Its about Quality as you said!, This power cable has it in spades!,, cheers!
At this moment I prefer Audioquest, but wenn I find something better I will choose that one. I do not care about the brand or name. I just want the best. Audio is just like a formula one team. You cannot be the best every year. Time and technique Always will go on. The only thing that counts is to get the best for my clients and myself for the money we spend. That is why you need to test a lot for new products. The thing I hate most in this business is that there is a lot of shit for too much money. Far over 90%. In the installermarket you find it a lot. Sometimes I would like to beat this people up. They make often very worse products for even a high price.
"I love audio so much, because I love to test. And Always looking for the best. This testing will never stop untill I die."
Yes, but be careful. When Audiolabyrinth catches you saying Audioquest is the best, even better than Tara, the day may come too soon. When he finds out that I use my Tara cables in my #2 system, and my AQ cables in my #1 system, maybe he'll get me too. LOL!
Not Always, but often it is more easy to get a higher level with exeptional good cables. Ofcourse you have to find them first. Because I still say: far above 90% of everything in audio it not that good for the money. Wenn you know those exeptional good things it is easilly to get a much higher level. I never say to my clients you have to buy this. I only say; just take a listen. Compare and make up your mind. My technical support is a person who is very talented. He modyfied many amps and sources. And yes it make big improvements for small prices. But the same about cables. The level in black what I have now I never heard this with the most expensive poweramps and sources. Wenn I do not use My Redwood and LE cables it is gone. At the end you listen to all the parts in your system including the acoustics. But wenn you use all the differentn tools well you can get a stunning level in sound. Wenn cables did not mater that much I would not use them. First I test and what to know what it can do and how good it is compared to there competitors. That is why you Always need to test many different options.
Indeed we do live in an age of excess. And irrationality. And psycho-OCD. I remember seeing a Peter Belt demo of the little foil triangles. I heard an improvement! The thing is, there is no way putting tiny foil triangles on the windows could have changed the sound so utterly. Something else was at play. Ever read a few pages in a book and then re-read them a minute later - whole different world, isn't it?
Bo1972, you said: "Always choose for the more expensive cable with less expensive amp or source. Thta is an honnest way. This is how I sell cables."
QED.
I'd rather spend money where it matters, better tubes, caps, amps, equipment than blow it on cables. It's not so much that I'm skeptical, it's more that it is a ludicrous expense and I couldn't justify it.
It is not about the price, it is about the level in sound quality you get for a certain amount you want to spend to the whole package. That is why I Always use blind auditions. I did many a-b blind tests whith cheeep cables and a expensive amp or source with a much less expensive amp or source witht an expensive cable. Then I aks what do you like more. These days the quality is so good of a few cables thay all people Always choose for the more expensive cable with less expensive amp or source. Thta is an honnest way. This is how I sell cables. Why? Because I want every person to get the best quality for the money they spend. Nothing more, nothing less. My Pass Labs X250.5 with a Purist Audio LE 2013 wins with ease of my older XA100.5 set with less expensive cables. Superior blacks, much better focus, more resolution, more control and even more 3d touchable image. I love audio so much, because I love to test. And Always looking for the best. This testing will never stop untill I die.
$5000 for 6 feet of power cable?! My entire rig cost that! Just dump the wall outlets and run the NM10 to a home made distribution box using hospital grade outlets and hook your gear into that. Or hard wire everything doing away with sockets and cables!
I prefer and use Purist Audio Design powercables. The powercables of Audioquest are not good enough. As you know I am only interested in the best. BECAUSE GOOD NEVER WIL BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME.
@ bo1972, Hi, you confirmed that the progress happened in the last few years, just as I suspected!, Thats great!, I would like to go and hear some of the new audioquest cables, just to see how far they came along!, However, I just bought the top of the line Taralabs cobalt a/c power cord today!, retail $5,000.00 for 6ft!, Its said this power cord out performs most power cords at eany price point!, well see!, I just want it to sound good for me!, Thanks Bo1972, cheers my friend!
Audioquest made an exeptional progress in the last 5-6 years. They were fine cables but not exeptional. But these days they deliver stunning cables. With the best blacks and the best 3d touchable image.Wenn I compare them with Kimber, it looks if those people were sleeping.
@ Bo1972, Audioquest must have came a very long way since I last listened to one of their cables!,I suppose a cable brand could get better over 10 years, thats the last time I gave all their models a spinn!,, cheers!
These days Audioquest is my favorite brand in cables. Because it has all properties what should be there in a balanced audio set. They only thing what they cannot do; making exeptional good powercables like Purist Audio makes. I tested them, but Purist Audio is superior in every aspect. In 2 weeks I will meet Bill of Audioquest. I will tell him they have to get back tot the drawing table.
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