Jsonic makes a good point. For whatever reasons, many musicians and their work are looked upon as something sacred. Wasn't one of the original intents of the music to make money? Yeah I know, artists don't care about money. BS!! The title of the third Mothers of Invention album says it all.
Regarding the tour circuit I agree. Keith, Mick, Roger, Pete, et.al., do the Metamucil commercials, dye your hair, go for the Botox shots, but stay home. I know you sell a lot of tickets but PT Barnum had it right. |
So at what point is an artist deemed irrelevant, and when should they stop doing what they love?
Because an artist is no longer handsome, or writing songs about teenage lust, underage drinking, or fighting with their mom and dad, they should just die! Maybe Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Nick Drake et al had the right idea albeit unconcious.
It verges on the hieghts of stupidity to expect someone like Bob Dylan, Pete Townsend, B.B. King, or Carole King to quit because someone who has never done anything relevant decided that they are no longer relevant.
If Bob Dylan loves to play concerts and fans continue to show their love for his concerts by buying tickets, good for Bobbie! When people dumber than the geniuses here decide Bob et al are no longer relevant they will discontinue the purchase of tickets and these gross offenders will stay in the old folks home where they belong. Until then, fans like me can continue to enjoy the shows and the new music.
FWIW my wife and I are going to see Gordon Lightfoot in the UP in a couple of weeks. No he can't hit the high notes he used to hit with ease, but we still enjoy the show, and he does too. |
Easy Nrchy. If you're directing your vitriole at me, you need to read a bit more carefully. I never said stop doing it and/or questioned the relevancy. BTW, personal attacks are unnecessary.
Try decaf at the Gordon Lightfoot concert. Maybe he can hit the high notes but you can't hear them. :-))) |
Tell 'em Nrchy -- Once a fan, always a fan. And the reason the old songs/artists are revered like Gods? Because many of them had and still have more writing AND performing talent than most of the overproduced musicians today (although there are many great ones). I'll listen to Dylan and the Stones live anyday over just about anyone beacause they are still great. |
Audiofeil I'm not sure what you might have said, but I think it's more critics that deem the aging musician irrelevant. I was thinking of many who have condemned artists for supposedly not putting out material as good as their 'last LP.'
I'm not sure that there is a critic anywhere that has ever really added anything to the musical landscape! BUT maybe some of the earlier comments got me thinking along those lines...
Should any one of us be turned away from our jobs because we are aging, or not as handsome/pretty as we were in our prime, whenever that was... I'm still waiting. How did I get to be over the hill without ever making it to the top??? |
Nrchy,
Good comments. I've been collecting music since the late 1950's. I still purchase many of the newest releases including the stuff from Dylan, Gabriel, Young et.al. Much of the current music from older artists is excellent; some even exceeds, IMO, quality of their earlier work. However, that is not the case with all artists. I will single out The Who here for argument's sake. There, and in my opinion again, has been nothing substantial released from these guys in over 20 years and now they are going on tour with only 2 original members to rehash "Won't Get Fooled Again" and "See Me, Feel Me"? Sorry Rog and Pete, stay home. Unfortunately, The Who is not alone.
I'm not a critic but I know what I like. I've seen most major bands, except the Beatles, multiple times and as painful as it may seem, we can't go home. Although it might be nostalgic watching some of these folks perform, it is often painful watching fat old bald guys trying to recapture fled youth.
To address your question, we should not be turned away from our jobs because we are aging. However, I would expect to be turned away if the quality of my work was unacceptable.
I appreciate your clarification. Thank you.
|
So yesterday I saw Dylan pimping IPODS on TV, is this a bit of a Hypacritical move on his part?
To take a stand against bad recordings and then market the Ipod seems a bit odd, maybe he smoked to many joints to not understand that as long as the IPOD is marketed by folks like himself nothing is going to change.
No matter how you feel about my opinion I think Bob Jumped the Shark and sold out. |
I bet he's devastated to hear of your turn around! |
The iPod and quality of recordings are completely seperate issues.
Many people have multi-thousand dollar systems are very interested in the quality of recordings but will use an iPod.
As for Dylan marketing iPods do you think the vast majority of younger folk even know who he is?
A high end system and iPod can live in tandem-they do for many folks. I love my iPod.
Dylan never made any comment about sound quality of MP3's etc.-he did make a very vague comment about how CD's sound in comparison to what he heard in the studio but as I've stated before it is so vague as to be almost irrelevant.
I rather suspect as a teenager listening to distant radio stations Bob wasn't questioning the mids, highs and bass quality.
Still a vague comment has got Audiophiles foaming about the mouth and his appearance in an Ad has them screaming "Judas".
Forty years on and things ain't changed much-people still screaming about their sets of values, their ideals and their perceptions at a man who simply couldn't function if he had to consider that type of crap.
If your upset because Dylan has promoted iPods then fine-it's not the end of the world, his music remains as it is.
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Dylan was commenting on the plasticity and hollowness of alot of pop artists out there these days, that they lack substance and depth and that ultimately this music has nothing to offer. Most of it he feels is crap and therefore should be "free" cause it has no value!
Dylan is an intriguing figure. Complex and has a high regard for artists who have "something to say"
At one time i used to think that his songwriting was just a trick and that it didnt make sense at all but today i believe his lyrics especially on certain albums are rich in depth, insight and complexity and can be received and understood for people from different angles and perspectives, on different levels, and yet at the same time are understood universally. He's witty, sharp, sensitive, tough, wise, generous, irritated by the media machine,friendly.
When all is said and done, i think it really is fair to say that he is a musical genius, for sure a lyrical genius, a rare "accident" that happened in our time. It is his story, together with his discography that keeps me entertained forever! Of course, i think its true that you either get dylan or you dont. |
So I guess he will donate all the money he has made from his music over the last 20 years to a good charity then? |
The past 20 years has seen the onset of a cultural dark ages. Anyone disputing this simply has not been following the Whitney biennials of the past 20, maybe 40 years. It is obvious that pop/conventional tastes have deteriorated to the level of "digesting with the stars". Be that as it may, in the world of high art, particularly 'classical' or high culture music (which includes forms of improvised music such as some jazz, IMO), the case id quite different. There has been a tremendous amount of achievement in the past 20 years, despite its difficultly in being recorded, and recorded well. Dylan was speaking about his area of knowledge directly: rock/folk/pop AMERICAN music. He still speaks with authority about american culture, and knows it better than almost anyone. However do not think that this applies to the high culture of the world in a more general sense.
In the past 20 years art has fallen to the realm of the people, instead of being a tool to raise people up to the level of high art. |
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RE:
In a recent interview Bob Dylan called music recordings "Atrocious" and went on to add that no good music has been made in the last 20 years, he went on to add that downloads should be free because the music is not worth anything anyway.
I have never really liked Dylan except for a few songs, but it is nice to see someone take a stand on how badly most music is recorded.
I highly doubt that dylan is an obsessive audiophile type who splits hairs about recording quality, about vtf, azimuth or things like this. My memory is a bit fuzzy but i remember reading about him exploring music and having a stack of cassettes on a table and exploring music like this! I would venture to say as a dylan fan that dylan is interested in "the song", how it hits him viscerally, whether from vinyl, cassette, am radio or 8 track.
When he lays down tracks its usually very quickly, the first or second take! Sometimes if he feels the song should come from a different angle he might go back and try it a different way but for the most part they are recorded quickly without alot of fuss.
It's nice to see someone not obsess about sound quality!
. |
"music is not worth anything anyway" I'm sure his assets would show just how much it isn't worth. I think the old duffer is talking out his ass.
How pissed would he be if he missed one of his royalty checks? Anyone can say anything but reality is usually a bit different. |
When the war is Viet-Nam and civil rights violence ended, his 15 minutes were up. He had a very small window. I think his latest outburst is driven by envy and sour grapes, because now, there are a lot of people with little or no talent making tons of money.
I have several of his albums, but seldom play them. He seems dated. |
perhaps he meant that most music is "atrocious". |
Rok2kid-are you being serious? |
Rpeluso:
Yes I am. He was a protest / social critic type performer. He delivered a message. When the object of the message / protest fades, so do the protesters.
BTW, The first LP I ever purchased was one of his. Loved him back in the day, but that day is long gone. The 2nd LP I ever purchased was by Joan Baez. Shows you where my head was, and I was in the Army!!
Cheers. |
Rok2id I think you are leaving lots of great music on the table based on incorrect assumptions you seem to have, but that's my opinion and your choice.
r |
Rok2id, I think you are confusing the mass media's representation of Bob Dylan with Bob Dylan the artist. Limiting him to a protester/social critic is like saying Louis Armstrong only sang "Hello Dolly". |
Onhwy61 / Rpeluso:
I guess I will have to haul out my box set and get to know Mr Dylan again. My memory could be faulty. After all, it was a few centuries ago when I was 'young'. I did see him live once in concert in Nurnberg, Germany.The concert was held at the same stadium that the nazi party rallies were held. Sort of ironic. Thanks for your posts. |
Rok2id-I suggest you take a listen to Time Out Of Mind. Or Modern Times. Enjoy. |
Rok2id-I have to say I envy your position of not being familiar with Dylan's music from the past 15-20 years, there is so much in there that I really love and admire and respect, I wish I could find an artist like that who I am not familiar with and then take the time to discover the treasure trove that awaits me. I hope you derive pleasure from the discovery.
Richard |
Bob Dylan's new album Tempest is now released and it is really really good. His voice is of course limited and harsher, rougher etc than ever, but his singing is, to me, almost better than ever anyway. Just listen to the last track of the album, Roll on John, it's fantastic, and the music is too! Incidently, that song is written about John Lennon, who once said about Dylan's voice (somelike like this): "It's not what he sings that's so special, it's how he does it."
And I agree, I love his way of singing, his phrasing, both on his new album and how he as a live artist comes up with these witty and always surprisingly new things to his old songs. Some songs a drastically rearranged and some are not, but no matter what, every version of each song is unique. You just have to listen closely, and maybe even observe his moves on stage, especially these years, he's not as dull or stiff as people say. He is great! |
