Actually, Judyazblues said it most imperfectly. Cynical, totally useless and unhelpful comment; in typical fashion.
Timothyd11, I admire your willingness to ask for advise and to admit that you simply don't know the answer. That is much more than many audiophiles with a macho attitude about what is "best" are willing to do; they are usually totally clueless about what is, in fact, good or not. Like the stereotypical (pun intended) guy who refuses to ask for directions when lost, and simply drives around and gets even more lost.
First of all, you are way ahead of the game in being confident that cables make an important difference. As you may or may not know there is a contingency out there that is even more clueless than the macho types with their insistence that cables don't make a difference. Having said all that here are my honest opinions about your situation and your actual questions:
- no reason to have to "trust" dealers to take back cables. Simply find out ahead of time before laying out the cash; nothing wrong with that.
- no, I don't think the components that you have justify the expense of $1000 on cables. They are good components, but if your goal is the best possible sound for the buck, $1000 is better spent in other ways including possible component upgrades.
- if you really want to "be done with it" and you can't get a refund for the Kimber, don't worry too much, you could have done A LOT worse; the Kimber is good stuff and tried-and-true.
- if, as you said, you could not hear (remember) the differences between the Nordost and the Kimber, my brutally honest and personal opinion is that you are not ready to play the cable game at the $1000 level YET. There are many options available (especially used) for a fraction of that amount that will help you educate yourself as to the possibilities re synergistic interactions and simply to cement for yourself what kind of sound you actually like (Anti-cables, Signal Cable, among many others).
Good luck. |
Oh Tim, Tim, Tim. Judyazblues said it perfectly. Naturally the guy in the shop is going to swear you'll ber happy. HE'S TRYING TO SELL A CABLE!!! However, Zd542 says, "don't get sucked into the cable trap". Good cables do make a difference. My advice Tim: EVERYTHING is system dependent. What works well in one system doesn't in another. I've recently been shocked to hear that in my system, an interconnect costing half the price of my beloved reference interconnects, has won my heart. The amount you spend doesn't mean s***. It's how a certain cable works with the equipment it's connected to that does. No one wants to pay outlandish prices for cables but in the end guys, it's not snake oil if it sounds better. |
"My only concern / curiosity is that I am "starving" or "short changing" the woofer by splitting up the 8TC through internal bi-wiring, and adversely affecting the sound because of it.
I may look into "renting" an internally biwired 12TC from The Cable Company and listening for any differences. If I hear none I'm done."
You're not starving your woofer with the 8TC's. Its easy enough to check, though. Just but the jumpers back and connect everything to just one set of binding posts.
No reason to upgrade to the 12TC. Your equipment is very good but when you start to consider cables that cost more than the equipment, it makes much more sense to upgrade active components. Don't get sucked in to the cable trap. |
So I returned the Purple Flares and bought an internally bi-wired 8 foot pair of Kimber Kable 8TC and a KK Silver Streak interconnect.
I liked the fact that there is a lot of positive information out there about the 8TC and did not like that the jury was still out on the Purple Flares.
I received the cables the other night and was only able to listen a few hours last night...
Sounded terrific to me!
But I don't know if they sound slightly better or slightly worse than the Purple Flares because I was not able to compare them side by side and too much time has passed since returning those other cables.
I think I'm done and satisfied.
For one thing, I have a VERY modest low end setup in the world of hi end stereos. Does it make sense to spend as much on cables as each component? I'm reaching that point.
Another thing, my speakers are small and, I understand, quite efficient - would I benefit from or need bigger gauge cables of better quality or is what I have enough for my small, modest but good speakers?
My only concern / curiosity is that I am "starving" or "short changing" the woofer by splitting up the 8TC through internal bi-wiring, and adversely affecting the sound because of it.
I may look into "renting" an internally biwired 12TC from The Cable Company and listening for any differences. If I hear none I'm done.
:) |
What is currently bothering me - ELECTRICALLY, single wiring or bi-wiring appears to be the same. Either the low frequency portion and the high frequency portion of the speaker is joined at the speaker through a jumper (single wire) OR it's joined back where it goes into the amp...so I'm having a hard time figuring out just how it would sound different - we're talking electrons - electrons move FFAASSTT!! Like speed of light fast. So please explain HOW bi-wiring improves sound, IF it does. |
Biwiring is a tough call. The difference it makes varies for each system. Most audiophiles, myself included, feel it makes more sense to go with one run of better cable than to buy 2 pairs of lesser cables. There are exceptions, however. In my main system, I use Vandersteen speakers. Biwiring those speakers makes a big difference. More than any other speaker. B&W's are known to benefit from biwiring, but nearly as much. My advice, given your system, would be not to worry about it. If you happen to come across cables you like and they are biwired, get them. Otherwise a single run should be find. If, at some point, you upgrade to more revealing components, it will be more important.
I don't know if anyone has brought up The Cable Company yet. If you don't end up using Audio Connection from my last post, give them a call. They'll send you a bunch of cables to try in your system so you don't get stuck with something you don't like. I use them all the time. Its a great resource. |
Thanks Zd542.
How about with regards to biwiring? Should I lean towards biwired cables if my speakers have that capability? Seems that the majority if people (elsewhere) seem to think it has its benefits. |
"Is this a no brainer and an upgrade from the Nordost Purple Flare speaker cables, despite the near lateral move cost wise?
"
The only no brainer here is to just stop. I don't say it to be mean, but just so you don't go and spend any more money on expensive stuff that won't make your system sound much better than it already does.
I read your original post again and may have a solution for you. I noticed you are in NJ. Get rid of the Nordost if you can. Then just go to or call Audio Connection in Verona. He sells everything you have so he knows it very well. And just ask him for speaker cables that will match well to your speakers and amp. I suspect you can get something like an Audioquest Type 6 or 8 and spend about $100-$200. It will probably sound just as good, if not better than the Nordost. (Just to be clear, I'm making the recommendation in the context of the OP's system. I'm just saying I think the AQ is better for the OP in this application, that's it.) If he happens to recommend something else, that's OK too. He knows what he's doing, and more importantly, you can trust him. I know from experience.
One last thing. You seemed to be concerned that your Rotel gear was about 8 or so years old. Don't be. For the money, you still can't do better. I listed my 1072 on Audiogon for a very high price and it was sold and paid for in under 5 min. I'm still sorry I got rid of it. |
Thank you very much for your replies.
This whole thing has been eating away at me!
I don't mind spending the money I did, but I want to get it as right as possible for the money.
I have done more research and I came upon Kimber Kables 8TC speaker cables.
People seem to have nice things to say about those cables.
For around the same money I spent on the Nordost cables I can get an "internally biwired" 8 foot pair of 8TC speaker cables.
My B&W DM 602 S3 speakers are biwirable.
Is this a no brainer and an upgrade from the Nordost Purple Flare speaker cables, despite the near lateral move cost wise?
It appears I can return the Nordost cables for a refund but most places I have contacted about the Kimber Kables have said store credit only, so if I buy I'm stuck with those.
I don't know if the Cable Company has these exact cables in their "library" for rental. If so I guess that would be the smart choice. Although I lose that money if I make no purchase. Plus I'll be listening to "burned in" cables and comparing them to non burned in / non biwired cables. That may be like apples and oranges but that is kinda the point I guess! |
Are you talking about the dealer you just bought them from?
You didn't ask if you could before you plunked down $1000?
Do you think we have any pull with this dealer?
I believe you're going about this all the wrong way: cart before the horse and all.
Good luck,
Nonoise |
If I bought one more set of cables and compared for 10 days, can I trust MOST dealers to take back the ones I didn't want if I just tell them I preferred something else?
I want to do this...I just DON't want to get stuck with a second set of $1000 cables and interconnects. |
Do yourself a favor and check out the Stereolab/Black Cat website.The designer is always pushing the performance/value envelope!
Plus Chris offers a money back policy!!
*Also just released a new USB cable* |
So now you know why you're "here", on audiogon where you can buy cables for generally 50%. Try 'em and trade 'em with minimal damage. Read, talk, try. There is a synergistic combination that exists for any system (and they're all different) so there is a rational for your/our pursuit..but the perfect system still will always be elusive. There will always be (fill in the blank) that's too expensive - to remain on your "wish list". Relax, it's part of the fun.
Satisfaction will be found in stages, over and over.
Don't obsess, that's when it can get crazy... and expensive. I think of it like searching for the really good $10 -$13 bottle of wine. I don't think I could drink a $300 bottle (well maybe).
Drink responsibly from this musicspring.
Cheers! |
Thanks a lot.
I'm hoping this place will at least let me purchase other cables (Transparent MusicLink / MusicWave) and allow me to return the ones I like least.
Otherwise I may have to find another place with a decent return policy SOON so that I can do the same.
I am not comfortable with the fact that I can't compare - at least between two types of quality cables. |
"I bought the analog interconnect, the speaker cables and the power cord for 2 dollars shy of a Grand after tax!
PLEASE tell me I did alright!"
You did alright!
That said, I think it was a foolish thing to do for a couple of reasons. To start off with, its crazy to buy expensive cables without demoing them first.
"This exact system is no longer in stores and I don't think many places would let me bring my gear in and switch out cables...and it would have been a total hassle even if they would."
Any decent audio store will let you bring your own components in so you can demo equipment with your own products. As far as it being a hassle, I would suggest that it was probably a bigger hassle to earn the $1000 than it would have been to spend a few hours moving your system around.
Also, what you paid for your cables cost several $100 more than either your amp or CD player. The components you have are very good but I don't think but I don't think they justify that kind of investment in cables. |
After you decide which cables to go with,just relax and enjoy for a few months.That cable loom becomes your reference.If you think you can do better,you can experiment with one cable at a time and tweak little by little.It takes time to get things just right. |
I'm thinking about purchasing the Transparent Cables Music Link / Music Wave and equivalent power cords from the same dealer and alternating between them and the Purple Flares every other night after work for about 10 days and then returning the ones I least like for a refund...if they'll let me.
I can't get stuck with both so I have to trust they'll take one set back and refund me. |
I would expect you will like them a lot. The big question is really if you could have been just as happy (or maybe even more happy) for less money. Personally, and it's just me, I wouldn't spend that much without hearing/knowing first. I hope you love them! |
A fool and his money are soon parted |
Actually, I was in the same quandary about 6 months ago. I was hot to buy the Nordost Purple Flair based on briefly hearing it a few times, and before some reviews came trickling in.
Unfortunately, I need at least an 11 ft pair and that was expensive even with a local dealer's discount
However, I thought it might be more economical to go with the White Lighting model But I chucked that idea out the window, and like yourself decided to go further up the Nordost's new LE line, and considered the Red Dawn speaker cable
Interestingly, one of customer service reps, claimed that the Purple Flair was the best value for the buck in the new line. So,far, I have done nothing and am still farting around with an entry level pair of Audio Art SC5 speaker cable I bought about 1 year ago. Not bad, but I know my system deserves better.
I was just about to introduce a new thread about the chaos of budget cables popping up every freakin day. So as Danlib1 suggested just relax and listen to the music.
A reputable audio dealer will generally bend on returns, but I have a hunch you will really like the Nordost PF. Let us know what you experience with them is. If you rave about them, I just might buy a pair of the PF's and be done with it. |
I don't get your post. You bought new cables and you're asking US to assess them for you. You should listen, see if you like what you hear and forget about us. It's your hi-fi. |
Well it seems that your assumption that spending more would make you worry less was incorrect based on this post :)
My advice is to relax and enjoy the music. You've purchased from a reputable manufacturer and nothing WE say will change the sound.
Use your ears and rely on yourself. |
