All I will say is that Wayne's Audio has 102 positive feedbacks with zero negative ones on USAudioMart.
Beware of Wayne's audio - Poor product quality & worst business ethics
I wanted to get a periphery outer ring for my VPI Scout Master. The VPI ring was around 1200 bucks and I couldn’t convince myself to spend that much for something that wouldn’t make a significant night and day difference in sound quality. So I decided to look for other cheaper alternatives and came across Wayne’s Audio. These rings are advertised as “universal rings” and seemed significantly cheaper (almost 1/2 price). I asked around on the VPI forum if anyone used these and someone replied saying he wasn’t happy with the quality. Considering its mostly a “VPI only” forum, I took his comment with a grain of salt and decided to reach out to Wayne audio regarding the “quality concern” and Wayne replied saying his products were top notch and I could return them if I wasn’t happy for any reason. I was convinced and bought the ring. The ring arrived and here are my findings:The ring was much bigger than the VPI Platter. A “centering plate” came with the ring. This plate should be used to center the ring while placing the ring on the platter and then you remove the plate. After placement, when you turn on the tt, the circular motion of platter creates a centrifugal force and since the ring ( which is not exactly the same size of the platter) is being pushed around and hits the sides of the records. Centrifugal force is the same force that makes you feel like you are being thrown out when you sit on a merry go round. If you directly look at the record while its spinning, you could see the ring moving around. I am fairly new to turntables but I assume, vibration control is very important in turntables which is why people buy expensive platforms, better feet, heavy platters and outboard motors. This subtle movement of the ring (being thrown around by the circular motion of the platter) creates micro vibrations by hitting the record. You can clearly see this while the record is spinning. Though the spinning ring looks really cool, it defeats the purpose of anti-vibration and in my humble opinion creates more issues than providing any benefit. To add to this, there was also a small dent on the inside of the ring.My 2 cents - If you are looking for a ring, spend the extra money and find the perfectly sized ring for your platter, probably the one that your tt manufacturer makes. Universal rings sound like a great idea, but in my experience they worsen your sound instead of improving them.When I was in the market to buy a ring, I couldn’t find much reviews on Wayne’s ring, all I saw was cool YouTube videos. I was misled by those videos and ended up buying one. In my humble opinion, you are better off with no ring, than a ring that’s not the same size as your platter.
I reached out to Wayne's audio for a refund. This is where things got a little complicated. I reached out to him with pics and videos explaining why this will not work for my tt explaining the reasons above. I was thinking he'd charge me for 15% restocking fee but he never said anything about a restocking fee and reluctantly agreed for the ring to be sent back. He also emailed me the address the ring should be sent to. I packaged the ring and sent it back to him through USPS. The tracking said the ring was delivered to him but I didnt hear back from him. When I reached out, he said he didnt receive the ring. Although I sent him proof that the ring was sent to the right address and was delivered he said it was probably stolen from his front porch and would not refund the money. After a lot of back and forth emails and phone calls I was able to get 50% of my money back. So in the end, I paid 50% of the cost for a product that I don't even have with me lol. However I learned 2 valuable lessons from this whole experience:
1. Never send anything without "signature reqd" option.
2. When a reputable company sells a product for a higher price, there is probably a good reason behind it. Don't discount that and go for a cheaper alternative as you may at loss in the end. Now I believe a company like VPI would have never done this to me.
I reached out to Wayne's audio for a refund. This is where things got a little complicated. I reached out to him with pics and videos explaining why this will not work for my tt explaining the reasons above. I was thinking he'd charge me for 15% restocking fee but he never said anything about a restocking fee and reluctantly agreed for the ring to be sent back. He also emailed me the address the ring should be sent to. I packaged the ring and sent it back to him through USPS. The tracking said the ring was delivered to him but I didnt hear back from him. When I reached out, he said he didnt receive the ring. Although I sent him proof that the ring was sent to the right address and was delivered he said it was probably stolen from his front porch and would not refund the money. After a lot of back and forth emails and phone calls I was able to get 50% of my money back. So in the end, I paid 50% of the cost for a product that I don't even have with me lol. However I learned 2 valuable lessons from this whole experience:
1. Never send anything without "signature reqd" option.
2. When a reputable company sells a product for a higher price, there is probably a good reason behind it. Don't discount that and go for a cheaper alternative as you may at loss in the end. Now I believe a company like VPI would have never done this to me.
60 responses Add your response
First let me assure people here I am no shill for Wayne's Audio. I've never met him until I bought a ring and a clamp. I have a Music Hall 9.1. I never play a record without it. It fits the discs well and does not slide around. It seems too heavy to resonate or otherwise move. The guide supplied perfectly centers the periphery clamp. I can see it running true. I don't know what is meant by "fit the platter". On my Music Hall the disc comes to the edge of the platter. On my Rega it overhangs the platter by about 1/8". I've been using it for two years and have no complaints. |
Also, always use your credit card to purchase that way you can file a dispute with your credit card co, and they will usually get you your money back, if the claim sounds reasonable and you have some documentation to support your claim, " think judge Judy" , as you said lesson learned, I think we have all gone through trials like these, the best thing you can do is spread the word that these guys are shady individuals, on this and other audiophile sites, in the long run, they will lose out on countless $$ from bad publicity, as i think we are a fairly close knit community! |
I have had no trouble with Wayne's audio. In-fact, they've been very helpful and trusting in sending another ring to try-out w/o additional payment. Quality has been great. NOTE: Since periphery rings are made to be universal they CAN but not always have slight millimeter wobble depending on the thickness of your TT spindle. As perfectionist as I am, I found this slight off-set to be more than tolerable. Another thing you should check prior to purchasing periphery rings from any company is the overall magnetism of your cartridge. If your cartridge's magnetic force is very strong there is a chance it will stick to the outer metallic periphery ring at the beginning of first track. Case and point; my VDH Colibri master sig. sticks to it if within 4-5mm distance of the ring. Having this said, the benefits of Wayne's outer ring (SS-T) clamp was greater for me. Workaround was to play mid-song, start at second track or not use it al all. |
Yes I am going to make a complaint against better business bureau. I got this message today from Usaudiomart (Canuckaudiomart)'s moderators. They are siding with Wayne's audio and they deleted my review that posted for the transaction. "Please do not use the forums to air your beef publicly with Wayne's Audio. We made our decision regarding your dispute with them. We consider this matter settled given the circumstances both parties presented to us. You seem only intent on trying to harm the seller's reputation any way you can. We cannot allow you to besmirch another seller's reputation without proof of wilful wrongdoing. If we see any other public attempt to discredit the seller on our site, we will take a more permanent approach to prevent this from happening." |
audiofool1982 "Although I sent him proof that the ring was sent to the right address and was delivered he said it was probably stolen from his front porch " wchuang868 "I will definitely be waiting for it at my company." How many companies have a front porch ? Place a complaint with the local or state better bussiness bureau . |
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@mammothguy54 if he is not dubious, why is he refusing to go to the post office to give them the tracking number and confirm the address? After several text messages and calls with him, he still believes I sent it the wrong address. Infact I can give anyone the tracking number to make sure it was sent to him (they can confirm) I sent him an email yesterday about why he hasnt reported a theft to the police, if he believes its a theft. he hasnt responded back and he blocked my phone number. What more proof do I want to believe that he is a fraud. |
I have met Wayne and he is an upstanding, honest person. His depth of knowledge is great and he is a very genuine person. I have serious doubts that he has intentionally done anything dubious. Further, his products are well made and at the prices he offers they are a very good value (relative to the high priced models offered from other brands). As others have stated, Wayne's ring is universal and not turntable/platter specific. Properly set on the LP, by using the supplied centering tool, and this very well machined & balanced periphery ring will perform as specified. I would suggest contacting Wayne once again and discussing any and all options. As I stated, he is an upstanding and honest person. |
@bdp24 wrote
I have no direct experience with Wayne's rings, but "Universal" periphery rings are not totally flawed. If the periphery ring is completely concentric and balanced, the outward force away for the center of rotation (spindle) will be equal around the ring's circumference (offsetting opposing forces), therefore, preventing movement even on a frictionless surface. Most issues with "universal" rings can be eliminated with the careful application and use of the centering tool required to center the ring to balance the forces. With respect to cost of manufacturing a periphery ring, please note that to produce a ring you must start off with a solid piece off material and remove approximately 90% of the material. Machining is quite complex to ensure the required tolerances and to prevent warping. The former TTW Audio, who manufactured universal rings and whose primary business was precision parts for the aerospace industry chronicled in great depth the machining challenges of periphery rings. |
audiofool1982, "I don’t know what else to say. I am sure he is refusing to do this because it will prove that he is a fraud. For what its worth, if he feels all this negative publicity is worth the 350 dollars he cheated off of me, so be it. The purpose of this writeup is to have the future wayne’s audio customers think twice before buying Wayne’s audio products." Bad situation, with no winners. Good of Wayne to give his side of the story. On the other hand even if it was stolen, improbable but who knows, what would the thief do with it? Sell it on via Audiogon/eBay?? Looking at it, as Wayne mentions, the original ring does seem to be a tad overpriced for what it is. Is VPI now reading the Linn book of consumer strategy? https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/vpi-periphery-outer-ring-clamp I could probably buy a set of alloy wheels and tyres for less. Or even a whole car. Not to mention an entirely respectable turntable. Anyway, good luck with your efforts. Many of us have been bitten similarly but failed to pursue it. Which is exactly what some unscrupulous traders might be counting on. The best of all worlds would be a satisfactory resolution for both sides and for Wayne to produce a turntable ring in future which sonically equals its far more costly counterpart. |
@barts I asked for the supervisor to print it out on my end. She said she wouldn't be able to give me a print out, but she said if Wayne goes to his post office and just gives them the tracking number, they should just be able to read out the name and address it was sent to. He is refusing to do that (not sure why). But you are right, I never asked him if he filed a police report. I am going to send an email today asking if he filed a police report. If he is not willing to do that, that clearly means he is trying to hide something. And yes if he regularly ships and receives stuff world wide, I am sure he must have a good handle on these things. @zigggi - GREAT QUESTION! lets see if he can come with an answer. |
Seems like several missteps here. How about you have the USPS supervisor print out the COMPLETE tracking info. Send it to Wayne. And ask Wayne why he did not report the theft to the local police? I would suspect that being in business he would regularly be shipping and receiving and have a good handle on his delivery point for your item. Just sayin'. |
Well then, if the Wayne's ring doesn't use the platter edge to secure it in place (as does the VPI), there is nothing to keep it from sliding around on an 11.5" platter when the latter is spinning, which is just what the OP discovered. Sounds like a fatally flawed product! Glad the OP posted this: I was thinking of getting one for my 11.5" TNT-5 platter. For some reason, VPI never made a ring for that size platter (afaik). |
@bdp24 wrote Though it is a buyers responsibility to insure the ring fits his particular platter (as brf---the main man on the VPI Forum---said, VPI has made platters in both 11.5" and 12" diameters), shouldn’t the maker of the ring---designed especially for VPI’s---know which platters his ring fits, and make that info available to the public? That would save he and his customers this kind of hassle.Unlike the VPI periphery ring that relies on the platter's side wall to center the disc on the platter, the Wayne's ring employs a centering tool that allows the ring to be placed on the record's edge. The Wayne's ring can be use with any platter diameter (universal) whereas the VPI ring can only be used with their 12" platter. |
When I return an item to a manufacturer especially when the item is faulty (in this case, the dent), I didn't think it was my responsibility to pay 1. Return shipping 2. Insure the item again 3. Request signature Usually the manufacturer sends a return label and I ship it. However in this case, because I wanted a refund, I acknowledged to pay for return shipping. I've not had any bad experiences with USPS so didnt even really think it was necessary to re-insure the item again. What I didnt realize at that point was - Wayne's audio could be a fraud and lie about receiving the item. Had I known, I'd have requested signature proof. Again a valuable, expensive lesson learned. And hope others learn from my experience too. |
Response to Wayne's audio: I sent you the USPS tracking number. If you plug in this tracking number on their website, it will only show which city and zip code it was delivered to (for security reasons, they dont display the name and exact address of the receiver). This is not something I am making up, anyone can vouch for this. However, if you take the tracking number to a USPS location, and give it to a supervisor, they can pull up the name of the person it was sent to and the exact address. I did this on my end and the supervisor confirmed that it was sent to Wayne's address. I asked Wayne to do the same, but he refuses to do it and still claims I sent it to the wrong address. I don't know what else to say. I am sure he is refusing to do this because it will prove that he is a fraud. For what its worth, if he feels all this negative publicity is worth the 350 dollars he cheated off of me, so be it. The purpose of this writeup is to have the future wayne's audio customers think twice before buying Wayne's audio products. |
Though it is a buyers responsibility to insure the ring fits his particular platter (as brf---the main man on the VPI Forum---said, VPI has made platters in both 11.5" and 12" diameters), shouldn’t the maker of the ring---designed especially for VPI’s---know which platters his ring fits, and make that info available to the public? That would save he and his customers this kind of hassle. |
Hi, Yes, you can pay $1200 for VPI ring or $1350 for Clearaudio ring. My Outer ring is universal and fully comparable with their originally ring; mine can also fit other brand’s platter too. I am the manufacture and I directly sell to the consumers, no middleman. So The rings cost only half of their price but the effect is the same. I have great customer's feedback on eBay,Audiogon & Audio Mart, please review them. Thanks Wayne Waynesaudio.com |
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Testpilot, roxy54, the OP on another forum confirmed that he did not insure the item, nor did he specify that a signature was required. The vendor was willing to take back the item and refund 100% of the money upon receipt of the returned goods. The ring went “missing” and the vendor agreed to refund the OP 50% and the vendor is still out the sold goods. Gotcha, but I still think that he would have looked better by going above and beyond and eating it. That's what exceptional businesses do. |
I think you have 6 months to have paypal or your credit card company cancel that transaction.Also, always use signature required when shipping. 2 times the buyer tried to tell me they didn’t receive the product and then I sent them the signature doc from the delivery company and then the buyer backed off, if I didn’t have that, they would have asked for the money back stating they never received it. IMO, their are products that are better than what the manufacturer provides, power cables for example. I know other people that have purchased tt rings from 3rd parties that are happy with them, so maybe this Wayne’s audio company just makes an inferior product, but that shouldn’t restrict you from buying other products from 3rd parties |
roxy54, the OP on another forum confirmed that he did not insure the item, nor did he specify that a signature was required. The vendor was willing to take back the item and refund 100% of the money upon receipt of the returned goods. The ring went “missing” and the vendor agreed to refund the OP 50% and the vendor is still out the sold goods. |
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audiophool1982, I look at it quite differently. I am also very sorry for your loss of money, as you trusted this man, but in the end, you lost some money, but by his dishonest ways, he lost something far more valuable...his reputation. I hope that he enjoys the few hundred dollars that he pilfered from you with a phony story of porch theft. |
@jetter and thecarpathian, yes you guys are totally right. It was foolish on my part to fall for this. Not only do I not have ring now, also lost my money and shipping cost to top it all off. Now I'll be more careful and this is a lesson for me thats for sure. The intention of my article is to warn others. |
You're right jetter, for me going cheap always cost me more in the long run if I try to fix something I have no business attempting except my ego tells me I can. Most of the time I screw it up more and it cost me more to have it fixed than if I would have left it to the professionals in the first place. I should have likened ordering that universal part to buying a car part on the cheap that wasn't oem. No good can come of it, especially concerning a piece of delicate and expensive audio equipment. |