Best speakers out there for Midrange and Highs

What are your room dimensions and associated gear?  

Any real jazz or Classical  player will tell you music comes from the bottom up .

Thiel CS 1.7 is a floorstanding 2-way with terrific imaging. Can play loud with a couple of subs. Highly recommended. My Gamut L3, Audiovector SR1 Arréte or Lipinski L707 not too bad either.

"Yes, i should have mentioned too.. My room dimensions are 25"Wx30"Lx8"H Right now, I am running BAT Tube Monos, with a Simaudio Preamp and an Esoteric front end."

The Salon 2s should be able to fill your room with sound on their own, but in looking at the current BAT tube offerings I don't see any that output more than 150 watts.  Salon 2s are power pigs that thrive on high-current solid state designs, so I'd have to guess that your issues with them - including light bass output - stem from the relative lack of grunt your amps are providing. 

In my own system I found that they worked very well with a Plinius SB-301, and even better with Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monos that have huge capacitance and transformers.  I'd suggest either getting more efficient speakers that your BATs can drive, or getting more powerful amps that can feed the Salon 2s what they need to be at their best.     

@p59teitel - Yes, that’s correct about the room and your point about larger amps has occurred to me before. (Those amps you mention are beautiful looking by the way) - perhaps in time :).

I’ve tried Pass labs X250.8 and even the X350.5. Both were wonderful amps, and both would take a bit of time to get going, but once warmed up (after about 2.5 hours) each handled the Salons2 very nicely. I think the BATs (mostly because they are tubes) grab the Salon2 earlier and do a great job on their own. But what the 2 x 3,000 Watt F113 can do with bass, it’s hard to beat. First of all, the Salons and the Amps do an even better job on the highs/mids once the bass duty is removed from the equation. Also, one really needs to hear how well the Subs and Salons2 are integrated in the system. Though, Id be open to see otherwise, I really don’t regret the set up as is now.

Really, I just wanted to see if I can spend less for, or get more Midrange/High by possibly eliminating [what I thought was] redundant bass on the Salons2 since I use subwoofers. And lots of speakers were recommended on this thread :) - But it's also Interesting that some people on the thread mentioned having similar Large Speaker/Sub [with active crossovers] set ups, and really like them.

Aside - Interesting who has looked into/heard the Paradigm Personas- specifically the 9H with the 4 built-in subwoofers. I heard them. Sounded very good.

Best speakers out there for Midrange and Highs

Always ESL's, then Planer then Cone drivers, to cover mids and highs.
 It's all about the mass to get the best in mids/highs.
The very best in just the highs are Plasma, but they are HF only, they have no mass as they ionize the air around the Plasma flame and that becomes the diaphragm.

Cheers George

jmarshak, every so often a used Plinius SB-301 pops up here for sale at prices around $5K.  It is really a great amp for the price, with smooth highs and the only drawback being that it runs hot.  If I hadn't come across a ridiculously good price for the Symphonic Line monos, the Plinius would likely still be here.  

To me if you like the sound of the Revel Salon2 in your system the obvious choice is their TOTL Gem2 bookshelf speakers.
-3 dB from 70 Hz to 45 kHz
±0.5 dB from 75 Hz to 18 kHz
±1.0 dB from 72 Hz to 20 kHz

https://www.revelspeakers.com/products/series/series-ultima2/Gem2-.html?cgid=series-ultima2&dwva...

Interesting why everyone is trying to get you to buy monitor speakers. You really seem to like the dynamic sound of the floor standers with the added deep bass, the combination that gives you real live music sound with excellent dynamic range and presentation.
in the place of the blade 2 I tried the ls50 and the ref 1. They all share the same midrange , tweeter driver unit. So theoretically with the subs  the sound should be similar to blade 2 with subs. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Big speakers with added subs integrated well sound so much better . Hence I am going for the bigger blades for the mid and highs . The kef guys feel that the bigger speaker would have more presence even when not doing bass duty. I sure hope so.
With regard to electrostats I have only tried Martin Logan’s and own a pair of cadence electrostats in my second system. They don’t match the blades when it comes to dynamic presentation and sound pressures which are important to me and the dipole nature of the speaker imo loose the focus that the blades provide . The blade 2 with the jl audio subs have a deep, wide, clean , stable and powerful soundstage . The electrostats sounded very pleasant but lacked the palpable presence of these big speakers mated with subs. To make the mid and high better , as you like your speakers and amplification I would recommend tweaks and essentials like sound treatment ( I love asc tube traps and they are very helpful if u call them ) , cables( in my system kiMber was too bright I use all cardas now and they made the sound much more to my taste), power conditioning, isolation feet etc Things to add everyday to make your system sound better a fraction at a time .

This is great! A lot of interesting and diverse opinions..as expected in this excellent forum.

For now, I’ll stay with Salon2. I really love them in my system and I think they are really not a lot of money for what they offer.

Again, thanks everyone for your thoughts and recommendations!.

I'M A "CONEHEAD", and all I can do is recommend what I had in my own LR- the Egglestonworks Andra-2. BUT The current version-3's use much faster midrange drivers than before. They are easy to drive (200W/ch SS) and easy to position. They sound like a real piano and that's good enough for me. They also extend down to 19Hz with ease with two X 12 inch drivers in each speaker. My room is 14X20 so you might want the next largest model. But they're quite similar to Sonus Faber speakers for naturalness if you like them also. Subs are OK, but I don't "get" the importance of bass down to 15Hz, unless you want the impact of Van Halen played at concert volume. I like pipe organ recordings and the Egg's outperformed Wilson's Maxx-2. Wiring up subs and crossovers (and even EQ) sounds like a lot of work. A full-range speaker that is designed to accurately (but gently) reproduce every kind of music there is would be where I could be satisfied. Von Schweikert speakers are also full-range champions, and reportedly have bass that descends down into the teens. Plus they have level controls on the rear panel already included that you can tailor the sound with. The newest series are quite expensive, though. As for monitors, 50Hz Is (as far as I'm concerned) already excellent bass, and other than sheer volume, provides 90% of the illusion of being full range. I've sat too close to too many rock bands in concert, one of which I just had to leave early rather than lose my hearing, and that WAS back in the "good old days". 

@ @french_fries - Thank you, its a good point! Though I’ve never heard the Andra 2 or 3, I assume with the 2x12" drivers on them, they produce as much bass pressure as needed on their own. So I believe (among other reasons), that these specific speakers are made to eliminate the need for external subs. I mean hey - not just one 12" woofer but 2 on each speaker! Not sure if any of the woofers are actively driven by internal amplification?

BTW..There are other speakers out there that don’t need external subs and they are huge, like the Focus Stalla, or the Evolution Acoustics MM2/MM3. I also mentioned earlier about the Paradigm Personas 9H - excellent sounding (I heard it) and much smaller then the others but these have internally active subwoofers...also very high efficiency.

I know, originally, this thread was not about bass, but bass is an integral part of the speaker. And at some point, it comes down to cost. None of the above excellent options are very cheap :) In the right conditions I agree that the Salon2 don’t need external subs either and some people on the thread have made a case for that. I calculated that that the equivalent area of all the Salon2 ’bass’ drivers is approximately 13.5" in diameter...that’s no joke either!. So, to digress, I did purchased the DSpeaker room analyzer which arrives today- thanks to @soix. We’ll see how it goes :).

Another vote for the quad 57, mine are from Kent McCollum in Kansas city. 

Contact George Kaye and inquire of him about a set of his modified esl 63's.
OR....if you've deep enough pockets try to find the Sequerra uber costly full range ribbon speaker system.
 Otherwise, Magnepans +  Sequerra T-1 ribbon tweeters with the appropriate attenuation to properly match the Maggies! 
 You'll never do better excepting a private orchestra and the concert hall to hear them in! ;-)
 

@jmarshak 

for mid range clarity please consider one of the full range speakers made by Cube Audio of Poland, such as the Cube Nenuphar or Nenuphar Mini. Crossoverless done amazingly well.

Please consider the GT Audio Works 3.1Rs and the Sanders Electrostat hybrid.

Totally agree with (soix2) in the post dated 12-13

Hello having worked in audio for over 40 years that question is much too basic ,in what system? what is your Amplification ?
front end,cables, and Budget  personally MBL Ultimates 101s
are the best speakers on the planet setup properly IMO with qualitymatching components .this is a AAA+ setup. Now back down to the Average say $40-50k system you’re seating how far from speakers,room size and Amplifier being used. I have been doing synergy as a whole for decades. To Answer with the best Hypothesis then all the other required information would be required rather then say 50 people giving you their opinion based on their system and stand point .
All my fellow Audiophile friends and associates have a Great Christmas🎄🎄 and New Year.

So you have acceptable bass extension with your current speakers but want more volume?  What about padding back the mids and highs in the crossover and just turn what you have up?  Save a lot of money.  Seem to me that you could spend a lot of money just to alter the balance, not the bass extension of your speakers.

I have main speakers that are 3 dB down at 20 Hz and for audio they need no augmentation. I use powered subs only for video (when you need to get down to a felt but not heard 16 Hz for those low organ notes or exploding deathstars).

And while I agree completely with the guys that suggested planars and electrostats for the best mids and highs, mating a subwoofer to those is one of the most difficult tasks in stereo.

Don´t know what DSpeaker you bought but would much recommend the Martin Logan (Paradigm) Unison (ARC Genesis) instead for your Salons. Easy to tilt your bass there if that´s what you like. I use it in the digital chain for all my systems, even the big ATC 150 ASL´s.

I owned cones until I heard Magnepan Tympani 1a's. Then it was Magnepan, then Quad. Now my system is all Quad ESL - want more bass? Add more ESL's.

Trust me - NOTHING beats 32 square feet of crossover-free ESL. Unless it's 48.

I'm now listening to a new pair of Maggie LRS speakers and a new Schiit Vidar amp and this is the best mids and highs I've ever had. I've got the bass routed to a sub with the crossover set to 80hz so the maggies are freed up from the heavy lifting and my understanding is they don't go much lower than 50 hz anyway. The LRS is not a speaker for loud rock music (which is ok for me) but sounds amazing with everything else. They are very intolerant of poorly recorder source material like compressed CD and low-res files like youtube music which sounds pretty crappy on the maggies. The Vidar amp runs warm but as long as I keep the volume somewhat limited it does fine. Still capable of room filling volume. I have ,a couple times, caused the amp to shut down from thermal overload, but only when turning the volume up really loud. But as soon as I back off on the volume a little and turn the Vidar back on it's immediately good to go. This system seems to sound better everyday but I'm not sure whether it's the system or my brain that's breaking in.My previous speakers were Polk Rtia5 floorstanders which were great for loud rock and pop and very forgiving of crummy source material everything sounded good on them although they didn't have the transparency and detail of the new maggies. The music seems to be floating in the air in the room with the LRS speakers, not coming from speakers at all. If regular speakers project sound like a flashlight the LRS is more like an open picture window. I also have a pair of ELAC B6 speakers in a closet upstairs which maybe I'll hook up this weekend they're also great for loud pop and rock. But the maggies look so cool you can kind of see through them and see the ribbon drivers. The highs are superior to any wooden box speaker I've ever heard. And female vocalists sound amazing.

Focal + Naim is one of the worst combination for highs, in my (subjective) opinion - cold and analytical. Very deep and fast with the bass, Naim can really control the speaker, but if you want neutral to warmer sound, I wouldn't go with Naim.

Hi @hombre - Thanks. Sound like you are really enjoying you system.
I like this explanation, paints a very vivid picture:

The LRS is more like an open picture window....

Also when you say:

This system seems to sound better everyday but I’m not sure whether it’s the system or my brain that’s breaking in

Funny but true.. sounds like everyday, you appreciate your sound reproduction more and more...I think that’s what this hobby is all about!

It also reminds me of the ’low fatigue’ factor. If you feel the way you describe when listening, your system must be ’low fatigue’ to you ... and that’s great. Because to me, it does not matter how good the sound is if you can’t listen for long stretch of time.
I can sit in front of my 6000Watts, actively listening, then wondering off, then actively listening again for hours, rarely leaving because I am tired, but mostly because of stuff to do. I think that makes all the difference between looking forward to listening to your system and selling it :)

Hi @wspohn - yes, so to me its not just dialing/ adjusting the volume. It is completely possible on the Salons2 if one needs to and I tried that.  Instead, I read and confirmed that it's when you relieve the main speaker from the super high current bass burden, that the rest of the frequency sound reproductions begin to shine even more. I experienced this immediately when integrating the Salons with the Subs via Active crossover. There were other sonic improvements that I mentioned before.
Salon2s have an amazing midst and highs capability, even better than their smaller sibling models.  And even though the Salon2s are also great for bass reproduction, the JLs are maid for bass, they are hard to compete with [for the money] when it comes to bass. The active JL cross over provides much better integration than the ’uncomplete’ crossovers and frequency attenuators on the subs . So the benefits of adding the JL subs are 1) the Subs are best at what they are built for, helping to pressurize the room with ease, etc. 2) the Salon2s now carry less burden to reproduce the mids with ease and sound much better at what they do. Clarity and dynamics improved also.  Again, very important to me was that imaging was not lost at all (perhaps because I use the same SR Active XLR interconnect cables everywhere).   3) The active crossover literally makes the two Sub/Speaker pair sound like a ’Singularity’.   And yes, the downsides are many 1) More equipment, more floor space (Although I co-share the JLs with my separate HT system- they are great for multi system usage) 2) more interconnects and power cord investments.. more expensive. 3) If you dont get the integration exactly right, the system will surely sound worse.
But it works good.

Finally, thanks all who suggested the different Electrostats - One day I hope to try them.

Happy Holidays to All!

hi jmarshak thanks for the nice response. I’ve been an audiophile for a long time and I’ve figured out that much of what audiophiles claim to hear from amps and CD players is actually a product of their own imagination it’s just that they’re unaware of this phenomenon.If they were blindfolded they wouldn’t be able to distinguish one amp from another. They listen to a four-figure CD player and they imagine that it must sound better than a three-figure CD player because it’s more expensive. I’ve read a lot of this kind of nonsense on the stereophile forums.I've argued with Robert Harley in the pages of TAS about the "sound quality" of digital interconnects. He wrote an absurd review of a four-figure interconnect in which he waxed poetic about the sound quality of it.I told him he was full of it. 

Yes, with time, I’ve come to appreciate a sort of priority order of what’s most important in the system to what’s least important. To me its:

#1) Room dimensions and treatment, ambiance, Scotch :), lighting, etc..
#2) The listener’s ’Mood’, who else is in the room and what else is going on there.
#3) The Speakers
#4) The Electronics
#5) Sonic cables (interconnects, speaker cables)
#6) Power conditioners(could be very important in poor/unstable power areas) and power cables, tweaks

People may also place different importance/priority on the above at different times in their lives (and depending on the deal at hand :) )

Best Regards!

I have the JL Audio CR1 with TAD CR1’s and 2 Jl Audio F-113’s and couldn’t be happier with the synergy, imaging and overall sound. I originally had Sonus Faber Amati’s and it was great. The TAD CR1’s took it to the next level and they are crossed over at 90 HZ. This was a best practice of Barry Ober aka The Sound Doctor. Pure magic. If you are in the Charlotte NC area, I would be happy to let you hear for yourself. The only caveat is that the CR1’s are inefficient, so I had to upgrade my Butler Monad tube hybrid monoblocks to Bryston 28B3 monoblocks. Problem solved!

I also have the JL-CR 1 which I use to bi-amp my Artemis Eos 2.1 speakers.  They have two separate boxes, each larger than average, and resemble Watt/Puppies.  I use an ML 534 amp on top, and a pair of Wyred 4 Sound mAmps on the bottom. I really love the sound, and so very much more since inserting the crossover.  I x-over at 150 Hz, 24 db/octave.  .  
Although I can’t give a reason, I too have been thinking of a change very much in line with the OP.  Listening to a few systems I came to one realization so far: the upper speaker needs physical volume and a 7” mid/woofer (if they are two way) in order to develop the fullness of sound I require.  Thin sounding midrange leaves me cold. That is one reason to go with floor-standers and subs.  I also want detail and imaging from narrow fronts and top quality tweeters.   
I have heard the Persona 9H and really like them.  I also like the smaller 7f’s and think that they would meld well with a pair of the JL Audio 113v2’s but haven’t heard the combo.  I think the Salons or the Studio’s or the F228be’s would also sound right to me hooked up with the 113v2’s.  I’ll be exploring these in 2020.

hombre - You mention that poorly recorded music sounds terrible on the Maggies.  I play acoustical 78 rpm (nominal speed) recordings, originals and CDs mostly and they are not high fidelity recordings.  Will they sound bad or fatiguing on Maggies?   I know that on my dynamic speakers, everything musically interesting sounds easy to listen to for hours despite their fidelity (of course great recordings sound great and I have difficulty pulling myself out of my listening room at night to go to bed).  

I second Borreson, I heard them at RMAF this year in a very large room and they were superb. Raidho is also great. That being said, I ended up with Voxativ and am very happy. Very engaging to my ears

hi fleschler, I'm guessing you'll have the same experience I'm having. My Polk floorstanders sounded really good to me, powerful with lots of dynamic punch and everything sounded good even poor source material. The maggie LRS is completely different. It's all about sound quality. So when you listen to high quality source material they sound beautiful and very different from what you're used to.I'm still glad I got the maggies I just think I need more time to get used to them. But if you're like me you're going to need a good powered sub. It makes a world of difference with the maggies. They sound much more dynamic. Without the sub they sound anemic. But not a ported sub, they sound crappy. Get a good sealed sub. Mine is a B&W powered sub with 400 watts built in. It really kicks. But in order to  make it mesh with the maggies I keep it turned down somewhat, otherwise it overpowers the maggies and messes up the sound.

@acolcer
That’s quite a set up you got! Thanks for your kind offer to hear it. I just may take you up on it :)
Best Regards.

@aigenga when you say:

Although I can’t give a reason, I too have been thinking of a change very much in line with the OP.

To me it’s about a sense of efficiency. I am interested to see if I can be more efficient with funds, floor space, power handling, quality, etc. Or can I perhaps get an even better sound for the money. My priority, like for many on this site is: First do no harm to the sound, and then see if I can improve it - knowing that we are well into the diminishing returns range financially with our gear. So it’s hard to be efficient and gain sonic benefits.

You have quite a project planned for next year. Good luck and enjoy :) And it would be interesting to hear about your findings!

If the object is to save money by selling the Salon 2s and buying something smaller to mate with your JLA subs and Xover, I think you'll find the exercise futile.  By the time you sell the Revels and buy a smaller monitor style speaker of equal or greater quality, you will not have saved a penny.  In any case, if your Revels don't sound smooth and extended in the mid and highs, something is wrong with them or elsewhere.  They are among the most smoothly extended, neutral, balanced and overall non-fatiguing full range speakers ever made.  

It happens that I have the same rig you do, (2) JLA F113/2, JLA CRI, Salon 2's but mine with  MC452 power.   

I cross over at 80Hz , 24dB/octave and have found much of what you describe after my own experimenting.  My system has a fairly big suck-out between 50-60Hz which I believe contributes to a lack of slam but it has no other significant problems and has useful output at 20Hz. 

I can't imagine selling the Revels for something lesser while I still have this room.  

If you have not yet treated your room's acoustics you might want to start there first. It's the best single thing you can do to get a grip and control over your sound.  

Thanks. Again, the system sounds great for -bass, mids and highs!
I just wanted to see if possible to gain efficiency.

Totally agree that any gained efficiency may not even be worth it, after taking into account transaction costs and headach :)

Interesting, did you say that you feel lack of slam?  do you mean because of the room?

Great thread because it points out how speaker design and crossover components influence the SQ - highs mids and lows.  I'm a fan of ribbon tweeters and have owned GoldenearTriton1, Burmester B25 and last month demo'd the new Raidho TD2.2 in my home. As mentioned, room size is important for choosing the appropriate model, and Raidhos need to be positioned carefully.  I was fortunate enough to have Benno from Denmark in my home to do it right. I was totally blown away.  They are beautiful and sound amazing in every respect.  

Also the quality of the driver also matters.  I have used Seas entry level paper cones and also some high end ScanSpeak, and the Seas sounds somewhat hollow in comparison.  Of course the Seas Excel is different altogether compared to their entry level stuffs.

I have a pair of Martin Logan Frescos. They have folded ribbon midrange and tweeters. I really like the sound in the human vocal range. Crossovers are at 500 and 3200. Aluminum cone 4" from around 80 to 500.

Magnepan's if you have the space and the power.  I use an REL sub to help with the low end.