I don't hear what you hear in his performance on that song teo, but I agree that he had his great moments.
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Here’s Keith doing his adventurous thing with the drums He keeps switching from staying with the lyrical content and motion/forces/timing, and then playing with the beat, staying on it, in front, behind, etc. Like a man trying to play the ENTIRE song all by himself, without dropping any of it, without losing any of it’s macro or micro considerations.. Along with point and counterpoint, dance, flow, all of it. It’s an amazing performance, if you really listen. One could even propose that the entire intent of the song comes out in the drums and the rest is just wafts of flavoring and colors, mood lighting, etc. That is Keith’s drumming......(at least here, in this tune) |
There were no great rock drummers before Ringo Starr, Charlie Watts, and Keith Moon. Everyone, talented though they may be, who came after built on what they created. "If I have seen further than others it is because I stood on the shoulders of Giants." And they learned their craft listening to Art Blakey, Gene Krupa, and Buddy Rich, but that trio weren't rock drummers. |
Haha best drummer thread...classic! They all start with Neil Peart or John Bonham with a non-rock tip of the hat to Buddy Ruch. There’s also Keith Moon up there as well. Better to ask professional drummers who they admire most and I guarantee Neil Peart won’t hit the top ten. I have a ’crieria’ which I ’judge’ drummers but I use it to quantify every type of artist: it’s a countdown from ’facility/skill’ to creativity to something a bit rarer...something the best artist strive to have but is something that cannot be taught. It is fearlessness. If it was fearlessness alone, Elvin Jones, Steve Gadd or Keith Moon would be at the top of the list. If it was creativity alone, Max Roach, Steve Gadd, Steve Smith, Vinnie Colaiutta are up there. I’m sure I’m missing a few. If it was musicality alone, Jeff Porcaro, Hal Blaine, John Bonham My criteria: 5. Facility 4.Influential contribution 3.Musicality 2.Creativity 1.Fearlessness
This is why Neil Peart would never crack the top 20 in my list and why I rate John Bonham in the top 5.
I’m a huge Steve Smith fan. His solo on Journey Captured Live is the best recorded rock solo in my book. But he is not fearless like Max Roach or Elvin Jones or Keith Moon. I think Neil Peart is a great drummer and I’m a huge Rush fan. I think the best living drummers are still Steve Gadd and Vinnie Colaiutta.
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Tre Cool of Green Day - I'm not a fan of the band, but he is a great drummer. Fast and clean with great taste and instincts to drive the music forward and always do just the right thing at just the right time while also surprising the listener sometimes. Gilson Lavis, formerly the drummer for Squeeze for many years. Love the band, and he was the perfect drummer for them. Again, original, never intrusive but full of quirky little ideas that were the perfect accompaniment to their brilliant songs. |
@mahgister I hear the big thing now is adult adoption. I can teach you trumpet if the arthritis will not let you work the frets. My neighbor hates when I get my saxophone out not that I am bad I am loud. Tenor rules the alto |
@mahgister my wife and I raising biracial children have learned let them be who they are. Do what calls them and they have all done well. Are children are all grown but know we foster children hoping to leave the same impression two of them are now candidates for Music and Academic Scholarships. Teach your children well................ |
I will send you my paper for the next life among musicians... Thanks 😁😊 To understand the universe the easiest way is music... Alain Connes and this Dr. Anirban Bandyopadhyay just say that consciousness is related to music and even is music... Then.... i believe them... Cannot wait to be adopted... my deepest respect to you and to your family...
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@mahgister we are all musicians and engineers in my home. Not the Partridge Family we are more dysfunctional like Sly and the Family Stone. |
For sure you are right... A drummer is a limited percussionist in a way...For me... Drummer with standard set of drums are recent phenomenon in a limited number of musical style...Jazz and rock/pop... Percusionnist are more musicians on their own free way, soloist in many countries and cultures from millennias or player in a communicating at distance talking community... Correct me if wrong... I prefer percussionists...i associated percussionist with melodic rythm and /or rythmic melody...Drummer play more rythmic explosions with accompanying beat than melody of their own ... I am not a musician ... 😁😊 At all.... But i love music and will be one next life... If i was a baby i will ask your family to adopt me... 😁
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Bobby Whitlock (organist/singer/songwriter in Derek & The Dominos, organist/singer on George Harrison’s All Thinks Must Pass album, member of Delany & Bonnie and Friends) states unequivocally that the best Rock ’n’ Roll drummer of all-time is Jim Gordon. When I recorded with Emitt Rhodes he told me the best musician that played on any of his albums was Jim. I’ve never heard better, and I’ve seen Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker, Bobby Columby (Buddy Rich thought highly of his playing in BS&T), Jim Keltner (John Lennon’s first choice, as well as Ry Cooder’s. By the way, in a Modern Drummer magazine interview Jim expressed his admiration for the playing of Roger Hawkins, saying he wished he---Jim---played more like Roger. Roger is also a very favorite of mine, along with of course Levon Helm), Keith Moon (just so you’ll know: Keith played all single-stokes---like Ringo, he didn’t know the 26 rudiments), Charlie Watts, Ringo, Terry Williams (Rockpile, Man, Dire Straits), Marky Ramone (laugh if you want, but in a Modern Drummer interview Tony Williams expressed his admiration for Mark’s drumming), and hundreds of others. For those who love John Bonham: Listen to Earl Palmer’s intro to Little Richard’s song "Keep A Knockin". Sound familiar? Pull out your copy of whichever Led Zeppelin album contains their song "Rock ’n’ Roll". They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. ;-) As for me, Steve Gadd imo strikes the perfect balance between the display of technique and it’s use in service to the music. Some will understand that statement, others won’t. No offence intended ;-) . In the genre I am these days most interested (Americana), nobody is better than Harry Stinson (Marty Stuart’s Fabulous Superlatives). Subtle, tasteful, musical. And he sings great harmony. |
Steve "Bam Bam "Becker, from South Side Johnny was an excellent drummer. A prolific jazz drummer believe it or not. When he joined SSJ of course he had to play their stuff. He was a personal friend and turned me on to alot of great jazz albums when we were young. Great guy just to hang out with, RIP Steve. |
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dhpeck, shadorne, and roxy54, agree with all ya’ll. czarivey, if by best you mean technically, you have a point. It takes a lot more technique to play Jazz than most Rock, so Jazz players coming to Rock have a distinct advantage. Frank Zappa and Steely Dan are two musics that benefitted from having Jazz players as drummers. But I’ve heard Jazz players who don’t quite understand what makes Rock work, and play inappropriately for the music. It’s not just what you play, but what you don’t as well, as the old saying goes. It’s also horses for courses; as Keith Moon responded when asked if he could play in The Buddy Rich Big Band (a question intended to humiliate, or at least put in his place, him): "No, and Buddy Rich couldn’t play in The Who." One reason I don’t care for a lot of Rock drumming is that I don’t like Rock music, for the most part. But I love Rock ’n’ Roll! Just last week I saw a clip of Tom Petty talking about getting into music at ten years of age, listening to Rock ’n’ Roll. He then made a point of saying "Not Rock. Rock doesn’t swing." Exactly! A lot of Rock drummers, including Bonham, don’t either. The creator of Rock 'n' Roll drumming, in the opinion of a lot of Rock ’n’ Roll musical historians, was Earl Palmer, who swung like mad. He was a New Orleans Jazz drummer, but really knew how to play what was best for the music. Insanely great drummer! |
@bdp24 Agreed. Bonham style is definitely "lumbering" - it feels as if the wheels are always about to come off! He seems to lurch and time seems suspended and then he has the ability to catch up on the fill or the One beat. I find such a deep pocket and loose feel to be fantastic for the Blues style music that Led Zeppelin mostly played. |
lp, you are absolutely right. Phil Collins in early GENESIS... just sublime. Watch the Belgian TV program from March 1972 and that basic drum kit... all those dozens cans and symbals with Peart and Portnoy etc. are unnecessary really and just for showing off. His drumming is most fluid and musical not to mention creative second to none. Actually he was the only pro in the band and is the foundation for the classic GENESIS sound. Later in 70´s he learned to play jazz w/ Brand X. Jon Hiseman, Bill Bruford and Carl Palmer come very close but are more jazz than rock really. Mitch Mitchell is too and his work w/ Hendrix is quite magical. Vesa Aaltonen in Tasavallan Presidentti is superb as well, and so is Pierluigi Calderoni in Banco. And Giancarlo Golzi in Museo Rosenbach RIP Corky Laing, Lee Kerslake, Bill Ward and Iain Clark (Cressida, Uriah Heep) and Ted McKenna (Alex Harvey, MSG). Phil Ehart and Moon the Loon of course ; ^) |
Speaking of Keith Moon, in the late 60’s and early 70’s Jazz was starting to infiltrate Rock, with drummers having "rudimentary" training making their appearance. Jazz musicians had traditionally looked down their noses at Rock players, as those players (such as Ringo Starr) often had no formal training. But with the appearance of Mitch Mitchell (Hendrix, of course), Bobby Colomby (B,S,&T), and Carmine Appice (Vanilla Fudge), that was changing. Still, Rock drummers were not considered the equal of Jazz players. Keith Moon was asked in an interview, in an attempt to humiliate him (or at least put him in his place), if he could play in The Buddy Rich Big Band. Most drummers would admit that, no, they certainly couldn’t. But Keith, bless his heart, instead said "No, and Buddy Rich couldn’t play in The Who". Exactly! Would a Jazz drummer have made The Beatles music any better? Or could it be that a Jazz player would have actually make it not as good? Speaking of Jazz, didya hear what Buddy Holly said about it? "Jazz is strictly for the stay at homes". ;-) |
IMHO the best I ever saw was Phil Collins when Peter Gabriel was also in Genesis. And someone who has been mentioned many times Keith Moon is my other favorite. However as great as Keith was nothing gives me the audio musical experience like Collins from that era. He has a unique style that I know of no one that compares. LP |
