Weighing in here based on my own experience: Of the speakers under discussion, I’ve heard/owned a pair of Proac Response 1SCs which were mentioned some posts ago (these spent about 10 years in my system before a change of amplification dictated something larger). I replaced them with Proac Response D2s, which seemed a bit bright and I didn’t like the way their treble and mids balanced. I’ve auditioned Silverline Minuet Grands, as well as several models of Fritz Speakers. Fortunately, both of these companies are based very close to where I live so they were willing to bring the speakers to my house to let me audition them in my own system. My impressions of the Fritz and Silverline speakers were generally favorable, but they didn’t quite fit my own taste. The Proacs came closer, in the sense that they offered a very detailed and sharply defined sound as well as excellent stereo imaging. Proac has what I consider a proprietary "house" sound which I can’t describe in words but know it when I hear it. It’s a sound that appeals to me, but maybe not everybody. Fritz (who is a very nice guy, BTW, and extremely knowledgeable about his craft) emphasizes balance and smoothness, but for me, at the expense of "edge," that is, they tend to smooth out the sharply defined outlines of the instruments. They’re excellent speakers in all respects, just not exactly to my taste. The Silverlines seemed to be all about "oomph," so if you like room-filling timpani or bass drums or, say, the cannons in Tchaikovsky’s "1812 Overture," these are for you. What I haven’t seen mentioned here are the speakers I finally settled on, which I think are in your price range: Ryan R610s. These are available from some retailers, so their company is not exactly a "cottage industry." I found mine here on A’gon slightly used, but that just means I didn’t have to spend however-many-100s of hours breaking them in. These are magnificently balanced and smooth like the Fritz’s, have all the bass you’d probably ever need in a small(ish) room, image extremely well, and illuminate the music without coloring it. The edges aren’t quite as sharp as the Proacs, but the overall sound is far more pleasing to my ear. If you can audition these, I highly recommend doing so. http://ryanspeakers.com/Products/Products/R610.htmlBest of luck in your search--there are so many good options out there! |
How do you guys feel about Coherent speakers? |
@cooper52- I have owned many pairs of proacs including the 1sc’s and I have to say your description of the 610’s is spot on. They are really great speakers. I have since gone back to Proacs (studio 3’s) but have been thinking about getting a pair of the s610’s. Ryans are such an easy and fun speaker to listen to.
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I’d suggest LSA statement 1’s or the Phil bmr’s which I currently own. Both are stellar, the lsa has a more forward midrange which may seem more detailed. They |
@cooper52
Which Fritz and Silverline did you hear? |
How big of a factor should warranty be in making a decision? I see a range of warranties from 10 years to no warranty.
Do speakers fail? Does anyone have any feedback on this? Should warranty be a factor at all in purchasing a speaker? |
A good warranty should be a factor in any purchase you make, including speakers. That said, speakers are generally very reliable pieces of equipment. For me personally, as I tend to buy used, I would not consider the lack of a warranty to be a deal breaker. This of course is dependent on age, condition, type of equipment, and from where and whom you are purchasing.....I would tend to be less concerned about a lack of warranty if looking to purchase speakers as opposed to other components.
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Stuff_Jones: The one Silverline speaker I heard (last year) was the Minuet Grand, as that's the one I specifically requested. Fritz was kind enough to bring over several models of his speakers: Rev 5, Rev 7, Carbon 7 (not the SE, if I remember correctly), Carerra 7(extremely nice speakers, those), and a pair of one-off floorstanders (an experiment, according to Fritz) with a ribbon tweeters that I got to audition in my system for a week. This was a couple of years ago, so I only have the most general recollection of what I heard.
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A good warranty should be a factor in any purchase you make, including speakers. That said, speakers are generally very reliable pieces of equipment. For me personally, as I tend to buy used, I would not consider the lack of a warranty to be a deal breaker. This of course is dependent on age, condition, type of equipment, and from where and whom you are purchasing.....I would tend to be less concerned about a lack of warranty if looking to purchase speakers as opposed to other components.
There's a pair of used Totem Hawks near me which are tempting. However the comments of this 2011 review of the Hawks show several users with damaged drivers needing replacement. I want to say its because the long throw Revelator but then one person blew out their tweeters. Is this a model specific thing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVS0GCwNxg |
I had Hawks for a few years and loved them. If you're going to have bookshelf speakers on stands then Hawks are a great alternative. They are small, but have a huge soundstage and image fantastically. They also play down into the mid 30's and have great detail. Everyone who heard them thought I had a subwoofer, but I don't (I know - audiophile cliche, but true with the Hawks). Not sure how anyone would blow out the driver unless they really cranked the volume and fed it too much power, but almost any speaker can have that happen. My only issue with the Hawks is that the tweeter is a metal dome which I don't love. With certain music and at moderately high volumes the highs would sometimes sound a bit edgy or too sharp. The RAAL tweeter in my Song3's has more detail, more air, more texture, and none of the edginess. That's why I also recommend the BMR's which use the same RAAL as the Song3's. Again, with most music the tweeter, which I believe is also ScanSpeak, was fine, but sometimes I would have to touch the volume down. The Hawks are great though, and if you get them used at a good price you can probably sell them down the road for about what you paid for them. |
How about the Usher BE- 718 used? Great speakers for the money. |
Anyone have any experience with the PraAc Reference SM100s? They’re a bit over budget but used they could be a fit. Small and front ported so should be flexible with placement. Bass reported to the mid 30s but should be flat-ish given their reference use. Apparently very easy to listen to as reference monitors which bodes well for their hifi application. |
I finally listened to some speakers, none of which were bookshelf speakers.
I heard the Tekton Hawks (used) and the Monitor Silver 200 and 300s with some new Adcom class G integrated and the Parasound Halo. The Adcom sounded thin with the Hawks and so I ended up doing most of my listening with the Halo.
The Hawks sounded dynamic with great transients and lots of details. The bass went low and was tight. They imaged really well. My issue was with the tweater. On some tracks it drew attention to itself with its sharpness. I think it would benefit from tubes, but they’re said to be power hungry so maybe a hybrid? Anyway, I could imagine having a love/hate relationship unless you got the amplification exactly right. That revelator woofer though was really impressive.
I’d be interested in learning which other reasonably priced speakers use Revelator woofers. I know the Fritz Carerra BE do. Any others around 2k?
Next I heard the Monitor Audio Silver 300s. They brought welcome warmth and body, but I found them a little overly warm/murky and maybe a little slow? A very pleasant listen though.
I actually liked the Silver 200s more, outside the fact that they didn’t go as low. They took that nice easy going warmth of the 300s but seemed a little bit clearer and quicker to me. Not sure the break in status of either MA and the Hawks were used so fully broken in. They were the speaker of the three I could see living with the easiest even if they weren’t the most impressive.
I do like the idea of a small profile floor stander now. I wonder though if the slim towers lose a little bit in dynamics compared event to a stand mounted speaker because of their smaller drivers.
Incidentally I heard some 100k plus system and it was super impressive like great special effects in a movie. It wasn’t really convincing musically. Great dynamics, range and clarity, but something was off tonally and it just sounded too hyped up. It was like some photoshop special effect that makes you think wow but that doesn’t look real. |
I know what you mean. My Spica TC-50 was an amazing loudspeaker from a small company and it's still one of my favorites from over the years. Too bad Mom came over one year to visit and destroyed them by fiddling around with my equipment trying to put on Christmas music at full blast one holiday years ago : ( |
I would listen to Elac as well. They have some nice bookshelf speakers that are inexpensive. And I would consider Genelec if you've got the money. |
Both the Spica TC-50 and Celestion SL700 are small vintage standmounts that you should consider. |
@stuff_jones
You heard what I did with the Hawks. The tweeter is a touch bright. However, what I did like is that at low and moderate volume you still get a lot of detail. Tubes helped a bit, but I'd still have to turn the volume down a bit on certain material. Overall, great speakers though and a ton of great sound for their footprint and price (when used). |
stuff_jones A few thoughts....about everything that has been said so far 1. you should consider all of the speakers that have been suggested as "candidates" for you to audition at home...just because it sounds good in someone else's home with their equipment does not assure you that you will love it in your home. 2. If you have to spend a few shipping dollars to audition at home, in the end it will be worth it 3. Most likely, you will get the upgrade bug down the road...so don't buy a speaker that will be hard to resell unless you try something and it is just so good you have to have it and don't care about resale. 4. If you know what you want, there is nothing wrong with the resale market...buying preowned will save you 30% or so after shipment 5. The internet direct situation is much like craft beers....20 years ago, the craft beer guys forced the big brands to offer better tasting products. The ID guys like Fritz, Zu, Tekton, Philharmonic, Salk...to name a few have done the same to the big guys like KEF, Quad, etc. Just because speakers measure well doesn't mean they will sound great in your room...and just because the ID guys don't have the best measuring equipment doesn't mean that they can't make great sounding speakers. So far, the ear is the best tool....and each speaker company voices their speaker to their way of hearing/thinking what music sounds like. 6. If you have a big room...and bass matters, don't dismiss the idea that you could get better overall sound spending $1500 on speakers and $500 on a decent sub from one of the ID companies. Let us know what all you try and what you ended up with. |
Anti-climactic conclusion (for now). I’ve spent way too much time researching gear. I was already struggling with setting a budget and feeling like if I just upped my budget a little I’d get to a higher level of sound quality that I could be content with. But then I would back down feeling guilty that I would be spending too much. I could imagine this iterating the rest of my life until eventually I had tens of thousands of dollars in my gear through a never ending cycle of this is amazing! elation/there’s x imperfection in my system, how can I upgrade? discontent. I don’t want to go down that wormhole. So I’ve ordered the new Vanatoo Transparent One Encores. I’ll probably add the RSL Speedwoofer 10s to fill out the sound. I’ve got the Transparent Zeros on my desk and they sound really good and balanced, especially for the money. So good that I also bought a pair for my mom. Here’s a review: http://noaudiophile.com/Vanatoo_Transparent_Zero/. So I thought I’d get the big brother to them and enjoy the music without thinking too much about gear and my wallet. Sorry to all those spending time advising me. Hopefully someone else will benefit. |
Hello folks,
I was an EE in my previous life. Built amps and my own speakers a few times. Less hassle to purchase one as I got older.
Needed small form factor speakers in our kitchen / eating / family area and I got Ascent Acoustics Sierra-2 (RAAL). Just simply great. Does not go low enough and I don’t want to use a sub. The Ascends are wonderful just don’t go low enough - that is all.
PS - I simply want to hear what is recorded, good or bad. Mostly good.
Met with Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy and listened too the BMR and also the Philharmonic-3 at Dennis’s home. Wow !! to both is all I can say.
I will be receiving my BMRs from Dennis Murphy with custom Salk cabinets soon. They go quite low. My cousin who came with me, ordered a pair of the Philharmonic-3s (replacing Legacy Audio Whispers).
Digital source is an Oppo 203 with a routine Sony amp. Analog source is a Technics SL1210 (vintage) with Ortofon Red and a Musical Fidelity A308 as a phono preamp.
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Yes Rogers LS3/5a's. Wow! Auditioned them in 1976. I know, ancient times.....Rich, full, luscious and detailed sound. Downright seductive...........Would have purchased but wanted floor standing type. Should have bought a pair. Repro's are made imported from England. Seem to one true to the original in terms of parts, specs. |
How many votes for the Kef ls-50? I think the r300 is a bookshelf with an additional woofer. resale is going to bit regardless what you buy IF you buy new, under $500 I would buy something from Elac, The kef is probably still best in class but I think many actually expect it to be more than what it is because of all the hype. The market is pretty bad and dealers are dealing so make a friend and start bringing stuff home. |
I have ls50s among others. They are top notch as advertised within their limits . Hard to beat with a sub or two and a capable setup to drive them. Size and bass extension is where they are limited. |
I ended up getting the Vanatoo One Encores at the presale price. They are outstanding, and not just for the money. You can find impressions of them on @taww's blog. I'm relieved to not have to agonize about a trillion different possible upgrade paths and just enjoy the music.
I've had the Encore Zeros on my desk and they are also excellent, but these are a different level.
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