Back to the DAC

Always best to consider the input  / outputs the designer (s)  considers optimal…. An interesting thread… lots of good advice… however, because it’s a DAC… pay careful attention to the A part… which on a new unit will likely require more than 15 days to form the caps…. There are a lot of component de jour / gear changers…. Typically chasing leading edge emphasis = detail…. Just my $.02

I'm suprised to see you said the PBD Merlot didn't work with your PLink based streamer. I used it with the PBD outboard streamer and later with another streamer and the PBD USB-X4 and Plink input with no issues. Best...

I never bought the Merlot, but my research indicated that there was a version change and the Stream-IF that I own would not work via Plink on the Merlot. I use the Stream-IF via SPDIF on my Benchmark DAC3B. It is a great streamer, even on SPDIF.

If I am wrong not a biggie since my eventual goal is to go with the MPD-6 or MPD-8. 

It looks like the Yggi+ OG I ordered yesterday may arrive tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how it fairs with the LIM.

@mitch2 OK! lol

There are 5 of them on USAM right now for under $4K each.

@tvad upgrade to 21 or 1S2 for $2500 if it has MDX? 

You won’t regret it. Leaves some funds for some nice USB and power cables. 

@audphile1 @tvad 👍 

Agreed with @tvad 100%
mentioned earlier in my responses as well…competition is fierce on USAM with M3 now. Score one under $3500 all in. You can spend the rest of your dough later if M3 tires you out. Get one with remote if you can. Excellent DAC and a great match with N200. 

@audphile1 Retail on a new M1 SE is $10K, so $7,500 for a month old, dealer demo is decent, but you're right there is a 4 year old M1 SE here on AG for $5K...UGH!

@navyachts Best of luck with the search! There are more analytical DAC's perhaps, but for realism, correct tonality, and music that SOUNDS like music and not a digital reproduction, the PBD DAC's are hard to beat. Keep your eyes open for a used Playback Design Edelwiess MPD-6 perhaps. Compared to the Merlot, you will find similar sonic signature and musicality, but improved dynamics and more resolution. All the best. 

@yyzsantabarbara I'm suprised to see you said the PBD Merlot didn't work with your PLink based streamer. I used it with the PBD outboard streamer and later with another streamer and the PBD USB-X4 and Plink input with no issues. Best...

That’s high for M1SE @navyachts   wait for a used one. Since you mentioned II it kind of threw me off into thinking it was M1S2. 

@tvad sorry, kinda early, yes, it's a M1 SE

Hey @tvad where did all your posts go? I wanted to go back on them for reference!

@navyachts if you can swing the Bricasti, do it. It will be a good synergy and a solid DAC. What is LAIV? Looks like the next best shiny thing on YouTube…I don’t believe the hype sorry

That Laiv Harmony looks interesting, but I hate to be the "first on the block" in case of some problems.

@mclinnguy great advice, thank you. So, you are happy with you your Weiss 501 in your system? I would imagine the Magnepans have a similar flair to the Martin Logans? Not sure. 

@audphile1 OK, I have passed on the Merlot. Now I have found a one month old Briscati M1 SE II demo unit for $7500. Full lifetime warranty. A tad more than I want to spend, but...

Or, I could wait a bit for the $2,700 Harmony Laiv DAC which seem to have some rave reviews, without breaking the bank. 

Or @yyzsantabarbara’s suggestion of the Schitt LIM which works well for him. Which you can try out for 15 days.

Whadd ya think?

…the N200 is optimized for USB so select a DAC with solid USB implementation.

That is an excellent point that needs to be emphasized. 

Into my DAC my streamer/player's AES output absolutely trumps the USB output. As @audphile1 states the N200 is the complete opposite. 

For the 20 times the number of people viewing this thread than there are the number of posters, and the same goes for all the many other "I need a new DAC" threads, just something to take into account for those attempting to do some online shopping, and narrow down some new DAC purchase, as I just went through the same exercise a few months ago. I am off the merry-go-round (for now)

This whole "digital front end" part with its permutations can be complicated.

Context is everything-In a demo, which unit was doing the clocking?  It is quite possible those who claim "DAC A was better than DAC B" we may not know exactly how it was setup or synergized with the rest of the system: Was it the streamer/player combo you heard, or was it just ethernet into the DAC, and which digital cabling etc. It matters. 

As always: in home demo's are best with YOUR streamer/player, optimally set-up based on manufacturer's recommendations or users reports. And many are now finding their streamer/players are making a larger impact on the sound quality than the DAC anyway. 

@audphile1 all excellent points. I will further my research. As always, I really appreciate your help!

You as well @yyzsantabarbara 

Oh and one other thing…the N200 is optimized for USB so select a DAC with solid USB implementation. Berkley Alpha for example doesn’t even feature USB input. So just be aware and do your research. 

@navyachts considering you are running Aurender N200, I would stick with reputable DACs in the same retail price range or more. You’re looking at $6,0000 + DACs. This criteria eliminates a lot of sideways moves and somewhat eliminates most hyped DACs. Don’t waste your time and money.

If your system is a bit bright, like my Magnepan LRS+. Then the LIM sounds really good on it. However, there are some who feel it is not very good. All I know is that it works really well with my brighter LRS+ but not perfectly with my warmer Yamaha NS5000. Now those comments are really about my perception.

Since it worked so well with my LRS+ I wanted the same pedigree DAC with a bit less of that "musicality" for my NS5000. I hope I get that with the OG version that I should get delivery this week. This is also a discontinued DAC but I learned why it was discontinued from someone at Schitt. So that did not stop me from buying the last one.

The PBD Merlot is also a discontinued DAC and was one I was looking to get for a short time if it worked with my PBD streamer’s Plink, it did not.

@audphile1 ok, super thank you!

Check hifishark sold items. I’m seeing most under $4000. It’s up to you. Not familiar with how easy it is to sell this DAC. You also have a few Bricasti M3 out there meaning you can potentially score a good deal. Yes the M3 is the starting point of their lineup but is one heck of a DAC.
I would also add Chord to your list. If you’re looking to stay within $4,000-$6,000 range you can get Hugo TT2 with MScaler or even DAVE if you’re lucky. 

@yyzsantabarbara thanks, I was going to reply to you tomorrow. Maybe I should  give the LIM DAC a shot first? It's just these Merlots don't come up often and it's an inexpensive way to get a taste of the PBD genre. 

@audphile1 thanks as well

If the price is right and it’s something that sells fast, I’d try it. But only under these circumstances. 

You should be able to sell the Merot for the $4k. It has high resale value.

@audphile1 Point well taken!  I was going to pull the trigger on a 4-year-old, $4K, PBD Merlot DAC (unheard & no returns) tomorrow. Maybe I should re-think this?

@navyachts one other thing I wanted to mention - for your next DAC don’t be afraid to push towards more resolution. With ML speakers choosing DAC that is on a warmer/too laid back side of neutral would be a less than ideal match. I’ve not heard Playback Designs but from what I read they are mellow and relaxed. Careful not to tip the balance too much. 

I decided to hold off on my desire to buy a Playback Designs MPD-8 for a while. I may get a used one in a few years once people move on to the next best thing. I already have a PBD Plink based streamer in the house for day I get a MPD-8 DAC.

To hold me for the next few years I was looking to get another Schitt Yggi+ DAC. I have the "musical" Less Is More (LIM) and wanted my new DAC to be more detailed. My speaker is a bit warmer than the speaker in my LIM system.

It was suggested to me to go for the last remaining Schitt Yggi+ OG. So I got that yesterday DAC instead of the Yggi+ More Is Better (MIB) that I was initially inquiring about.

From your description of the sound you want and also because of your Gustard R2R DAC you own, I would think the LIM is what you would like of the 3 Yggi+’s that I considered.

You can do a home demo of the LIM and MIB for 15-days. If it works out, you save a lot of money. The OG I got yesterday was the last one they had to sell. The LIM can be changed to the MIB, and maybe MIB to LIM for $850. I now have 2 Yggi+’s for the next few years.

Another warm-ish DAC for under $3k is the Musetec 005. Though I like the LIM more.

BTW - my last DAC before the LIM cost $15K. I think the LIM is better, even though I normally do not go for the "musical" thing for DACs.

I know EJ but I wouldn't consider us pals and like I said I tried the 10th anniversary DAC from all different reviews that I read but the one that really caught my eye was the reviewer putting it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge and after I put it in my system and heard it that was it for me this DAC will beat a lot of more expensive DACS, one of the other reviewers put it up against his own $9,000 COS1 that is worth $9,000 and it beat it and then he tried it against CHORD, PS audio direct stream and a few other much more expensive DACs and the 10th anniversary DAC beat them all, and since it comes with a 30-day trial period there's no risk in trying it.

@ddafoe LOL!

@navyachts Yeah, it's the new kid on the block but I thought that from the couple sources linked being rather reputable makes it worth considering. Enjoy the Playback Designs Merlot!

All the best,
Nonoise

@zuesman Well, it’s not the anniversary model, but I did have had a W4S 2v2 SE in the past and found it to quite good, thanks. Are you a pal of EJ's?

@nonoise lot of hype over this Harmony DAC, same as when the Gustard R26 came out. I think I’ll let the hype settle. In the meantime, I have my eyes focused on a used Playback Designs Merlot Dac. Thanks,

Try the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC, one of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with the $5,000 Japanese cartridge and he said that the 10th anniversary DAC sounded just as analog, on that review I bought it and I totally agree it is so three-dimensional warm and analog sounding It's not even funny I wholeheartedly recommend it and it comes with a 30-day trial if you don't like it you can send it back and get all your money back after you hear it I don't think you'll be sending it back, It's not cheap though it's $4,500 US.

Not to belabor the point but here's another rave review on the LAiV DAC,

There's also a more thorough write up by this reviewer in his written link below the video.

All the best,
Nonoise

I had a Benchmark DAC3 and found it a little sterile and bright in the lower treble. I did an audition of an Esoteric DAC and the MSB Discrete DAC. The MSB was clearly a more involving DAC. Smooth non fatiguing. So I bought it and it’s great. 

@vinylshadow just an FYI, I am NOT spending $24K on a DAC, nor considering Denafrips. Hopefully I can get one of the better, aforementioned DACs here for under $10,000. I’m in no rush, so will wait patiently for something to come up. The likes being (in order of preference): MSB Discrete DAC, Playback Designs of some sort, Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Series 3 or possibly a Bricasti M1 (series II would be nice!)

I’m in no rush, so will wait patiently for something to come up :-)

Thank you all for your comments and recommendations. I have a short list now and will continue to search for something in this list within my budget.

dmiller01 recommended the now discontinued Playback Designs Merlot DAC. Does anyone else have an opinion on this one?

I've heard that the Denafrip's Terminator is made in China.

Andreas at Playback Designs invented the D/A converter. If I'm spending $24k on a DAC, it's going to be the MPD-8. If too much, then the MPD-6. 

Best build of any DAC out there. 

@audphile1 Maybe include Métronome in your list ? I have a streamer from them and a friend a dac. Great stuff!

I must second the MSB recommendation. I have the Analog Dac with the upgraded power supply (Analog Power Base). Extremely smooth, great detail, separation, wide and deep soundstage, luxurious sound. You said you are OK with buying used and this dac can be found used for 6-7k USD, so well within your budget. Also, @tvad 's suggestion to buy used and try several dacs in your own system is spot on in my opinion.

@jjss49 has generously shared his very extensive experience with dacs in a recent thread, worth reading if you haven't already done so. MSB Analog Dac is among his top 3 preferred dacs iirc.

@navyachts not sure yet what the next dac will be. Still thinking about it. Not in a hurry at the moment. 

Best DAC I’ve heard is the Denafrips Terminator Plus 12th, and I am a Denafrips Pontus II owner. My short list when I do upgrade: T+A 200, Denafrips Terminator Plus, and whatever Lampizator I can afford

The Ferrum Wandla DAC here seems to be a sonic bargain. The Lampi Baltic4 and T+A 200 also sonically punches above their price points.