Just a bit of an update. When I inquired about a DAC upgrade in a recent post, it was suggested that I look at upgrading my cables first. Since then, I have done so (see my virtual system for that). Not over the top stuff, but a definite improvement over the mostly stock, generic cables I originally had.
System is sounding pretty darn good, but like most of us, you always wonder what a more expensive DAC will offer in the way of sound quality improvements.
Many of the recommended, higher priced DACs seem to include streamers and/or offer pre-amp capabilities. I have a good streamer and pre-amp and really don’t want all those components in one box.
Have any of you experienced a DAC which offers the sound qualities of highly praised units like the Mola Mola Tambaqui, DCS Lina, T&A 200, Weiss DAC501, etc. which their only function is a DAC?
My friend’s opinion on audio is like gold to me. The dude is a savant when it comes to audio. He came over to my place and heard the LIM with my big system, the Yamaha NS5000. It was not great with that slightly warmer system. I ended up using the Benchmark DAC3B for the rest of the listening and we both liked it more than the LIM combination. However, we both feel the DAC3B is just an OK DAC and too hot on top. He has the DAC3B in his lab.
Moving the LIM to my brighter office system which has the LRS+ and the Sanders Magtech made for an excellent combination. I listen to this system every day for hours. I know I can get more detail but I am loving the sounds as is.
The Yggi+ DAC is better than the DAC3B in many ways. That is why I have the more detailed OG on order for the Yamaha NS5000.
The LIM reminds me of the Sony SCD-1 SACD player I owned for 20-years. It was modded and an exceptional player. It was not the most detailed (compared to modern DACs), but the enjoyment factor was very high with it. The LIM is similar that way.
The main guy at Playback Designs was involved in the creation of the Sony SCD-1 so that is a big reason I am interested in the MPD-8 DAC sometime in the future.
"Do some research on the much cheaper Schitt Yggi+ Less is More. It was designed by a guy named Mike Moffet. I was telling a friend about the DAC 2 days ago. He is in the HiFi business, and he told me I was the 4th person that said great things about the LIM to him.
He also told me that he had a long conversation with Mike Moffet years ago when he did a project with Schitt and he thought MM came across as a digital genius.
I had the Gustard X26 Pro. It was bettered by the Musetec 005. It was bettered by the Lumin X1. It was bettered by the Schitt Yggi+ LIM. In fairness, the X1 is also an incredible streamer"
My very first DAC was a Schitt Gungnir that I paid $849 for in 2013. It didn't sound as good as my $500 Marantz CD player, so I never looked back at Schiit, thinking their name kinda says it all. Sounds like they have come a long way since then!
Cool. Glad to be of help. Btw preamp is built into most DACs nowadays.
MSB, Mola, Bricasti, Chord (above qutest), Playback Designs, PS Audio, T+A, DCS, Weiss. Some do it better than others. Berkeley doesn’t have volume control and they don’t have USB but they have MQA how awesome is that…LOL. Denafrips and Holo don’t have volume control if you want a chinese r2r dac. But I think you already have one.
@yyzsantabarbara👍😁The MPD-6 is excellent. I've heard the MPD-8 described as slightly warmer, but I have not heard them side by side. Have fun with the Yggi vs LIM.
@tvad@tomic601@audphile1OK, sure is nice to have such a large and knowledgeable support group, thanks to you all, very helpful! I will continue my search for now...
@navyachtsyou might not need network card but on a used dac it isn’t much if a price difference. Remote is an excellent option. Preamp is included no matter what. It’s an excellent preamp with properly implemented volume control that is defeated thru setup.
@tvadgives I believe excellent advice…. Buy / borrow / beg a few w solid resale and live w them a bit…. Then cull the herd and move North in the line w upgrades / model change…. Just my $1.50
Always best to consider the input / outputs the designer (s) considers optimal…. An interesting thread… lots of good advice… however, because it’s a DAC… pay careful attention to the A part… which on a new unit will likely require more than 15 days to form the caps…. There are a lot of component de jour / gear changers…. Typically chasing leading edge emphasis = detail…. Just my $.02
I'm suprised to see you said the PBD Merlot didn't work with your PLink based streamer. I used it with the PBD outboard streamer and later with another streamer and the PBD USB-X4 and Plink input with no issues. Best...
I never bought the Merlot, but my research indicated that there was a version change and the Stream-IF that I own would not work via Plink on the Merlot. I use the Stream-IF via SPDIF on my Benchmark DAC3B. It is a great streamer, even on SPDIF.
If I am wrong not a biggie since my eventual goal is to go with the MPD-6 or MPD-8.
It looks like the Yggi+ OG I ordered yesterday may arrive tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how it fairs with the LIM.
Agreed with @tvad100%
mentioned earlier in my responses as well…competition is fierce on USAM with M3 now. Score one under $3500 all in. You can spend the rest of your dough later if M3 tires you out. Get one with remote if you can. Excellent DAC and a great match with N200.
@audphile1 Retail on a new M1 SE is $10K, so $7,500 for a month old, dealer demo is decent, but you're right there is a 4 year old M1 SE here on AG for $5K...UGH!
@navyachtsBest of luck with the search! There are more analytical DAC's perhaps, but for realism, correct tonality, and music that SOUNDS like music and not a digital reproduction, the PBD DAC's are hard to beat. Keep your eyes open for a used Playback Design Edelwiess MPD-6 perhaps. Compared to the Merlot, you will find similar sonic signature and musicality, but improved dynamics and more resolution. All the best.
@yyzsantabarbara I'm suprised to see you said the PBD Merlot didn't work with your PLink based streamer. I used it with the PBD outboard streamer and later with another streamer and the PBD USB-X4 and Plink input with no issues. Best...
@navyachtsif you can swing the Bricasti, do it. It will be a good synergy and a solid DAC. What is LAIV? Looks like the next best shiny thing on YouTube…I don’t believe the hype sorry
@mclinnguygreat advice, thank you. So, you are happy with you your Weiss 501 in your system? I would imagine the Magnepans have a similar flair to the Martin Logans? Not sure.
@audphile1OK, I have passed on the Merlot. Now I have found a one month old Briscati M1 SE II demo unit for $7500. Full lifetime warranty. A tad more than I want to spend, but...
Or, I could wait a bit for the $2,700 Harmony Laiv DAC which seem to have some rave reviews, without breaking the bank.
Or @yyzsantabarbara’s suggestion of the Schitt LIM which works well for him. Which you can try out for 15 days.
…the N200 is optimized for USB so select a DAC with solid USB implementation.
That is an excellent point that needs to be emphasized.
Into my DAC my streamer/player's AES output absolutely trumps the USB output. As @audphile1states the N200 is the complete opposite.
For the 20 times the number of people viewing this thread than there are the number of posters, and the same goes for all the many other "I need a new DAC" threads, just something to take into account for those attempting to do some online shopping, and narrow down some new DAC purchase, as I just went through the same exercise a few months ago. I am off the merry-go-round (for now)
This whole "digital front end" part with its permutations can be complicated.
Context is everything-In a demo, which unit was doing the clocking? It is quite possible those who claim "DAC A was better than DAC B" we may not know exactly how it was setup or synergized with the rest of the system: Was it the streamer/player combo you heard, or was it just ethernet into the DAC, and which digital cabling etc. It matters.
As always: in home demo's are best with YOUR streamer/player, optimally set-up based on manufacturer's recommendations or users reports. And many are now finding their streamer/players are making a larger impact on the sound quality than the DAC anyway.
Oh and one other thing…the N200 is optimized for USB so select a DAC with solid USB implementation. Berkley Alpha for example doesn’t even feature USB input. So just be aware and do your research.
@navyachtsconsidering you are running Aurender N200, I would stick with reputable DACs in the same retail price range or more. You’re looking at $6,0000 + DACs. This criteria eliminates a lot of sideways moves and somewhat eliminates most hyped DACs. Don’t waste your time and money.
If your system is a bit bright, like my Magnepan LRS+. Then the LIM sounds really good on it. However, there are some who feel it is not very good. All I know is that it works really well with my brighter LRS+ but not perfectly with my warmer Yamaha NS5000. Now those comments are really about my perception.
Since it worked so well with my LRS+ I wanted the same pedigree DAC with a bit less of that "musicality" for my NS5000. I hope I get that with the OG version that I should get delivery this week. This is also a discontinued DAC but I learned why it was discontinued from someone at Schitt. So that did not stop me from buying the last one.
The PBD Merlot is also a discontinued DAC and was one I was looking to get for a short time if it worked with my PBD streamer’s Plink, it did not.
Check hifishark sold items. I’m seeing most under $4000. It’s up to you. Not familiar with how easy it is to sell this DAC. You also have a few Bricasti M3 out there meaning you can potentially score a good deal. Yes the M3 is the starting point of their lineup but is one heck of a DAC.
I would also add Chord to your list. If you’re looking to stay within $4,000-$6,000 range you can get Hugo TT2 with MScaler or even DAVE if you’re lucky.
@yyzsantabarbarathanks, I was going to reply to you tomorrow. Maybe I should give the LIM DAC a shot first? It's just these Merlots don't come up often and it's an inexpensive way to get a taste of the PBD genre.
@audphile1 Point well taken! I was going to pull the trigger on a 4-year-old, $4K, PBD Merlot DAC (unheard & no returns) tomorrow. Maybe I should re-think this?
@navyachts one other thing I wanted to mention - for your next DAC don’t be afraid to push towards more resolution. With ML speakers choosing DAC that is on a warmer/too laid back side of neutral would be a less than ideal match. I’ve not heard Playback Designs but from what I read they are mellow and relaxed. Careful not to tip the balance too much.
I decided to hold off on my desire to buy a Playback Designs MPD-8 for a while. I may get a used one in a few years once people move on to the next best thing. I already have a PBD Plink based streamer in the house for day I get a MPD-8 DAC.
To hold me for the next few years I was looking to get another Schitt Yggi+ DAC. I have the "musical" Less Is More (LIM) and wanted my new DAC to be more detailed. My speaker is a bit warmer than the speaker in my LIM system.
It was suggested to me to go for the last remaining Schitt Yggi+ OG. So I got that yesterday DAC instead of the Yggi+ More Is Better (MIB) that I was initially inquiring about.
From your description of the sound you want and also because of your Gustard R2R DAC you own, I would think the LIM is what you would like of the 3 Yggi+’s that I considered.
You can do a home demo of the LIM and MIB for 15-days. If it works out, you save a lot of money. The OG I got yesterday was the last one they had to sell. The LIM can be changed to the MIB, and maybe MIB to LIM for $850. I now have 2 Yggi+’s for the next few years.
Another warm-ish DAC for under $3k is the Musetec 005. Though I like the LIM more.
BTW - my last DAC before the LIM cost $15K. I think the LIM is better, even though I normally do not go for the "musical" thing for DACs.
I know EJ but I wouldn't consider us pals and like I said I tried the 10th anniversary DAC from all different reviews that I read but the one that really caught my eye was the reviewer putting it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge and after I put it in my system and heard it that was it for me this DAC will beat a lot of more expensive DACS, one of the other reviewers put it up against his own $9,000 COS1 that is worth $9,000 and it beat it and then he tried it against CHORD, PS audio direct stream and a few other much more expensive DACs and the 10th anniversary DAC beat them all, and since it comes with a 30-day trial period there's no risk in trying it.
@navyachtsYeah, it's the new kid on the block but I thought that from the couple sources linked being rather reputable makes it worth considering. Enjoy the Playback Designs Merlot!
@zuesman Well, it’s not the anniversary model, butI did have had a W4S 2v2 SE in the past and found it to quite good, thanks. Are you a pal of EJ's?
@nonoiselot of hype over this Harmony DAC, same as when the Gustard R26 came out. I think I’ll let the hype settle. In the meantime, I have my eyes focused on a used Playback Designs Merlot Dac. Thanks,
Try the Wyred4sound 10th anniversary DAC, one of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with the $5,000 Japanese cartridge and he said that the 10th anniversary DAC sounded just as analog, on that review I bought it and I totally agree it is so three-dimensional warm and analog sounding It's not even funny I wholeheartedly recommend it and it comes with a 30-day trial if you don't like it you can send it back and get all your money back after you hear it I don't think you'll be sending it back, It's not cheap though it's $4,500 US.
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