Apple lossless as a source

One change, I accidently swapped the Hagel fH190 for the H120.  Luckily @soix pointed it out and I just swapped it for the H190 with the store.  Total cost is now $3275.

Hegel H120 can probably be used with Mconnect and you don’t have to airplay to it. 

I decided to replace the receiver and add an integrated amp with streaming built in.

Video Source: Firestick 4k ->

TV: Sony X90CL ->

Receiver: YAMAHA RX-A2A AVENTAGE ->

Center + Surround speakers

Pre-outs ->

Integrated amp: Hegel H120 ->

Main Speakers: Totem Wind

The Hegal can supply the streaming from Qubuz or Tidal. Airplay is limited to lossless 16-bit/44.1kHz. I’ll test Apple vs Qubuz/Tidal to see if I can actually hear the difference and switch as needed. Reviews of the Hagel say it has pretty good DAC, Preamp, Amp. Should be plenty to drive the Totems at any volume I listen to.

Some context that wasn’t in this post (it’s kind of hard to get the whole situation in one forum post). My Totem Tabu’s have a blown driver at high volume/low frequency. So I wanted to replace those. Found a pair of Totem Wind’s for a good price.

This meant I needed more amp power so I posted another post about that issue. Emphasis-on-stereo-but-need-a-complete-solution

@soix made me realize I could replace the receiver and use the pre-outs to a good streamer integrated amp. The Hagel overcame my resistance to combining power amp and doc/preamp. Whole thing (without the Totems is $2575).

I’ll report back once I have everything setup.

You don't mention that you have a preamp. If you don't, for a reasonable priced DAC/preamp with volume control,I would recommend the Emotiva XDA-3 for $699. They do have 10% off your first order. If you want to save some money, a used Emotiva XDA-2 or Emotiva Stealth DC-1 are reasonable choices for about $250 to $300. There is a Stealth currently listed on Audiogon. 

For a reasonable priced basic streamer, I would recommend the WiiM Mini for $99 or the WiiM Pro for $149 on Amazon.

I have both the V2 and the CXN 100 in 2 different systems. The CA app allows for native Qobuz , either wired or via WiFi. Apple is either via Bluetooth, AirPlay, or Chromecast as discussed earlier.

Qobuz is a fine streaming service and it’s probably 1 step easier than having to ‘beam’ it from a phone. I was using it when my wife declared that she really wanted Apple Music. As most of my listening is from CDs that have been burned to my Melco server and then played back via the streamers, or else listening to Internet Radio with the streamers, I don’t want to pay for two streaming services. I find the Chromecast sound acceptable and the bother of having to ‘beam’ it to the streamer from the phone is no worse than the ritual of opening a CD and placing it in a player.

My complaint with Qobuz was canceling the service. They make it difficult to do from the site. Several attempts failed and every month I was disputing the charge with my credit card company. Qobuz customer support is AI, named Sebastian, which is as helpful as as dealing with Charles De Gaulle. I finally had to cancel the credit card to get rid of them. I suspect that you gave your credit card information as part of your free service. If you decide not to go with the service, check your monthly statement to make sure that you aren’t being billed

@moverton99 you will need to wait a few days. Lol

@mahler123 which Cambridge streamer?  CXN100?

@mahler123 I haven’t switch. Just took the trial to understand what it’s like.  Would much rather just keep Apple Music and have a good solution. I may try to chromecast option.  I just wish o could pull out my phone, switch the source to apple, and play great music.  I could dedicate an android table to the controller. Wouldn’t be that inconvenient. 

Nothing like asking one day for help with Apple, and then announcing the next day that they have switched to Qobuz.  I think I will wait a few days before I answer the next such query 

There’s a Octo dac8 Stereo that was highly praised in a stereophile review. You can add streaming as an option to it. My guess is you will have a network renderer in the dac8 that will allow you to use Mconnect to stream qobuz. I think the paid version of mconnect is about $6 or so if the free version isn’t good enough after you try it.
Throwing this out as option as that gives you a very decent DAC and ability to stream for under $1500 new. I haven’t heard the dac8 and am simply going by what I read in the review. I’m sure there are some on these forums that can chime in.
Running iPad into your amp is definitely an option but it’s just neither convenient nor good.

This whole thing reminds me of 4k tv.  No normal person can get 4k all the way from the service to the tv without a doctorate in gadgetology.  Luckily I'm semi retired and have time for all this.

I got a subscription to Qobuz and will try that out.  Of course, when I tried to bring over a playlist from apple I had to go through some third-party app that wanted me to subscribe to the premium version or it wouldn't move more that 200 songs. :-(  Rebuilding my 650 song playlist will be a project.

Qobuz should build a converter from other services in to make it easier to switch.

I'd prefer to keep the streamer and DAC/preamp separate.  I think the streamer will be obsolete long before the DAC.  Preamps never die.

I stream Apple Music from a Samsung tablet via Chromecast to my Cambridge Audio streamer.  The High Resolution tracks that Apple offers sound great this way.  If I use an Apple device, such as my iPhone, it doesn’t offer Chromecast so I have use AirPlay, which is better than Bluetooth, but Chromecast is preferred 

You can airplay apple music from your iPhone or iPad to a streamer that supports airplay. It’s a better option than Bluetooth. Honestly in that system you are unlikely to suffer a significant sonic degradation. If you want something better you woukd have to get a streamer with a built in DAC and subscribe to Qobuz or Tidal. 
A used Lumin D2 is a decent option in addition to what was already recommended above. I believe it also supports airplay but I would get Qobuz or Tidal and leave Apple Music for the car or a gym (Qobuz and Tidal also have apps and can replace Apple Music altogether).

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650078935-lumin-d2-dac-and-streamer-black-super-bang-for-the-buck/

@vonhelmholtz I looked for where to post my system details but can't find it.  Menu under profile says "virtual systems" but it throws an error: "Sorry, that user doesn't exist". 

Thanks for the help.

I contacted Bluesound about the Node X to see if it can stream from PC or iPhone in Hi Res.  Will update when I hear back.

"If you have a component that accepts Bluetooth, AirPlay, or Google Chromecast, then you can send Apple Music wirelessly to that component"

I don't think Airplay supports hi res.

Does anyone actually have a setup with PC -> DOC/Preamp -> amp with Apple Music?

Apple just updated AirPod Pro to accept high bit rate audio, but I don’t think that most Apple devices will transmit high bit rate via Bluetooth. Someone here will know the answer and I believe this is one reason that the post above discusses DAC dongles.

I think that a reasonable question would be at what price level can I purchase a used DAC that clearly outperforms computer streaming? I suspect that the answer is well under $1K. The next threshold for me would be at what spending level will allow me to hear improvements as I upgrade my other components? Another question might be, if I spend $5000 on a DAC and other upgrades to my present system, what components should I buy on the used market. The best approach to all these questions is to post your system on your profile so that others can quickly see what you are using. I know that you listed components in your original post.

Here is a discussion regarding posting your equipment on your profile….

BTW.. I have a family plan with Quboz and everyone can stream on their phones and in the car.  The family plan is not much more than the single license and allows for streaming in high bitrate, or low bitrate similar to other streaming services.  No, I can’t stream just using my watch like I can with Apple.

if I remove the apple assumptuon, what’s a good way to get a full catalogs fed to a. Amp? Again, without spending 5000$ to do it?

Simplest would be to get a streamer with a decent built-in DAC like the Node X or the Eversolo DMP-A8. Moving up the performance scale you can get a separate streamer and DAC that can run from around $1000 up to big $$$, so it really depends on what level of sound quality you’re looking for and your budget. IMO if you’re willing to spent at least $1500 in this you’ll get much better performance with a separate streamer and DAC. If you share your budget you’ll get more specific recommendations here.  Incidentally, what are you using as a source and preamp now?

You can attach a PC or and iPad or iPhone to your amp. They all have low quality DAC contained within . Then depending which device you choose you may need an adapter of some sort. I would take whatever device you choose to the Apple store and let them help you. If you already own the PC or portable device this is the least expensive option.

Sound quality can be improved by upgrading the DAC in the source. The simplest way to do this is to buy a DAC that looks like a usb flash drive that will attach to the source and then attach to the RCA input on the amp.

If you have a component that accepts Bluetooth, AirPlay, or Google Chromecast, then you can send Apple Music wirelessly to that component. I listed the 3 wireless alternatives in ascending levels of sound quality. You will need a DAC, but most have these devices come with an included one. The most common term for these components are streamers, but the terminology for digital can be ambiguous.

I have tried to make this as simple as possible. It can get very complex. I always think that beginners should go slow. However $5K is a healthy budget that can buy a quality set up

Try Bluesound Node X for $749. Good stable app and streamer / DAC that offers many options to stream music.

Yeah, I did some reading after posting this. Ridiculous how hard it is to use apple as a source.  I’m not attached to it but just made the bad assumption there would be a straightforward way of feeding it to an amp.  
if I remove the apple assumptuon, what’s a good way to get a full catalogs fed to a. Amp? Again, without spending 5000$ to do it?

Welcome.

As you probably know by now, Apple Music isn’t well supported by the audio equipment manufacturers and for good reason.  Apple’s move to better quality streaming is pretty recent.  If products haven’t yet manifested, they probably will at some point.  I only use Apple to stream through my watch when I leave my phone at home.  Quboz is what I use for streaming.  Whatever you do, go used to keep costs down.  That most likely would mean letting go of your attachment to Apple.