I've been seeing tiny bits of news about the ELAC DDP-2 streaming DAC since early last year and only recently has it become available online at a few retailers. However, there isn't a single review of it that I can find anywhere. With previous Audio Alchemy products getting great reviews, I can assume a certain level of quality nearly enough to go out on a limb and buy it for a 30-day trial, but I wanted to see if anyone has already taken that leap of faith.
From what I've read it combines the external DC power supply of the DDP-1 internally and uses AKM DACs in a balanced setup with onboard DSD and MQA decoding, upsampling, Spotify Connect and Roon and a headphone amp.
Regarding the Elac Alchemy DDP-2, I recently acquired one on the used market. I can only speak to its dac capabilities as that is its purpose in this system. The sound via the audio alchemy i2s standard via a Stello CDT100 was underwhelming. Not sure if it’s a transport issue or the dac. However, via the same transport with an aes/ebu the sound is phenomenal. To echo what a previous poster, personally I cannot distinguish much difference via the filters. Overall it is a good deal as a standalone dac.
Same question on the Amped AAP-1 preamp. I can’t find any reviews, but it ticks all the boxes I am looking for in a two channel preamp… HT pass through, good analog & digital, analog bypass, remote, small form factor, attractive.
@mahler123, "Elac Alchemy DDP-2" supports DLNA but its resolution is limited to 16Bits/44.1Khz only.
You are right about companies like Elac Alchemy & Bryston making almost everything right in DAC part but fails to be competitive in the streamer part. May be it is better for them to realise that streaming is also important and they need to develop their own streaming app like BluOS.
Read this thread with great interest. I currently use a Bryston DAC3 which also uses an AKM chip, I am wondering if it’s the same one. Parenthetically I note that AKM chips seem to remain available, as I thought that a fire had destroyed the company. I love this DAC. I had also bought the Bryston BDP3 streamer, which sounded great but I ultimately found unusable due to a plethora of networking issues. Bryston is now combing these 2 components and I would warn people off their streamer in any guise. Companies that excel in Audio stumble frequently when getting into streaming, which is basically IT, and now it seems that ELAC has joined that club. Why did they release this without DLNA functionality? For those of you that like the sound but have returned it for streaming issues, I would buy the Bryston DAC and get a separate streamer from a company that knows how to network
I am using "Elac Alchemy DDP-2" with Active Speaker "Elac Navis ARB-51" and absolutely pleased with the sound quality.
It excels in every department like Holographic Soundstage, Slightly warmer Midrange, Good Bass performance.
I wonder why "Elac Alchemy DDP-2" is not as popular as other DAC/Streamers like Lumin-T2. But I think Elac also has a part in it in not providing Firmware updates for enabling MQA and they could have implemented DLNA with Hi-Res capability (Currently supports upto CD Quality Only). Having said that, for someone using Roon, DDP-2 is a strong contender for one of the best DAC/Streamers under $4000.
I am expecting shipment of this unit tomorrow and after many hours of reading and research there is actually very little out there that helps a noob like myself.
I'm comfortable enough with spec at this price point and don't need further discussion regarding how the DDP - 2 compares to other similar devices.
My struggle is with a feature offered that ELAC refers to as a fixed gain output which can be used in a home theater application. I only use stereo for my home theater because it is in the same room as my listening room, and really, I'm okay with watching movies in stereo when the volume is turned up. I'm excited about stepping up to a component for music listening and have no issue understanding connection between the components for that.
Where I keep spinning is integrating with my current AVR. As stated I listen in stereo so am currently using pre outs from AVR L R to amps then speakers.
My reasoning concludes use the AVR pre outs to a set of inputs on the DDP 2 and fiddle with volume controls when watching TV or movies.
The home theater bypass are outputs on the DDP 2. To me it makes little sense that you output to the AVR unless you have a completely separate set of amps and speakers to use when watching TV, movies. The analog output from the DDP 2 is superior to the AVR's so what did ELAC envision with these as outputs? The only information I've gleened is these outputs are very useful but for what?
Hoping someone can talk noob and help me understand how this works.
Bumping this thread since I haven't been able to find much on the DDP-2.
I started back into 2ch at the start of SIP (needed a new hobby) and initially tried out the NAD C658. Nice unit despite all the critical stuff online about it. Sounds great; does a lot; software is very good. Of course, in this hobby, many of us chase the dragon for better, clearer, etc. I demo'd a bunch of different equipment including the DDP-2 and was really impressed. It sounds amazing for the price and is a clear improvement over the NAD with and without Dirac. No matter what amp i paired it with, it sang - of course some better than others. I tried the DPA-2 and I think either something was wrong with it or i had it hooked up wrong because it did not sound great. Will have to try again. The amp pairing I liked best was the Benchmark AHB2. Amazing amounts of clarity, depth and zero fatigue played at any volume for hours. In a perfect world, it would be 2x Benchmarks bridged but can't justify the $$ for a little extra mid bass.
I would agree with many that it's not a great streamer in the traditional sense. Doesn't have the flexibility of the NAD by any stretch. My primary streaming use is Roon which combines 17K+ files with Tidal. With Roon it's great. Only slight is the lack of full MQA decoding which Elac customer support tells me is likely a couple of months away via firmware.
Highly recommend this unit especially if you can find one used.
I heard this device at the last Axpona driving Elac speakers with Peter doing the demo and was sufficiently impressed to purchase it and the companion Alchemy amp from Music direct on the spot for a system that has yet to be built. Am currently temporarily using them for a two channel HT setup and am impressed. Not definitive, but my main system comprises a PS direct stream junior feeding an Ayre KX 5-20 pre feeding 6 channels of Pass amps into a tricked out set of the most recent version of Linkwitz Orion’s. Point being, the AA/Elac combo punches well above its weight. It may be possible to do better, but you can certainly do much worse for the money.
I am using the DDP2 with Mconnect app playing Tidal and Qobuz, quality is great and significantly better then Airplay, but sadly not gapless. It is not only stopping for a second, ifs even jumping in the song to another place ... not really nice. Hope Elac will solve that.
Thanks for the feedback, I've tried the mconnect app with a Chomecast and couldnt get gapless playback. Assume its the same with the DDP2? Have you tried Roon?
This topic seems to be dead!? Just wanted to let you guys know that I managed to run Qobuz via Upnp directly from the DDP2 using the Mconnect app. Here I am really impressed. Quality increased now significantly compared to Spotify! Now I really love it. I never heart a difference between Spotify and Quobuz to be honest. With Airplay all sounds same medium good, but also my Bluesound Node didnt make a difference between Q and S, therefore I quit the Qobuz abo. Now i am thinking to extend the test phase :).
The only thing i am wondering is why its not getting more then 44,1khz via Qobuz Upnp, eventhough the song has 96 or more. Hope the next Firmware Update will manage that.
Hello, I have a question in using Qobuz with the DDP2. I just have it since 1 week and was streaming it via Airplay so far. Sound was very good, maybe even better then Spotify. But I had problem in sending the full 192/24 high res via Airplay: it stopped several times. Second i didnt like that my phone was needed full time and that music stopped when I got a call.
Knowing that the sound quality of Spotify Connect on the DDP2 has clearly a better quality then streaming it via Airplay, I am wondering if Qobuz would also sound better if it would not run through Airplay?
How can I stream Qobuz HighRes directly to the DDP2? Will the app Mconnect be able to do that?
boxer, +1. I can't see replacing my DDP-1/PS 5 anytime soon
Hard to imagine the goodness that the PS 5 adds could be crammed into the DDP-2, unless PM was able to include a HQ SMPS. I replaced the OEM SMPS in my Oppo 105 with a LPM to excellent affect
One thing I do appreciate about the physical design is the slim profile. One could easily stack on top of a cd player, etc. The DDP-2 may actually turn out to be the biggest bang for the buck.
If you don't mind used... I saw a DDP-1 with the PS-5 power supply for around $1400 just recently. It's either here or audio mart. It really is a great sounding DAC
I’ll chime in as the owner of a DDP-1 with separate PS-5 upgrade power supply. The DDP-1 was initially recommended to me as being of exceptionally good audio quality, especially considering its price point. The fellows who recommended it do ultra ultra high end audio installations and really know good audio. I have a pretty nice old-fashioned stereo setup headed by Quad ESL-63 Speakers and I had just added the Naim Uniti Core for a music streamer when I bought the DDP-1. I needed a DAC in between the Naim and my Integrated amp. They were right - the audio is phenomenally good! I just noticed ad ad in a catalog for the DDP-2 and looked for a review and found this thread instead. I was amused by the comments about how plain the box looks. I liked it a lot because it doesn’t shout at me like the DDP-1 does. That u-g-l-y external design is the ONLY thing I don’t like on the DDP-1. The new DDP-2 will have a lot to beat to sound better than the DDP-1. I am just about to audition a $20k DAC and I’ll be surprised if it sounds a lot better than the DDP-1. I’m no expert but I think the streamer built into the DDP-2 must have been designed to appeal to first timers to streaming. I don’t think it will turn out to be a good marketing choice, especially without great software to back it up. And even then, separates are almost certainly a better idea.
About a year ago I bought the DPA-1 first, then a couple months later the DDP-1, sans PS 5. It took 5 months to acquire a solo PS -5 direct from factory, as no one wants to sell it separately and WOW what an improvement the PS 5 made/makes. I am feeding it with a slightly moded Oppo 105, where the incoming power and IEC were upgraded as well as replaced the crappy SMPS with a aftermarket LPM from Ebay. I also have a Marantz HD CD-1 that I bought to use as a transport, but it's skipping and I haven't gotten around to finding out the problem, and the Oppo sounds pretty damn good, though far from a TOL transport
FYI I have seen a DDP-1 + PS 5 for sale at the ridiculous price of $1100
right now, my wish list is head to head between the TEAC NT-505 and the DDP2 next down the chain is the NAD C658 then various chi-fi, which will end up on the end of a generic USB cable in me stack yup
I got to see inside the DDP-2 with a video posted of it on the ELAC Alchemy Forum. There is some serious hardware inside, and I have no doubt that the DDP-2 will be one of the best buys you can get for a Preamp, DAC combination. I am astonished by the sound of my last generation unit (DDP-1) and the new unit really has an ability to sound as good as those units costing many times more.
I just find it hard to see the new DDP-2 being better than the DDP-1. Just the fact that the DDP-1 has the power supply externally, and is quite substantial on the inside. So is the parts on the inside of the DDP-1 itself (think Constellation Audio). It just makes me wonder about cost cutting with the company going over to ELAC. I have a DDP-1 and it is very very good for preamp and DAC. Worth many times what you pay for it. Squishing all what is in the DDP-1 into the DDP-2 seems not likely. I use a 5 meter USB Audioquest Cinnamon to connect from my Microsoft Surface Clone (Acer 12). It was recommended by a Doctor that has very sensitive instruments. He has gone thru years of using substandard USB cables at the 5 meter length. Only to find the Audioquest works every time. Sitting with my touchscreen Win 10 machine next to me, I can use Groove Music to listen to flac files, or using wireless AC getting Tidal to produce the tunes. Some of the audiophiles with money say that the
Aurender N100H Network Music Streamer
or greater gives them better sound for really high end stuff. It offers a 2 terabyte drive to put your music files on and you use an Ipad at your chair to choose songs. These audiophiles say they can clearly hear a difference with the better electronics in the Aurender Units. In closing, I really wanted to like the DDP-2, but I think the original DDP-1 has superior electronics, (but no MQA unfolding). Tidal masters still sound fantastic on my system. I also use a Singxer USB Bridge (SU-1) between my laptop and the DDP-1, and connect to the DDP-1 with AES/EBU. It sends a purer signal to the DDP-1 with the Singxer SU-1 using Femto Clocks to really remove jitter. Is it needed with the DDP-1? Not sure, but it has worked so well with other DACs I have had. Supposedly, the brain behind Audio Alchemy, Peter Madnick, has been a master of removing jitter on digital audio to back all the way to the nineties
offering similar jitter reducing boxes. So my Singxer SU-1 may not be needed. I have quite a good system going with Krell Vintage KSA-200S and Martin Logan Montis speakers, and the DDP-1 just brought the sound to another level with my system. I also put inline a Schiit Freya preamp in "tube mode" with (4) 6SN7 tubes. It makes for a really nice smoothness, and I can press a button and turn the Freya preamp into pass-thru and listen with no tubes. Then the last part is 2 REL S3 subwoofers, hooked in stereo directly to the speaker outs on the Krell KSA-200S. These are sitting on the inside of the Martin Logan Montis for bass foundation, and not the thumpy bass that most subs put out. The sound is at the top of the chain, and I can say the the Audio Alchemy DDP-1 DAC and Preamp changed my system to fantastic. Any thoughts on the construction of the new DDP-2, or pics of the inside would be of great help.
To be clear, it will stream Spotify without a computer. It only needs a network connection for your phone to see it as a Spotify Connect endpoint and stream. No issues with that.
Dealer in full discloser. Have some more experience with the DDP-2 as a DAC and as an analog preamp, I total agree with rickallen81, " it’s really really good". Sounds like high end separates. I have used it both as a DAC and preamp together for many weeks.
I’m new to the server, streamer, end of the hobby. We have had many separate DACs and preamps using laptops and tidal for streaming. My question is the same as some of yours, whats up with a streamer? If I need a computer either way why add it? Sounds like I’m paying for something that is inadequate for its purpose, if so, why add more stuff?
This is where the server, streamer, end point device has been confusing to me. I remember the times before digital anything existed. Mixing a computer with my audio is kind of forced on guys like me. I like the convenance and selection of streaming. You can always buy the music if you like it, so I’m learning.
For streaming with the DDP-2 you still need a music server (another word for computer). This runs your music and operates your service such as roon, Spotify and many others. The DDP-2 is a roon endpoint. This means that roon will recognize the DDP-2 as a device on your network for you to select and stream to. The list of supported services includes PCM, DSD, DoP, Roon endpoint, Spotify Connect, MQA..
I have been using a Discovery music server, but there are many available and a computer will work too. One important note when using the DDP-2 with your server; the DDP-2 and your server must both be connected to the SAME network preferably over an ethernet connection. This allows them to communicate.
In my case I had been using my laptop for serving and ran a USB cable from the laptop to the DDP-2 and streamed tidal that way.
Most recently using a server has been nice. The server and the DDP-2 are connected with ethernet cables to our wireless router. My laptop is connected to the (LAN) network wirelessly as a controller for the app.. Now the laptop is used for many things and it not tied up just for audio streaming. The DDP-2 is directly connected to the router with a short ethernet cable. The audio is not being processed through my laptop any longer and the laptop is free to move around the house.
Being able to connect direct to your router and LAN, then streaming direct to the DDP-2 works very well. Thats the streamer part.
It is not a server. Thats the computer that is used as a source and human interface.
Hope this helps and is not confusing. Happy to answer questions. I will ask the factory guys any questions you may have, that I don’t have answers to.
Thanks for prompting me. I ended up returning it. As a DAC and probably as a preamp it’s really really good. I was primarily interested in a streaming DAC and it does most of that, but too many of the features advertised weren’t fully baked so rather than hope they would be all that I would like, I decided I would risk going beyond the no return policy to find out.
The DAC is really really good. I kind of wish they left streaming out of it and just made a really good DAC because it sounds great. The filters on it are arguably too subtle to differentiate, but there was some slight flavor difference between them.
Didn’t get to try it as a pre amp since it was going straight into an Integrated amp, but the sound quality from the DAC section was very encouraging.
Overall, I’m going to wait a bit and let them flesh out the software and try some different standalone streamers with a standalone DAC. Probably going to try an R2R just to see what the fuss is about and thinking of the MHDT Orchid for that first.
Apparently all the hifi developers are hardware guys who think software is just an after thought. When my streamer locks up mid song and I not only have to shut it off but unplug it to clear the problem, then it doesn't matter how good it sounds when it's playing, my listening experience has been ruined. It appears that Elac is trying to avoid some software problems by relying on other people's software. Good luck. Auralic states that they are giving up on Android software and only developing iPhone apps. Good luck in kissing off half your market. I have a suggestion, farm out your software development to a company that specializes in that sort of thing.
I appreciate the response. While the methods you mentioned are possible, in my mind it kind of defeats the purpose of having a streaming DAC if I have to connect it to a computer. If I’m doing that, I might as well do all of the streaming from a computer and get a DAC that doesn’t have the capabilities for it built in. I know it’s pretty much the standard these days, but i really wish products wouldn’t be released until they are fully baked and not with an asterisk beside certain advertised features. I know that’s not always possible.
Just came across this thread. In the most recent update, we added DLNA support. We did not officially announce it yet since we are still tweaking it a bit. You should be able to use apps like MConnect (For content on your phone as well as Tidal/Quobuz) and Jriver for your laptop to playback files stored on your PC through the DDP-2. I forwarded this thread to Peter so I am sure he will add some comments. We are working on updating the manual to reflect the most recent updates.
Peter is traveling at the moment, however, I am guessing he will respond soon.
The headphone amp has thankfully gotten a bit better since I’ve left headphones on it for a few days to break in if it needs that. Picking up the headphones again, I found it had improved and sounded more fleshed out. So there’s hope.
On streaming from services, I’m using Spotify connect and it’s worked very well with the DDP-2. No playback issues, no dropouts, no noise, no problems.
There are zero instructions for how to get my flac files to stream to it and it and the web interface is barebones. You can only rename the device on the network and login to the WiFi. That’s it. So for streaming on your own network or for non-Roon browsing and playing your files, it offers no solution.
For that alone, because of the amount of files I have, I may be returning it so I can get a better and more cohesive streaming solution with a Bluesound Node and a different less costly DAC.
In my experience the software controlling the streaming functions is very important. For streaming, a remote control is inadequate. A smartphone or tablet app is essential and a quick review on Google Play shows the apps for most of the streamers out there are buggy. I have a Marantz streamer and its phone app is not ready for prime time. Instead I use Bubble-Upnp (free) to stream high resolution files from my network, the Spotify app (requires Spotify subscription) to cast its playback to my streamer and either the Marantz app or XiiaLive (free, but works with Bubble-Upnp) to cast internet radio. That's a separate app for each streaming source instead of the single Marantz app that unsuccessfully combines the sources.
So, are you using a phone app to control the streaming functions? Which one? Does it stream from your network without stopping or worse, locking up? Have you solved your network streaming problem yet? How is the analog section of the preamp? Do you have a turntable and a phono preamp?
I really appreciate the information you've posted so far.
The DAC is really really good. Tons of space between instruments which makes it easy to pick up nuances previously unnoticed in songs. Not as much midrange punch and warmth as I would like but the neutrality across the range is really nice.
I plugged in some headphones today (Sennheiser HD650) and it’s fairly disappointing. Compared to the headphone amp on the Parasound, the ELAC is thin and veiled. To get the Senns to sound as well rounded as on the Parasound, I have to crank it to uncomfortable levels. Where the Parasound imaged sounds as though they were coming from the inside of my forehead, it’s like everything is behind my head and through a blanket. Hopefully, it’s just that the headphone amp part has not gotten any attention and needs some break in as well.
Similar experience here. On par with high end separates at many times its cost. No need for a leap of faith to order one. I take the risk. 30 day In Home Trial. Free Shipping, No restocking fee. For the next 10 people who order, I’ll even pay the return shipping coming back to me, if you are less than 100% satisfied. I want to get more of the Alchemy Series components out in the field for reviews from real people. These products can stand on their performance and value. No risk to try them in your system. On the rare occasion of a return, we process the refund the same day the item is received as shown by the tracking #. No delays or hassle at all. Excellent DAC and Linear supply FET pure analog preamp. Don’t take my word for it, try it.
I'll be showing the DDP-2 Preamp-DAC at Axpona April 12-14 feeding a pair of Bob Carver Crimson 350 Mono Blocks. Room 1215
Weeeeelll shoot. I just had an a-ha moment with this DAC. One of my test songs that I know backward and forward sounded pretty damn awesome. You may laugh but it’s Gordon Lightfoot’s If You Could Read My Mind. I’ve always loved the layering of three guitars, a bass guitar, and a set of strings. I can’t recall hearing them more clearly separated and identifiable in space. With many other sources, there tends to be a smearing of the instruments such that strings all sound like a synthesizer and not a violin, viola, and cello. I had the thought during the song “well, how am I supposed to return this now?”
Still getting a bit smoother day by day. Voices are standing out nicely now. Listening to some Fleet Foxes and it’s sounding much more natural than day one with a little more separation in between layers of the songs. Still a bit of not-broken-in smear but I’m seeing more and more of the “character” of the DAC which I’d now describe as decidedly solid state with controlled sound but supplementing some of the spooky realness and depth and width that tubes seem to add.
@rickallen81 Thanks for the updates, and please keep them coming. The DDP-2 is a promising-looking piece of gear, but it is difficult to find user reviews.
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