Anybody here upgrade from Chord Qutest DAC"

Add M-Scaler and be happy...

What will the mscaler do for me soundwise? 

@mmhifi

hahaha add m scaler, then you feel the qutest isn't good enough - need a tt2 hugo or dave

never ends - guess there are worse diseases  :)

I know, it's a crazy perfectionist pursuit, but damn if it isn't fun too.

But seriously, anyone upgrade from a chord qutest? 

I have a Qutest and auditioned the Hugo TT2 at home in my system for a week.

The TT2 was a noticable step up in almost every aspect - greater extention on bass and treble, instruments and vocals had more body and texture, and soundstage was wider. I think it was slightly more forward sounding in my system as well compared to Qutest.

Switching back to the Qutest, on the first day, the music sounded more constrained but as my ears adjusted, everything sounds great and I don't miss the TT2.

I might still upgrade to the TT2 in a few months :)

Thanks. I'm hoping to hear a TT2 from a friend's system shortly. He says similar things. Thanks for the reply. Have you ever heard the M scaler? 

With that ear 868l pre there is no sense going with the TT2...  Do you need an additional embedded pre in the loop? Keep the Qutest and add an Mscaler or go to the Dave...  You don't say what your streamer is...  Maybe an upgrade there would help...  I have a Lumen U1 mini with my Qutest and am very happy with the pair in my system streaming Qobuz Studio Premier...

Definitely don't need another pre, that's true. I'll look into that aspect of TT2 features.

I am super curious about the mscaler, but also about non chord DACs. 

I use a hifiberry digi + for streaming.  Does top notch qobuz beautifully most of the time. Cheap and from what I can tell excellent roon endpoint. While I can't say that's not room for upgrade there, I want to see what other DACs might do first. 

I tried qutest and hugo tt2. Hugo delivers lots more depth and detail. The clarity and precision of the bass was most noticable.  I am saving for the m scaler, rather than considering chord Dave and intend on using it for multiple digital sources.

Both the Qutest and Hugo TT2 have a 10 element pulse array design...
The Qutest has 49,152 16FS WTA 1 filter...  The Hugo TT2 has 98,304 taps...  Dave has 164,000 taps and a 20 element Pulse Array...  The MScaler takes either the Qutest, Hugo TT2 or Dave up to 1,015,808 WTA taps...

There is some software available with/for Roon that can Upscale similar to the MScaler called HQPlayer...  I think there is a free trial for it...  Although not exactly the same filtering as WTA it might give you a sense of what a bunch more taps might sound like with your current DAC...

Also, if you can do a little software building there are mods to SoX and FLAC which allow similar upscaling and filtering capabilities for free...

Other non-Chord DACS will not have the same timing precision which may or may not be a good thing depending on your ear/brain/system/room...  Good luck in your quest...

These DAC technologies are absurd, in the best way. I know the difference between 10 pounds and 20 pounds, but 10 elements and taps vs 20 and 20, I don’t think so.

i like the HQ Player idea, though. Never heard of it.

Interesting about the potential loss of timing precision with non chord DACs. I hope that’s not always the case.  But cool to keep that in mind.  So many other highly regarded DACs out there, 

@redwoodaudio 

I have a Qutest and almost sent it back when I first tried it.
The standard plug & play was too detailed for me !    Lol
I like DSD ( sacd ) Sound profiles in general 

I also tried a Playback Designs Merlot DSD dacThe best dac I’ve been around, period 
it was there with the Qutest  

Anyway , Roon has a upsampling dsp, similar to the Chord 1Mm device , but all software .

I played with all the dsp things and settled on the 2x DSD upsample 

it was pretty close to the Merlot when done 

try the Roon thing first and see how you like it !

jeff 

Thanks very much. I'll try roon upsampling and hqplayer upsampling with the qutest. I've never played a dsd track before. 

If you are ready to go down the rabbit hole, see this paper which describes the WTA algorithm and its effects on the reconstruction of analogue from digital signals...  https://www.moon-audio.com/content/pdf/chord/chord-tech-profile-hifi-critic.pdf

Also, note that the Qutest and TT2 convert DSD back to PCM internally...  Upsampling to DSD just breaks small signals, which some may like or dislike depending on your ear/brain/system/room...

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. 

I upgraded from the Qutest to a Hugo TT2 and then I went back to the Qutest. The Hugo sounded very smooth and light and airy, with it's vocals more forward. It was soft and light sounding compared to the Qutest. I preferred the Qutest as it seemed to have more meat on the bone with a richer sound with slightly more impact. I guess it comes down to your system and personal taste.

@redwoodaudio I’m in the same situation. What did you decide? I very briefly looked at your system but could not quickly recognize the DAC . I’m also considering the M-scaler rather than a different DAC.  Thanks!

By the way,  in the past year I bought a new streamer and the improvements have shocked me. Previously I had never believed a streamer made that much difference. It does. I was OP on a thread about my choice.

txp1, may I ask what streamer did you end up with? I recently bought a Lumin U2 mini and so far the changes are mostly positive but there are some downsides which I suspect is more to the unit requiring break-in and a cheap power cable that’s currently connected to it. I also have the Lumin plugged in to a cheap power strip which I believe is limiting its full potential as well.

@ryder I bought the Aurender N150.  You’ve identified many of your issues. I’d recommend a good power cable as well as a good power strip. And give it lots of listening time burn-in.  I could clearly hear changes to 100 hours and more subtle changes far past that.

 I use a Shunyata Taipan power cable that I had available. I have it plugged directly into my Shunyata Hydra power conditioner. If you need a good power strip I highly recommend the Furutech TP-66 gold or rhodium versions. Any high quality power strip will be an improvement.  

@ryder Also if you decide to buy a new power cable or strip, they are the worst for requiring long burn-in times.  Best of patience to you!

Thanks txp1. That’s it. The Furutech will be the one. I’ve actually shortlisted the e-TP609 NCF earlier but am not sure about spending the money. Looks like it is about time to get one into the system since it’s not wise to skimp on the power strip/conditioner that may hamper performance.

I already have the Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) power outlet and this one truly brings a huge difference when combined with Acrolink cords on my main components, amps and DAC. And yes, long break-in for the GTX-D NCF receptable, for me it's 300+ hours before I start to hear the magic!

@ryder  “ for me it’s 300+ hours before I start to hear the magic!”.
So true! I didn’t want to say this because most people don’t believe it. Power components are the worst for long burn-in times, cables, strips, conditioners, etc. If you’re fortunate you’ll hear improvements immediately. That just means you were already in power quality crap audio land. Burn-in will improve audio over time. I didn’t believe it until I experienced it decades ago.

After borrowing my friend's Cutest for a week, I bought DAVE and never looked back.  Very happy.  Added M-scaler.  even happier.

 

Good luck,

Jerry

i too started with the lowest chords (mojo, 2qute, qutest) and then found great satisfaction from the m scaler/hugo tt2 combo which i have kept

chord dacs have a certain sound (vast yet precise imaging, energetic, see-through in clarity, perhaps a touch lean in the lower ones, gaining increasing richness of tone and bass weight as one moves up) and if they match up to your system needs they bring tremendous joy and articulation and sense of realism to a good system

@txp1 

A little over 2 weeks ago a Rockna Wavelight replaced a Chord Qutest in my main rig. The Qutest replaced a Bryston BDA1 in March of 2019.

What has been gained: Wider, deeper, more holographic sound stage that extends well beyond the speakers.  Even more highly resolving.  Much warmer  presentation (which for me and my system was a very good thing).  A fuller suite of inputs and outputs including i2s.

What has been lost:  The sheer cuteness of the Qutest's wonderfully compact form factor. The Rockna is a very good looking piece, but it is 17" wide and 12" deep. And a seriously deeper hit to the pocketbook.

 

@jjss49 @jazzman7  I pulled the trigger on a M-scaler. I’ve got a long time to evaluate it.  I read all reviews of it with the Qutest.  I hope it works for me. I need more meat in the lower mids because I mostly listen to jazz. 

@txp1 

I use the M-Scaler with the Hugo2 and the Dave.  You've probably figured it out by now, but the M-Scaler really isn't about frequency response, it's about coherence.  It brings the music and the acoustic ambience together something fierce.  I did NOT want to spend the $5k for the thing, but I find it really hard to listen to either the Dave or the Hugo2 without it now.  

So in evaluating it, I'd recommend not listening for specific detail-y things like bass or highs or whatever, but rather by just sitting back and seeing whether you enjoy the music listening experience more with or without it.  

I knew I had to keep the thing when I found myself still in my chair having to badly go to the bathroom after hours of listening, but not being able to leave the music.  I also know because all I have to do is hit the bypass and I immediately am less engaged with the music.  

Anyway, will be curious what your experience is.  Good luck!

@hayas Thanks but I Canceled the M-scaler purchase. I’m still considering a R2R DAC such as the Sonnet Morpheus or Pasithea or the Audio Mirror Troubadour IV.  

I had the Qutest a few years ago and changed it for the Denafrips Pontus II, a more natural sound dac. Although I didn’t do a side-by-side comparison, I remember to have a inconsistent enjoyment from the Chord: great with some recordings and so so much with others, making the sound too sharp to my liking.

But I would love to try one again :)

Qutest with M-Scaler gets close to the Hugo TT2 plus M-Scaler filter length  1,064,960 divided by 1,114,112 =95%.  If you don't need a headphone amp, bluetooth, and balanced outlets go with the Qutest and save a few thousand dollars.

You don't have to understand taps and filter length.  What is important is to know that the M-Scaler fills in the spaces between the samples making the music smoother, more dynamic, more like analog etc. The gap between music recorded at 44.1khz sample rate is greater than the space between 176.4khz and so on.  You can read about Rob Watts theory on a white paper available on the Chord M-Scaler website.  

My digital front end upsamples everything to 705.6 or 768khz.  Digital System components: Roon Nucleus via ethernet to Lumin U1 via USB to M-Scaler and Dual Silver Dragon BNC cables to the Qutest.  I use the Incisive neutral filter on the Qutest for ultra linear frequency response.  I'm very happy with the sound quality.

Qutest with M-Scaler gets close to the Hugo TT2 plus M-Scaler filter length 1,064,960 divided by 1,114,112 =95%.

that is definitely one way to think about it, but it would be rather incomplete... the hugo tt2 has a significantly better output stage (leaving aside driving headphones) and power supply -- i had the qutest and hugo tt2 simultaneously (along with the m scaler), and the sonic advantage afforded by the hugo tt2 over the qutest was substantial in my system, mostly in a more relaxed yet resolving nature of the sound, added midrange warmth and bass weight, and imaging size and most notably, depth

I’ve had a Qutest for a number of years now. I keep almost buying some other DAC but keep being blown away with the soundstage and separation I get from the Qutest.

I search around, read reviews and get ready to pull the trigger... but then I play something from Qobuz or from my CXC CD transport and BOOM. I’m sold on the Qutest all over again. I do have an Sbooster PS powering the Qutest.

Someday, I know I’ll make the leap.

PS. When I got my Qutest they were $1,800 and I noticed the other day that they’ve gone up to $2,100!