OP, just to chime in. I went from using the Hegel H390 as a DAC and streamer to using the T2. OMG, what a difference. Even before I broke in the Lumin T2, the SQ was breathtaking. Suddenly I could hear each instrument unfold separately while at the same time, every piece of the music came together. After running it 24/7 for two weeks, the sound was even sweeter and more complex.
I second comments of @rajivhifi.I will add that I replaced the stock cable with one from audiosensibility - which was definitely part of the equation. |
Can you really here a difference! Even if you do a blind test. A dealer told me a Belcanto sounds better, but no one talks about Bellanto. If so what causes the sound difference? Is it clock speed. |
The Anthem 1120, I believe, cannot use a different DAC. I was recently told by Anthem it doesn’t matter input you chose with the Node and it doesn’t matter what DAC you chose you get the Anthem DAC. I’m probably wrong but I would find out.
Duffy |
Can you really here a difference! Even if you do a blind test. A dealer told me a Belcanto sounds better, but no one talks about Bellanto. If so what causes the sound difference? Is it clock speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJIj0Acq99o&t=245sthe raspberry pi is used here as the case study but the general points answer your query |
OP here. After reading the various comments and hearing the T2 I will probably replace my Bluesound with the Lumin T2. Might as well spend the money once and know I have an excellent streamer. I know from the comments that there are cheaper and maybe better solutions. I think for what I want to T2 is probably my best option |
Slight tangent. I have a Node 2i I plan to move to a second system after an eventual upgrade (so this is a great thread). I have an SSD I plug into the back of the Node for files to augment what is available streaming. I would like to have all my files still accessible over the network by the Node as well as whatever new streamer I upgrade to. What are my options besides going to Roon or another server? Should I look primarily at streamers with no internal storage and plan on running an NAS? Do any of the next tier streamers have an easy way for the Node to use them as a server. I doubt I'll ever run both systems simultaneously. I just don't want to maintain multiple libraries, I'm bad enough at keeping up with one. |
GB,
I recently bought the Innuos Zen 3 new for $2,200. Shop around.
Why the Innuos Zen 3? The Lumin is prettier I admit.
-No DAC builtin- Spend the same or more on the new DAC.
-Takes Roon
-Rated as a "Better Buy" than the Zenith model at $4.600
so don't overspend here. Per Darko or another credible source.
-Burns and stores CDs, SACDs but not BluRay.
I hope that helps.
Now spend a good deal more time buying the DAC. Since you are
already about $2k ahead if you follow my suggestion, great choices
abound!
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Another vote for Melco. Recently replaced the Node 2i with the Melco n-100, all Japanese internal components, with a 2TB HDD. Primarily use it for streaming Tidal. Nice improvement.
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I apologize but did you not see my question, I assumed you were using the 1120.
Duffy
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Take a look at the Matrix Audio Element X. I’d put mine up against a Lumin T2 any day of the week…and it’s about $1k cheaper. I briefly had the Altair G1 and the Matrix easily betters it. Also, the Matrix has the most advanced DAC chipset (ES9038PRO vs ES9028PRO & ES9038Q2M) of the three, and, unlike the Lumin, a built-in Noratel linear PSU. |
Hilde45: it seems there’s only one circuit board to purchase from PD Creative which is out of Poland. Was a very good buying experience for me. You just choose whether you buy it with their power supply or shop for your own. Takes the ac buzz out of the box. |
Bluesound updated the Node 2i in June 2021. They have changed DACs and made other improvements, such as adding HDMI. Is the new Node worth a look? |
Oh, have I learned my lesson chasing down the rabbit hole with streamers . While there is some differences , i have found that just adding a dac to the node was more than suffice , hell even the dac in the node2i isn’t too bad on its own . In the end just enjoy the music !!! |
@elsfan
I did the same with Pawel. Great guy and very helpful.
He steered me to the SBooster 5V/3A LPS to use with his PSU interface upgrade(which was a snap to install). I am using a modestly upgraded power cable as well.
With my Classe SSP-800 DAC the Node 2i really swings.
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I upgraded from the Node to the Cambridge CXNv2 and have found it to be a solid upgrade. I wanted to keep a simple interface across multiple services (similar to BluOS). Also needed Spotify connect support. Tried the Moon streamer/DAC and the Cambridge was clearly the best bang for the buck. (Note: I also took advantage of the balanced analog outputs, so that likely played a factor as well). |
OP here. I am not just looking to replace my streamer. I am doing a major upgrade of my home theater system with a second subwoofer and a separate 3 channel amp to run LCR speakers. I am also replacing my ceiling speakers with much better ones. I am also replacing speaker wire and cables with much better wire. Adding a streamer is part of a comprehensive upgrade.
Realistically how much of an improvement will a high end streamer make over a Bluesound Node 2i?
I realized last night that listening to Qobuz with my Node2i was not that much better than listening to Apple Lossless through my Apple TV music app.
If I buy the Lumin T2 it will cost about 10X what the Bluesound costs. Should I expect a huge improvement in the music for $4500 or will it be more subtle with somewhat better detail, separation of instruments a better soundstage? I am hoping that before I spend the money replacing the Bluesound I will be able to compare the Lumin to the Bluesound on my upgraded system. |
I replaced my bluesound node 2i with a Lumin D2. Best move ever..... |
@galleybob you could look for a local Lumin dealer and ask if you could bring your Node 2i over to compare, or to borrow a T2 to try at home. I'm pretty confident you will find the T2 sounds significantly better than the Node 2i. And the T2 is a huge improvement over the D2. |
@ cat_doormanTake a look at Cocktail Audio. They have from good basic to units that allow two drives (3.5” or 2.5”) that can be arranged as RAID-0 or RAID-1. And it can be a server for such storage. The one I looked at had CD Ripping also. I picked up the basic N25, but the X45D looks cool. A kids display with HDMI out for external monitor/AVR input. A loaded remote control is included. Simple access to shares in the LAN. While I have a hefty NAS, the 45 can also store a ton-o-music. I found a few wrinkles at setup, but once last them, it’s easy to use and sounds good. |
once again, op
you replace the node with the lumin, sound will improve... i think you will get some additional treble and midband energy, better detail, and more openness in the sound, as the node through its dac rca outputs sounds dark, slow, a little slurred, and closed in
for a ht setup, there is not very real stereo imaging anyways but you should still hear a tilt in the frequency balance and some more openess as per the above
whether this is worth 2x 5x or 10x in cost to you relative to the node, only you can decide
i will tell you in standard 2 channel applications so many people use the node 2i as a streamer and they take its digital output and feed it into a nice sounding outboard dac like a denafrips, mhdt, chord, metrum, audio mirror, holo etc etc ... and for about $2 grand total they have a streaming from end that equals one box units from lumin, auralic, mytek that cost 2-3-4x more... of course they have will have 2 boxes and some cabling in between... |
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I replaced my Node2 first with a Bryston BDP3, then with a Melco N100. Both were huge improvements over the Node2. Otoh, if your Node2 sounds like an ATV to you, perhaps the rest of your system can’t resolve, or your hearing is shot. Or maybe it’s a Qobuz thing… |
Smoke em if you got em. Personally, the Node 2i works for me. I like the interface and ease of selecting music. With my high hearing loss, I doubt I could tell the difference with a $50K streamer. BUT...if anyone has one lying around and would like me to test - - just PM me and I'll make sure it gets back to you someday.
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@elsfan
Thanks. It's not clear to me, as @jjss49 pointed out, whether a power supply upgrade helps very much is one is *already* bypassing the Node's DAC. Indeed, I would bet it is not worth it. |
@Mahler123 I should do an A/B test of Apple Music 24/44 vs Bluesound Node 2i while listening to Qobuz 24/192 with my teenage daughter. It could be a hearing issue but I doubt it. My system now is outstanding, it will be even better when I do the upgrades on my equipment |
At Deer Creek Audio, we think a lot about the importance of simplifying the digital transmission path. In this case of evaluating streamers, we recommend a solution that includes Dirac LIve room correction. This really simplifies the layout and optimizes the path to your final digital to analog conversion. The miniDSP SHD series combines the Volumio streaming application and Dirac Live in a high definition DSP and DAC platform. Adding Dirac to the mix is a game changer because of the way Dirac improves not only the system and room frequency response but also the time domain impulse response. The result is superior definition that rivals the sound you would have experienced in the recording studio. Dirac, when combined with a high definition streamer, may likely be the biggest improvement you’ll experience in your journey as an audiophile. Here are a couple of independent reviews, one on the miniDSP SHD series in Audio Science Review, and another on Dirac Live from Stereophile. |
$4200 for a streamer! To heck with that. $4200 would by a hot turntable/tonearm combo. You’ve got your priorities mixed up. Turn to vinyl for real music. IMHO. |
This biggest improvement in my opinion is getting a QUALITY DAC the DAC in the Node and Node 2i are fine for well lo-fi listening.
The new Node (no longer called 2i) has a better DAC that the 2i but it is still lacking.
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I use a Mytek brooklyn bridge(version 1) and love it. It is a roon endpoint and sound is great. I believe they just released the second edition which is still under your budget($3500) or you could find a version 1 used possibly for less. Nice thing here is, it is a streamer and a great dac so you can run the bluesound through the dac and do some a/b comparing with the internal streamer of the mytek and use the winner? I have compared to streaming through usb (through the Mytek)and the mytek streamer via roon always wins(ethernet)
I bought an astron rm-12 power supply for mine and it really helped the sound.
Highly recommended. |
@Coltrane1 I see your point but I'm not getting a turntable. Never |
@coltrane1 Not sure if you stream but there is nothing like having unlimited access to music at my fingertips with my iPad as the controller. Just can't beat being able to choose not just any album but play any song in any order
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@deer_creek_audio My dealer suggested this but I said I was not interested Ashly 3.6SP Protea DSP Loudspeaker System Processor Is something like this what you are talking about? thanks |
@earlflynn I don't use the DAC in my Bluesound, I use the DAC in my Anthem 1120. It is better than the Bluesound but I knowI can do better |
@coltrane1 You’ve got your priorities mixed up. Turn to vinyl for real music. IMHO.
It's advice like this that makes people run from the internet, screaming. And "IMHO" -- LOL. Not humble at all. |
OP, I have a Node 2 and a similar receiver, the Anthem 720 playing 5.1 for HT. I also use the receiver's dac only because I was forced to do so as I didn't want to use the Node's dac and have the Anthem still convert through it's circuitry when using the Anthem Room Correction. You sort of have to use one or the other to get the best case. I don't know if you'll be using the Room Correction of your Anthem 1120 but for me, I am and that is a big reason I am not upgrading for something like a T2 or similar piece and just keep using the Anthem's dac.
I was tempted to just get something like the T2 and just see how it sounds even though the Anthem will still mess with the T2's sound while it corrects for the room, but I'm still not convinced that's the best idea.
Good luck |
@cissado I appreciate your comment. I will be using ARC not sure how that will affect the T2. I will look into it. Thanks |
I use Auralic G1> Chord Mscaler > Chord Hugo TT2. All Audience AU24-SX cables. Probably my last digital up grade will be Auralic G2.1 |
@cissado and @galleybob one option to explore would be to use Roon and DSP filters with the Lumin T2, as an alternative to Anthem Room Correction.
My understanding of ARC, based on Anthem's online documentation, is that you would be able to replicate the functionality using one or more of Roon's PEQ, Convolution, and Speaker filters. However you would need to perform the measurements and calculate the desired filter parameters yourself using something like Room EQ Wizard and a measurement microphone. |
@axeis1
scaler ---> tt2 is outstanding! 👌👌👌 |
@jjss49 - looking at your profile, I’m assuming you use the Morpheus for your primary dac. Just curious, is that night and day better than the dac in the hegel h160? Does the h160 have the most recent of hegel’s dac’s, do you know? Thanks. |
Only one choice withinn your budget. The dCS network bridge.
Software clunky compared to Bluesound, but SQ heavenly. Depth, detail, presence, musicality. It is currently a legacy product as the manufacturer's stated objective with the NB was to create an upgrade path to current spec for all its other legacy products, which I believe is done now.
Because legacy, you may be able to source at a discount. |
@jjss49 - looking at your profile, I’m assuming you use the Morpheus for your primary dac. Just curious, is that night and day better than the dac in the hegel h160? Does the h160 have the most recent of hegel’s dac’s, do you know?
hegel’s h160 is 1.5, almost 2 generations old now (2015 roll-out)... current h190 improves mostly on the quality of the dac... even then, a top outboard dac in the $1500-2000 range will handily outperform the hegel h190 onboard dac if heard on a good system -- i often recommend the h160 to those looking for truly outstanding amplification at reasonable cost, but also suggest they don’t use the internal dac for serious listening as for my own use of dacs, yes i use the morpheus more than most others (and the metrum jade before it) - it to me is middle of the road tonally, highly transparent, very pure timbre, suitably full bodied and rich sounding - it also has an excellent integral remote volume control, so i can go direct into power amps when i am carefully evaluating those (seems i do that a lot these days...) if we treat the morpheus as the baseline, and at the midpoint of tonality (other dacs in this group include the ayre codex, jolida fx tube, auris d1d), from there, i can go to other dacs either for more air/more treble energy/more incisiveness (chord scaler/qutest/tt2, mf trivista, ps audio d-link...) or for more solidity/warmth/fullness of tone (audio mirror, mhdt, ava fet topp... ) |
Stop chasing ghosts. I went from a Lumin T2 to a node 2i, just for a comparison. I found ZERO difference. I saved myself a lot of money by selling the Lumin. I’ve been down the rabbit hole and back and 99% of the time I was hearing from my wallet and not from my ears. |
Thanks @jjss49 - very helpful! |
I haven't read the entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been brought up. You said this is for your home theater system. If you're running your streamer through a home theater processor, it might not be up to the level of a better streamer. Streamers don't all sound the same, unless you're playing it through a system that can't resolve the differences.
I have heard the T2 at a dealer and thought it sounded excellent. My personal journey involved starting out with the Node 2, then adding a couple of different DACs, and then finally replacing the Node 2 / DAC combination with a TEAC NT-505. I'm pretty happy with that. I believe it's been discontinued, so they can be found at a significant discount from their original price. |
@big_greg Yes it is for my home theater system which I am upgrading. Yes I run my Node 2i through my Anthem 1120 with the optical cable that the Node 2i provides |
Consider spending your money elsewhere. A two channel preamp with home theater bypass for example. |
Honestly, what you need is a better DAC at this point, not a new streamer. Get yourself a Denafrips Ares II for around $700 and then evaluate the streamer question. |
+2 for big_greg's and other's suggestion re a preamp with ht bypass. This is also what I'm looking at after steering away from the Lumin T2s... dedicated option. Something like the Anthem str preamp has the ht bypass and a relative good dac and most importantly for the op (and me), it will still do ARC room correction. It will also calibrate 2 subwoofers independently, which is what I have as well as the op.
Personally, I was waiting for a newer version of the Anthem str before I pulled the trigger or something else that has its functionality but is a notch or two better. But for the op, he really needs to decide if the lumin t2's dac is similar in sound performance to the dac in the Anthem str in this case.
I also looked into the mini dsp HD that was mentioned above. That seemed to do what the op is looking for.
Also, Roon with the convolution files for room correction would work, but unsure of how many boxes that would need. With someone already having a ht system, I am personally trying to keep box count down.
The main point fir the above is if you're keeping room correction, you can't just add a dac.
Good luck. |
I used a Nativ Vita with Roon to a McIntosh C40 and an NAD amp. Loved it - sold the McIntosh and NAD and bought NAD M33 w/ BluOS - - love it more - claims to be Roon ready but I haven’t been able to do that. But integrated BluOS in the NAD along with Quobuz and Tidal are seamless and excellent sound quality. I am proud owner user of often bashed but excellent and inexpensive Tekton speakers which certainly add to the sound quality of my system.
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