Antipodes K22 vs Innuos Pulsar

My vote is INNUOS. 

@robal - I have not had the opportunity to hear Aurender. I do own the Innuos Zenith MKiii and have been very impressed with the product. Sound quality is fantastic, the user interface is intuitive, their support is top notch, and Innuos is always making updates to their software. I strongly recommend Innuos for all of the above reasons. Top notch company. 

The only streamer, from what I’ve read, outside of the uber expensive ones (Taiko, etc.) that *might* sound better is the Grimm MU1. Lots of people seem to rave over that streamer. Someday I’d like to hear it myself to compare.

I have had both here along with the Grimm.  I was a dealer for both but never really sold any Innuos and we parted ways at the end of last year.  I remain an Antipodes dealer.

Both are excellent devices.  It really depends on a couple things.

1. What software do you want to use?  If you like Roon, this is not close.  The K22 is the superior device.  If you are not a Roon user or actively don't want Roon, then also, this is not close.  The Pulsar is the better device.  Sense is excellent

2. Outputs matter and you are running a Bricasti device.  If you have the network card in the Bricasti, I would argue a K41 running Roon or Audirvana would be top performer as ethernet in is best with Bricasti.  I don't know if the Pulsar has finally added the additional outputs beyond USB, but AES is next best input on Bricasti.  This is Antipodes best output. USB is not best input on Bricasti.

The Grimm is nice but I found did not outperform the Antipodes running Roon side by side.  They seemed VERY similar.  Antipodes has a slightly softer sound than Grimm but that was only noticeable difference to me.  That said, I have heard that Grimm is at its very best with HQ Player enabled in Roon.  I did not test this and have no POV on that.  

@verdantaudio I'm going to dig a little into this and hope you could fill in a few gaps. I would love to compare many of these permutations and wish I lived closer to your location. Appreciate your posting here as always! - I would state 10% of the reason I got a Weiss 501 was based on some of your listening comments. 

1. What software do you want to use?  If you like Roon, this is not close.  The K22 is the superior device.  If you are not a Roon user or actively don't want Roon, then also, this is not close.  The Pulsar is the better device.  Sense is excellent

For my current system configuration with my K50, and most on Antipodes forum concur, that squeeze is the most sonically superior software option for well-recorded material. I do have some "brighter and thinner" tracks I prefer via Roon, and I confess I still listen to Roon 90% of the time due to the their far superior UI. You didn't mention squeeze, or Jplay, just wanted to confirm you have listened with other softwares; I have not heard sense or any Innous so I cannot comment, but I feel if someone were comparing "best to best" squeeze should be employed on the Antipodes.

2. Outputs matter and you are running a Bricasti device.  If you have the network card in the Bricasti, I would argue a K41 running Roon or Audirvana would be top performer as ethernet in is best with Bricasti. 

I have heard the Bricasti player/renderer is very good. I recently read of one Bricasti user with a K22 who demoed the addition of a K41, and the short is he is keeping the K41. 

Curious if you could give some comparisons of a K41 into a Bricasti using its player vs. K41 into K22 player > Bricasti?

The Grimm is nice but I found did not outperform the Antipodes running Roon side by side.  They seemed VERY similar.  Antipodes has a slightly softer sound than Grimm but that was only noticeable difference to me.  That said, I have heard that Grimm is at its very best with HQ Player enabled in Roon.  I did not test this and have no POV on that.  

Was this Grimm MU1 vs. K50? (or both K41/K22 which is the same as K50) or one half of a K50? 

Which converter was used? 

Can the I2S output on RJ45 ethernet from the K22 be connected to the RJ45 ethernet input of the Bricasti?  I know the Bricasti uses an I2S internal connection.

I've owned the Innuos Zenith Mk 3 and currently own an Antipodes K50 G4, so I definitely agree with verdantaudio comments on player software of choice. The Innuos Sense software is fantastic, I actually like the search capabilities much better than Roon. The other point to consider is that the Pulsar does not have internal storage whereas the K22 can have up to an 8TB internal SSD that's easily user installable. From my personal experience, music stored locally on my Zenith sounded better than either streamed music or files stored on a NAS. I would same the same applies for my K50. 

mclinnguy - I run my K50 using the playback method of Squeeze with Roon Server. This seems to give the best overall UI and sound (to my ears). 

Finally, a couple years ago I had a Bricasti M1 SE DAC with the network card, and  it sounded really good when connected via network to my Innuos. 

I agree that on the K50, squeeze is best sound but most people still control it with Roon.  You can turn on squeeze lite on player size and still use Roon remote.

sense is a squeeze derivative and is a thinner package than Roon in terms of how much system resource it takes up.  That is theoretically why it sounds better but someone with more technical knowledge may be able to explain better.

The Bricasti player is best way to connect and I had to get a K50 to beat it.  Short of a k50 or Oladra, k41 into the renderer will be top performer.  
 

I had Grimm vs k22.  I don’t get Grimm vs k50 compare.  Thought it was quite a bit better.  Maybe vs old gen 3 but not gen 4.  I had playback DACs I demo’d that Grimm with.

@jayrossi13

I would have posted earlier, but it took me quite a while to browse through all the fantastic gear you have/had in your systems. Very nice!

The Innuos Sense software is fantastic, I actually like the search capabilities much better than Roon.

Wow, it would be hard to give that up going from Innuos to a competitor.

 

The other point to consider is that the Pulsar does not have internal storage whereas the K22 can have up to an 8TB internal SSD that’s easily user installable. From my personal experience, music stored locally on my Zenith sounded better than either streamed music or files stored on a NAS. I would same the same applies for my K50.

That could be valuable information for some.

You probably have read that Samsung PM893 is the best sounding SSD to get, and is the one recommended by Antipodes. I cheaped out and got a EVO 870 (I think) as I typically stream only. I have some files on the SSD but again I haven’t noticed any difference between the two.

mclinnguy - I run my K50 using the playback method of Squeeze with Roon Server. This seems to give the best overall UI and sound (to my ears).

I didn’t notice any differences worth noting using Roon/Squeeze vs. Roon/Roon, Actually I recall at one time comparing I actually liked the latter better, at least with the particular track that I compared them with, so I have stuck with Roon/Roon since. More recently after playing around with Roon/HQplayer using HQplayer trial I see no point paying for HQplayer, but I did not try every filter, just a few reported to be the best from others.

I find Squeeze/squeeze much more noticeable a change compared to any of the above permutations. If a find a track where the bass seems to be too prevalent/boomy/robust/ or in general lacking in definition is when I will switch to Squeeze/squeeze from Roon, and then typically finish the listening session with squeeze, but many times grow impatient with the UI and revert back.

As we know the goalposts are always moving with Roon updates and our proprietary squeeze software and getting updates. At least with cables one has the option to go backwards, not so with software updates so we are under the impression someone "improved" it! Roon just updated last night from build 1496 to build 1510- is it any different? Don’t know yet. Maybe I will try all the combinations again when I have the patience and see if there are any changes to be had. Been more keen of late to play around with different tubes in the pre and amps instead, which make much more differences, as one would expect.

Looking forward to Audirvana later this year! (fingers crossed) Yet another option for us Antipodes owners.

@verdantaudio

I had playback DACs I demo’d that Grimm with.

You carry Playback Designs also? Man, I see a big road trip in my future.