Amp recommendations for Joseph Audio Perspectives2

Hi, they ought to sound terrific. I had JSE Infinite Slope Model 2's, that crossover is a key element to their accuracy.

I don't see an efficiency specification on the web site, that would influence how much power you need.

Did they give you an efficiency/sensitivity db/1m/1w?

How much power do you need?
LTA  ZOTL40?

@elliottbnewcombjr I don't have official number for the sensitivity but I got it from the discussions that is would be around 84db to 86db 2.83v/m. 

David Joseph recommend the power to be > 60wpc. 

Btw, I heard the speakers paired with a Wells Audio innomorata ss amp and it is amazing.

I would throw in options of SS that I am interested (which I read or heard that sounds close to tube amp):

Wells Audio Innomorata (no used listings shown right now)
Luxman m900u

@twoleftears  I think one of the designers told me it is recommended to have > 60wpc. Thanks for the suggestion. The LTA ZOTL40 looks compact!

I used Wells Audio Innamorata II with my Perspective 2. They sound glorious. The amp doesn't get too warm and looks beautiful.

There is a pair of PL's monos on ebay up for bid, start at $1600, can't go wrong there,,,but you will needa  good pre.
ck out my Lite LS9 Chinese all tube pre up for sale.

oh I see you havea CJ, My Lite will shoot out the CJ in a milli second, 1st few notes, CJ is colored, Mine is not
If you go to my YT channel you can hear it in action and that is with 1 blown tweeter!!!

Budget?

@soix budget is $7k for used amp. thanks.

@radiohead99  Cool Thanks. Do you know what is the difference between Innamorata II and Innamorata Level II? It is hard to tell from the web page's info. 

If you really loved the sound with the Innamorata and have a budget of $7k, why are you messing around?  Just buy a new Innamorata ll and enjoy life with your awesome new speakers?  Wells amps just don’t come up for sale often, so buying one used may not be an option at least in the near term. If I were to suggest a workaround, I’d say a modified McCormack DNA 0.5 or DNA 1 would probably be a very good substitute, and they do come up from time to time. 

It sounds like you’ve found what you really like with CJ preamps, so I’d go with a good, neutral SS amp that gets out of he way and lets all that tube goodness through while also giving the JAs plenty of power to fully sing.  Best of luck. 

@soix  thanks for the suggestions! McCormack DNA 0.5/1 seems interesting. It was one of those amps I am always interested but never got a chance to try out. 

You are right I really like the sound of CJ pre. But I am also curious about tube amp paired with a tube pre. Like I have been long wanted to hear the 300B mids. I probably would get a VAC pre if I get the VAC 70/70. Anyway, it is just me always wanting to try something new. 

Thanks!

@mozartfan Thanks for your inputs! However I found the color in mids is a good thing for my taste. I have previous owned many transparent pre (autoformer based, LDR based, e.g. "The Truth", ss pre) and they does not excite me the way a colored cj pre does (pv10 and pv5). Somehow the mids and 3d of the cj pre gives me the nod in every side by side comparisons of those other more neural preamps.

McIntosh, 75 wpc

https://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-MC275-Stereo-Tube-Power-Amplifier-MINT-CONDITION-Play-Beautifully/274449453984?hash=item3fe67653a0:g:z-YAAOSwN41fKa16

CJ, says 160wpc (verify wpc), recent overhaul

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Conrad-Johnson-Premier-1b-tube-amplifier/303247243931?hash=item469af1ba9b:g:mqYAAOSwokxdSzPT

Have  you looked at the Line Magnetic models?

@elliottbnewcombjr Thanks for the great suggestions. I heard the mc275 with a B&W bookshelf in an audio shop years ago and it was truly impressive. I have to admit that the mc275 was the tube amp that got me into the tube gear realm. 

BTW the CJ 1b looks massive!

For a tube amp, and given what you’re looking for, I’d absolutely give Don Sachs Custom KT88 amp a try.  He offers a trial period, which is obviously so helpful, and at $3700 new you’re thousands under your max budget.  FWIW. 

@twoleftears  Yes I looked into some of the models but seems that they are more about integrated tube amps? I did not think of using integrated before, but the Line Magnetic do look interesting. The 508IA has 45w per channel, I am wondering if it will be enough to drive the JA speakers.

CJ says 200wpc, 135 lbs, 1b is the latest version

https://conradjohnson.com/vintage-conrad-johnson-products/

but owners manual says 150 wpc

https://conradjohnson.com/owners-manuals/prem1bman.pdf

in any case, more than enough power for those speakers, and more for future speakers

personally, I would go with the McIntosh, 75 wpc also enough for those speakers

@elliottbnewcombjr Thanks for the info. I just grabbed a VAC renaissance mk5 tube pre from ebay at what I believed a good price. Now I am leaning between the mc275 and VAC 70/70. They are relatively similar in power. Do you know how different would this two sound?

I know you said you prefer a stereo amp but man these Air Tight ATM-3 mono’s would drive your Pulsar’s to perfection and used they are right at your $7K budget mark. No connection to seller just a former Air Tight owner, ATM-1 a long time ago great amp.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa2db2-air-tight-atm-3-mono-tube-power-amplifier-pair-atm3-25418...

Unless you wanted an integrated the Line Magnetics are not what you are after as a power amp , the preamp section of the LM integrateds are not taken out of the circuit when you use a separate preamp. I have a LM 518IA so I know firsthand

@jond  Wow these Air Tight amps are beautiful! Yeah unfortunately I don't have space for the huge monoblocks. It is more of a wife approval thing. One day,... if I got a spacier house.

tiger I hear you I live in a small condo myself. Good luck on your search and congrats on your new speakers!

SS amp with tube pre is the surest way to drive under 90db bookshelves with the proper balance for all musical genres.

IMHO.

@kairosman Thanks! The perspectives are floorstanding though. But under 90db.

I would add to the suggestion that McCormack be a consideration. I do not know the current requirements/load presented by the Joseph Audio Perspectives, but the DNA 1 with mods that include the Plitron transformer, will correctly drive almost any load that it sees. In my experience, the SMc modifications place these amps in the top class of SS products that are "reasonably" priced. They play well with tube preamps so long as you match the impedances. Steve McCormack may be able to assist with that if you are not sure. Mine are ARC Ref 3 balanced to SMc DNA 1 Ultra Platinum driving Thiel 3.6s (tough load). Further, perhaps Jeff Joseph can offer guidance if you give him a call. Finally, set up and positioning of high slope 1st order crossover speakers is fussy. Take your time and enjoy the music. Your system should be really, really good!

@yabe1951 Thanks for the detailed info. I hope I can see a stereo DNA 1 in the market. I can only find mono blocks version now. Are the Plitron transformer update also applicable to the stereo version? 

Right now I don't have specific knowledge about positioning. Are there any resources I can referring to? Thanks!

Also anyone has a suggestion where should I put a VAC 70/70 tube amp? It is 18.25 x 18.25 x 8.75inch. Currently I plan to put it under my lifted av/stand. It is 100lb heavy, anyone has a suggestion of equipment rack/stand I can put this thing one or under? 

For the amp stand, check out Symposium Acoustics; Ultra Platform, Pro Ampstand.  Those amp stands can handle a nearly unlimited amount of weight.  And when combined with Rollerblock or Rollerblock Jr+ it becomes an excellent mechanical ground system for amp vibration drainage.  Truly a state-of-the-art amp stand, and though not inexpensive, at much less cost than some of the other highly effective amp stands available.  I hope this helps you.

https://www.symposiumusa.com/ultra.html

@mammothguy54 thanks! will check them out!

I was looking at the rack in this listing https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa4309-vac-valve-amplification-company-renaissance-70-70-mk-ii-tube and it looks great to me. Any one know what model is it? Thanks.

I would look into Pass Labs class A amps (XA30.5 or even better XA60.5). They sound magical with Josephs

I have not heard those specific models.

In addition to performance,

I buy things I like/love every time I see/touch them, power on or off. That puts my brain in a more receptive state for their superior performance.

That Vintage MC275 is a beauty, I much prefer it to the CJ. I would not want that beauty down out of sight if I could arrange it.

I tore my Meniscus pulling my McIntosh SS Amp, MC2250 80 lbs, out of a low shelf, a pair of compact mono's have an ease of movement advantage. Location: think about how two people could put heavy piece in place together.

@elliottbnewcombjr Thanks for the advice! Years ago I used to have the 135lb Krell 402e amp on a cabinet. I eventually installed wheels on the supporting cabinet after my back starts to hurt when moving the amp.

So I just ordered some wheels for the salamander cabinet and racks, just to save me some back pain.

I agree the appearance of equipments plays an important part! You just can’t take your eyes off certain gems.

Is 75 wpc enough for those speakers? I agree, talk to Jeff.

I had the Infinite Slope Crossover, I don’t understand how it would make any difference to placement. They were the most measurably accurate speakers I’ve ever owned, enjoyed them for many years, driven by 300wpc SS (they didn't need that much, it was a phase I went thru, 35 wpc tubes drove them well also)

I missed and now prefer my horns and 15" woofers, and back to tubes, JSE’s at my son’s house.

They were heavy, came on wheels, rolled forward and away from the corners, toed in.

I have my preferred location(s). I often talk about how a very small adjustment to balance can make a surprising difference.

Last night, playing Norah Jones, 2lp set, 2nd lp recorded live, after a while, I adjusted my toe in outwards some, it made a very nice difference. Last week, imaging was un-naturally weide, I toed them in some, bingo.

I’m a big fan of heavy speakers on wheels, pushed back when space needed for large family gatherings; pulled out the pre-determinned distance from rear and side walls for listening, and situational toe-in.

I use 3 wheels, (two front and 1 rear) so the weight per wheel is increased, and no wobble/vibration issues anywhere I move them. They can tip during movement, so I put two blocks on the back corners, just above the floor surface normally, but if they start to tip, the block stops any tilting movement. Not as important with my current monsters, more important with the taller JSI Infinite Slope Model 2’s, they came with 4 wheels, I changed to 3 and rear corner blocks.

@elliottbnewcombjr Thanks for sharing. Do you know if there are wheels options for the JA perspectives? I have isoacoustics GAIA feet to put them on my floors but it would be nice to have wheels installed. 

I ordered a VAC renaissance 70/70 mk3 to match the vac renaissance mk5 pre for the perspectives2. Will see how it goes.  

I see you are getting a matching Vac amp which will work very nice.  I know it's too late but I was going to suggest a new or used Quicksilver amp.  I owned the silver 70 amp and it's magical.

I own the DNA-1 Platinum Ultra amplifier and would recommend contacting McCormack and see if they have one around that isn't upgraded.  I went that route then had it upgraded twice over time.  Easy enough if you are local to SoCal (however, not sure about current situation on pickup/delivery).  One thing to note, it has an extremely high gain and should be carefully matched with a preamp.  I'm actually in the process of auditioning a passive device that has an adjustable active gain and see how that works in my setup.

these speakers around 80 lbs each. IMO they are heavy enough for stability on wheels.

lift one of these 80 lb bags of concrete mix at home depot,

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-80-lb-Concrete-Mix-110180/100318511

....................................

3 wheels for speakers. no wobble and more weight/wheel than 4.
80lb speaker: 26 lbs/3 wheels rather than 20 lbs/4 wheels

anti-tilt rear corner blocks (slightly shorter than the wheel height) do not touch floor when stationary, but contact floor if speaker starts to tilt during movement.

softer wheels for hard floors; harder wheels for carpet

2 front corner wheels, stable left to right
1 rear center wheel, unstable in rear when moving
2 anti-tilt corner blocks in rear
.......................................

quickie finds, just to illustrate ideas

wood finish, 14 x 14

simply relocate a rear wheel and add two rear anti-tilt corner blocks

https://www.wayfair.com/outdoor/pdp/innova-hearth-and-home-square-caddy-innv1246.html

perhaps try these, see if you actually benefit from adjusting toe-in. If not, remove them.

listen on spikes; listen on 3 wheels, any difference? I seriously doubt it.

.........................................

furniture dolly, 11.5 x 22.5 

cut to size, make finished wood cover to conceal it

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Stalwart-440-lbs-Wheeled-Furniture-Dolly-M550109/302662176

cut to size, reattach wheels, add two anti-tip blocks, then have local woodworker make a cover that simply drops over it, finished wood, laminate, paint, ....

..........................................

IF, after preferred placement is found, only adjusting toe-in, never pushing them rearwards, you might think about leaving the factory spikes, put them on a properly sized base plate that can be rotated.

....................................

btw, 4 wheels can certainly work, you get a bit less weight per wheel, might not matter, and you simply need to solve any wobble that might occur, not hard, but I have bad back and knees, so I go for 3 wheels. You want the drivers to move, not the speaker, so 3 wheels is definitely preferred.

I found that I am normally listen to the perspectives in mid to low volume. My preamp is VAC renaissance v tube pre. 

Still looking for amp suggestions. Any low power class A amps around 30wpc? 

@yuhengdu_tiger You just bought the VAC 70/70 are you already unhappy with it?

@jond  The sound is very good actually. I was thinking maybe I don't need that much power since I normally my preamp never gods beyond a quarter of the volume pot. 

Then I can save some space and reduce some heat..  

I have kids running around and I just realized how hot it can get after getting to use it.