Alpha Core Goertz

ozzy

are you considering adding this brand of Cabling to your system?

Happy Listening!

jafant,

Yeah, I was thinking (actually, I just bought a used pair on Audiogon) of adding a set of the Goertz MI-3 Divinity to the Bass section of my speakers. They are supposed to be 7 gauge.

ozzy

@ozzy 

I believe The Cable Company sells the zobel networks.  I am not sure they will sell them separate from a cable purchase or not.

This thread does not match my experience.  I ordered a set of Zobels from them a year or two ago and it was no problem at all.

ketchup and jetter,

Yes, I was able to order the Zobel’s from Goertz-Bridgeport Magnetics for $15+ $20 shipping. I should have them soon.

It’s just that no one that works there knows if they are bare wire, spades etc. I guess I’ll find out. And/or if they go at the amp or speaker end. How can they all be so clueless? Not to mention not very good at speaking English, it was definitely a challenge to place an order.

ozzy

Can anyone comment as to the bass quality with these cables?

ozzy

@ozzy 

They are about 4 inches long and the connection points are bare wire.  From my own use and reading they are usually used at the speaker end and one network is placed between the positive (+) and negative (-) ends of your terminals.

As you know, they are used to prevent amps from oscillation.  It is my understanding that only a few amp designs are susceptible to oscillation due to the cables.  But so easy to use I always used them.

Thank you jetter! That info helps alot.

So, if I will be using the Goertz cables just on the woofer end of my speakers bi-wire connections, I should still use the Zobel’s?

ozzy

If I was to give my OPINION, I would place them between the + and - of the speaker’s woofer connections.  I have read and in my experience the zobel networks have no impact on sound.

Out of an abundance of caution for your beautiful system it would be great if Ralph @atmasphere would chime in.

The issue here is that the Goertz cables have high capacitance. If connected to an amplifier with a poorly designed feedback loop, the result can be an oscillation that can damage the amp (and probably a tweeter) in very short order. This was a much bigger problem in the 1970s and early 80s. But just because an amp was made in the 21st century does not guarantee its immunity; its best to check with the amp manufacturer to be sure there isn't a problem. The ZOBEL network may or may not help (but won't harm) depending on the amplifier's design.

Thank you for the help.

I just received the Zobel’s and I must say I am way underwhelmed. They look like 2 toothpicks! I wonder how long the little thin bare wire will last?

I put them in some stackable spades, hopefully, to minimize wear.

The actual used Goertz cables are to arrive tomorrow.

ozzy

I just received the Goertz Ml 3 Divinity cables. I connected it up with the Zobel’s and then without. They are installed only the bass side of a bi-wire speaker connection.

With the Zobel’s the bass seemed not quite as articulate, and the midrange seemed more pronounced. When I removed the Zobel’s just the opposite occurred.

Thus far the amps (Michi 8) do not seem to be having any issues sans the Zobel’s.

Is it possible the Goertz cables already have the Zobel’s installed internally, and I just may be adding a second set? If so, is it something I could visibly tell? There may be a bump underneath the jacketing, it is very hard to tell. The Zobel’s that I purchased separately are very miniscule.

I have emailed the seller and am waiting his reply.

Can someone with these cables chime in?

ozzy

Is it possible the Goertz cables already have the Zobel’s installed internally, and I just may be adding a second set?

No. But its very possible that a ZOBEL network is inside your amp!

Really? I never thought of that.

ozzy

@ozzy - I have MI 3s and don’t think they have Zobels built in. I don’t think it’s even an option, but maybe the previous owner of yours had them custom made. Who knows.

I tried Zobels on the bass side of my bi-amped system and noticed no difference at all, so I removed them.

ketchup,

Thank you, some very good info. I don't think I will use the Zobel's.

ozzy

I thought the Zobels were for 10 foot or greater lengths and used with certain tube amplification?.

That’s what I originally thought, then I read about different opinions about whether to use them or not. First off, after now actually trying them, I don’t think they are as transparent as they claim.

And, their usage, I think, depends on the Amp design and perhaps the age when it was built. I don’t think todays modern amps will find the Zobel’s necessary.

For the relatively inexpensive cost it was good insurance to get them anyway.

ozzy

@ozzy how are you liking the Goertz Ml 3 Divinity cables. They worth a $250 investment?? 

A little too early to decide. I am comparing them to the bi-wire Clarus Crimson cables. The Clarus has a very open sound stage but perhaps lacks in the deep bass. At this time, I am actually using both. The Goertz on the bottom end and the Clarus over both hi-and low speaker binding posts, since they are bi-wire.

Sorta like mixing the cables to accomplish what perhaps one version does not.

I should add that my amp specs (Michi 8 1800 WPC @4 ohms.) call for larger gauge than standard speaker cables due to its design.

"Speaker Wire Selection"

"The size and quality of the wire can have an audible effect on the performance of the system. Standard speaker wire will work, but can result in lower output or diminished bass response, particularly over longer distances. In general, heavier wire will improve the sound."

ozzy

I thought the Zobels were for 10 foot or greater lengths and used with certain tube amplification?.

@jacobsdad2000 Probably not. Tube amps are not likely to go into oscillation and blow up as spectacularly as we used to see with solid state amps made in the 1970s and 80s sans ZOBEL networks, when subjected to a highly capacitive speaker cable. That lesson was not ignored so many solid state designs have them built in (and the more competent ones from the 70s and 80s did too).

But high end audio can sometimes be a bit of the Wild West and the design school of By Gosh and By Golly, so if you have a solid state amp from a smaller manufacturer its at least worth a phone call to see if the ZOBEL network might save a trip back to the manufacturer for repairs.

As I’ve posted before; there’s no sound reason not to use RC networks (zobels) with the Goertz Alpha-Core speaker cables.

My experience was that the Zobel's did affect the sound quality. Perhaps it is because of my amps design.

ozzy

So, if one length (7foot) of Goertz Ml-3 Divinity cable is good would a second set (7 foot) be ok to use as a bi-wire cable?

I am a concerned not only about sound quality but now the amp will be seeing 14 feet of this hi-capacitance cable.

ozzy

Curious, anyone tried these cables with McIntosh ss amps without the zobel networks?  In my experience the zobel networks are extremely brittle and break when tightening down spades.  They are also a major headache to use on thiels since the binding posts are on the bottom of the speaker.   

Not sure about the Mac equipment but I agree about the usage of the Zobel’s. The set I received are very short, which makes them difficult to install.

I am not using them with my SS equipment but if I add a second set for bi-wiring I wonder?

ozzy

@pops Thiels are a pain (I had a pair once).  I would attach the Zobels to the amp end if using Thiels.

@ozzy I soldered ring terminals to my Zobels to make attaching them a breeze.  You could also use spades.  Easy peasy.  These don't have to be expensive audiophile spades.

I am under the impression that Zobels are required with some amps to prevent them from oscillating and overheating.  I installed my Zobels and played the system all day, periodically measuring the amplifier's heatsink temperatures and recording the results.  I then removed the Zobels and did the same thing.  There was no difference in temps, so I concluded that they were not necessary for my particular amplifier. 

@ketchup I don't believe you need zobel networks with Macs on second thought due primarily to the autoformers.  I installed MI2's on my 501's and they sound great with no problems.

They did send my old Classe amp into oscillation back in the day requiring me to use the RC links which solved the problem.  

And you are correct -  connecting theils especially big ones are a major PITA.

Well after experiencing the Goertz MI-3 Divinity cables, I decided to go Goertz bi-wire.

I just placed my 7 footers up for sale on the gon.

ozzy

Question on the use of the Zobel's.

If I use 2 separate Goertz MI-3 Divinity speaker cables, Should I add the Zobel's at each cable end or will one for both cables be sufficient?

ozzy

I just received my Goertz MI-3 Divinity bi-wire cables, and I must say they are way better than I thought they would be. I have now compared them to much pricier cables and they exceed or hold their own.

I also am not using the Zobel's, and everything is working fine.

ozzy