All-in-one integrated, 10-15K range, class A/B only
Just want to add my vote for the Krell 300i - but I passed on their internal DAC. I teamed mine up with a LUMIN T2 ( streamer and DAC). I get plenty of power to push Maggie 1.7is to amazing levels of sound. I also like the option of upgrading one or the other in the future as technology continues to progress. I have been using Krell integrateds for 20 years - they are great build quality and they are great if you need service. Happy Listening! |
Maybe the Soulution 300 series integrated? Be careful of 8 ohm ratings—if you don’t have your speaker picked out, you may want an integrated with an amplifier section that doubles into 4 ohms. One of the highly regarded units mentioned above sounds great into 8 ohms but supposedly falls apart into speakers that dip much below 4 ohms. |
As a general input, there are usually a significant jump in performance and build quality when taking the step from $5-10.000 to $10-15.000 (or more). You DO usually get what you’re paying for, at least on this level before moving into the luxury segment where many other factors comes into play. Hegel as one example is strong within the mid-segment but does not compare with a higher end amp within the higher price ranges imo. / Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se |
"I for one am a fan of the 866 design, especially the tilted front portion that makes the touchscreen actually usable not just a gimmicky nice to have. in some ways it’s design is why it’s also number one in my list. but of course everyone has their predilections." The touch screen on the Boulder 866 is the best I've seen and experienced from any brand and large enough to be of actual use. / Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se |
@highend 666. Mostly, sound quality is lacking on a video shot. That isn't my point. Perhaps (and I cannot be sure of this) what could be valid is "switching" during the same vid. . With all the pieces shelved as seen in your Utube vid, I was craving to understand audio differences from all these other pieces. I think if I still owned my audio salons today, this is what I'd do. Perhaps "differences" would come through helping the customer narrow his decision. When I was selling, there were 4 other audio stores within a 3 mile radius. 30 manufacturers could be heard with a stroll. That's gone today. Today, I would have to travel 40 miles just to hear some equipment. Add another 150 miles to hear other equipment. I think this method might be handy-dandy for the consumer to perhaps delineate choices. Then mail-order away to see how it sounds at your place. |
@arro222 I like it when a manufacturer executes, takes some chances, innovates and achieves their design goals. The sound quality, check. Versatility and content, check. Angled front and user interface, check. The heatsinks actually work extremely well, they aren't fragile in the least nor prone to bending like so many designs. They are sturdy and and actually are very convenient when lifting/moving the amplifier. They provide a wonderful non slip way for the finger to grip while placing the 866. They are not, however, capable of slicing cheese or your fingers like most heatsinks. Cool with me if you wouldn't consider owning it. That's what makes things interesting. |
@ghasley Consider me a "burbler" of its aesthetics. I know Boulder always attempts to make their designs standout from the rest, looks wise. But their 866 appears to me as an "accordion ". Didn't think it was that necessary to do so and strikes me as outlandish. They have always spent lots of money on their caseworks. Design wise, the shell of the 866 strikes me as an unnecessary stroke and for me, that is not BS. I know its me but as good as it may sound to me for that matter, I couldn't own it because I couldn't stand looking at it. |
@sidekick_i Thanks for your message. Appreciate your input, the Ypsilon sounds like an interesting addition but is outside my price point it seems. Unless I find one used. @jamesdowningelliott Thanks for your message. Yes, I think I would love the 509X, heard so much good things about it, and do love the build quality. If my all-in-one plan doesn't pan out, it will be the first I would look at. @joey54 Yes, will be auditioning the Mimas for sure. |
@essrand - if you are looking for the opposite of your current system, I feel there is an answer that is both hard to beat sonically, but also a phenomenal value and beautiful to look at. The integrated has been mentioned before, but I just can’t think of anything better. Luxman 509x + Streaming Dac (Lumin x1 would be a great choice) + Harbeth 40.2 (or 30.2 if the room is small) I had the 509x/30.2 combo for several years in NYC until upgraditis hit when I got a bigger apartment. I moved to Focal Sopra 3 (would not disappear and harsh) then Harbeth 40.2 (the best speaker I have ever had), I also moved to the Luxman M900, and you know what? I like the 509x better. I got rid of the 900s and bought some huge Rogue Audio tube separates, which are great sounding, but the 509x is such a phenomenal sounding integrated, and looks so much better (it is built like a Swiss watch) that I honestly feel it might be a better solution than seperates. The lux/Harbeth combo has an uncommon synergy and a really cool look - this is equipment that looks like 70s stereo equipment in the best way possible, but the build quality is shockingly good. It is incredibly luxurious while also totally under the radar - your friends who don’t know will think it is some old crap LOL and you will know it is $35k worth of integrated and speakers. And it sounds like $70k! |
Hi guys, I’ve had many integrated amps here or passing through during recent years incl. Dartzeel NHB-18NS, Gryphon Diablo 300, Mark Levinson 585, McIntosh MA8000 and more. The one’s who’s managed to hold their ground over time are the Ayre AX-5 Twenty, Boulder 866, Ypsilon Phaethon and Accuphase E-480 within this price range operating in class A/B. All different, but at the very top in terms of performance, build quality and support from the professionals behind them. We’re also carrying Aesthetix (where the Mimas is great but not on par with the alternatives mentioned above). Pass is moving in as well, but they do not offer any integrated DAC and/or streaming options for their amps. I’m happy to answer any specific questions regarding any of them. / Marcus, www.perfect-sense.se |
Aesthetix is A/B not D. But larger issue is what speakers you want to mate the amp with? The Mimas loves my Vandersteen Treo CTs although I believe it would work with a variety of speakers. Point is match amp to speaker. Finally, consider what you’re buying. Aesthetix says every product they make or have made can still be serviced. How many audio companies can claim that? |
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@heshfran, Thanks for your helpful post. Pass would be ruled out for now, since it's not an all-in-one, but will keep it in mind if I move away from my "all-in-one" mentality. ML 585.5 I will add to the list. Thanks. @jperry Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure why I thought Mimas was class D, Stereophile said something about FET stage something, so I took it as class D. My bad. @smer319 Not a fan of JR Continuum, but CH Precision i1 is interesting, but doesn't it retail at 50K something? |
Aesthetix Mimas is not a Class D amplifier. See the below quote from their web site: Big Power, Stable Power For power amplification, we again looked to our existing industry standard products and borrowed a derivative of the output section from our Atlas amplifier. This power output section is fully discrete (no integrated circuits), fully differential, zero-feedback, DC coupled, balanced bridge output operating in Class AB. It is capable of 150W into 8 ohms, and nearly double into 4ohms, with both channels driven. Aesthetix painstakingly matches individual FET input devices and bipolar output devices, to ensure channel matching, linearity and stability driving any speaker load. |
We are a dealer for a few choice products. 1. Hegel H-590 Reference Integrated Amplifier. 2. Vinni Rossi L2i & L2i SE Integrated Amplifier. 3. CH Precision i1 4. Jeff Rowland Continuum Integrated Amplifier ( Class D but sweet sounding ) If you have questions, Please call 626-966-6259 www.sunnyaudiovideo.com |
Hello @essrand - First, I think your specifying a price point is entirely appropriate and, in fact, essential, to generating intelligent and helpful responses. But there are all kinds on here as I learned from being a 25 year Agoner. I think I may have been in the same or similar SS integrated boat as you are and I believe I am in a position to provide useful feedback. Many of the above comments make truly excellent suggestions which should be weighed. I have four systems in my home (large home) and two are based on SS integrateds. One is the Mark Levinson 585 and the other is the Pass INT 250. The Pass is driving Raidhos and the Levinson is driving Magicos. Both are in your wheelhouse, i.e. $10-15K and 200 WPC or more. I must say I love them both, but the Pass is closer to a tube amp than almost every other integrated mentioned, and that includes the wonderful Hegel, DartZeel and Vitus integrateds. Also, the Pass is simply the best with an analog front end. (I have a post seeking turntable advice so if anyone cares to help out there, that would be nice). Both companies excel over many of the others mentioned, however, in customer service, with Pass being over the top. But Harmon is also very responsive. This is an important factor for me. I have a son who is an electrical engineer educated at Georgia Tech, but I can hardly replace batteries in a flashlight. If you would like more detailed feedback on these amps please feel free to message me. Hope some of this is useful to you. Regards, H |
The reviews all said the 390 was great for its price but that the 590 was on a different level, and the 590 is well within the budget, so might as well get the best for the money willing to spend. If wattage was the only difference and didn’t feel the need for then that’s different. Having said that it sounds like speakers arnt set yet and I do believe I saw Maggie’s 20.7 mentioned as a possibility( they can suck up lots more power than 300 watts no problem) And also that he was looking to go with efficient speakers so much this time. Based on that, I’d look into as much power as possible, and for anyone who bass is a big deal, the more power, the better the control over the bass. |
The gryphon Diablo 300 is built world class looks great and beats seperates that cost over $20 k .my brother owns one .just check out any current review ,for less then $8k the New Krell 300 is very good sounding and has hdmi,inputs and outputs meaning you can have a direct feed to your HD TV, both have a nice warmer natural balance.the Gryphon is the best integrated I have heard to date and I have heard the $20k Dartzeel which is excellent the gryphon is more powerful and will double down to under 2 ohms to over 900wpc great head room which you should always have much more then you need. For sure check ot the Krell though it stays in pure class A up to over 90 wpc Thatis more then most people listen to at90+ db spl. You didnot mention what kind of speakers you are driving I owned a Audio store for years and system synergy is very important ,when looking to upgrade please state your speakers and efficiency . |
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@ghasley Thank you for your detailed post about your experience. It was your enthusiastic post on audioaficionado that brought the 866 in my radar view. Also I saw your posts and feel like we have similar tastes, I am mostly a tube guy, and a big fan of Nagra. Own the Nagra 300p that is powering a Devore O/96 in my primary system. @thyname lol, you might be right, I might have already made up my mind to purchase the 866, before even writing up this post. I love its looks and that solid metal feel. Sigh! But feel it remiss to spend 15K without doing any research and enjoying the hunt as well. @roxy54 I wasn't aware that esoteric had an integrated all-in-one with DAC/streamer built-in. Which model? @gestalt Isn't the LHC-208, 18K retail. I have a hard 15K limit. I might be okay with trying a DAC/streamer + integrated but hard to think any combo within 15K (other than Luxman + DAC, but it has no streamer, that makes it 3 boxes) that might come close to 866. But then again I haven't heard 866 yet, only one Whathifi review and one actual user review so far. So I am just extrapolating and imagining things based on reviews, I am sure. Will checkout Vitus, thanks for the pointer. DAG Progression is way out of budget but would have been perfect, but like you said not sure about how good the DAC is. Dag isn't known for DACs. Yes, I agree I should choose a speaker first as well, but speakers are very personal and need to be auditioned and almost pointless to discuss compared to amps or DAC. IMO. I am looking for a speaker/amp system to be exact opposite of my first system (tube + high efficiency rich and "coloured" speakers). High powered SS driving maybe an electro-static or panel speakers like a Maggie 20.7 or Soundlabs OR a neutral beast like Magico A1/A3 or YG (way out of budget tho). But that will be a separate thread or not. But hope it helps narrow down my amp search. |
+2 on the DarTZeel LHC-208! Meets all your criteria and the built in DAC is extraordinary! Slightly above your budget new at $18K, but oh so wonderful. May find one used for $12K. Outstanding! By the way LHC stands for Little Heaven’s Corner, and it is. 200watts per channel easily drives my PMC Fact 12 speakers (86db) with ease, and much grace. |
