Aeris speakers amp

Have you talked to Legacy Audio about your desires,  or are you just shooting in the dark? The larger drivers are not a problem  for average powered amps. You could use the Legacy amp on the bass/subwoofer and something else on top. It will be completely different speakers to drive than the full range focus. Talk to Legacy. 

Thank you for the reply....
Actually, I have reached out to Legacy. They seem to be noncommittal about the PL and recommend their amp or a Coda. Using the class D PS Audio amps as a reference, I've decided to shy away from class D like the Legacy amps. The PL's were my first foray into tubes and I really liked the sound. My concern is the ability of the PL's to drive the speakers to the fairly loud level that I sometimes do. I used the old Focus to try to get a feel of how they would do by biamping with the PL driving the upper end using the one I have in stereo mode. The amp seemed to handle the load to a point but could hear an audible change at higher listening levels. I listen to different genres of music depending on mood.... rock, jazz, blues, alt country, etc., and will "rock out" on occasion at a higher volume. The speakers are in the large open room with my usual listening position about 12 ft. away. I have read many reviews of the Aeris and searched discussion boards and have ended up undecided about the PrimaLuna amps being up for the job even in monoblock. The Focus speakers at some frequencies dip down into the 2 ohm range and if the Aeris does the same and with larger drivers, I would assume that it would make it harder on the PL's. The Aeris is rated at 95db at 2.83v so actually 92? I've used SPL calculators to get a feel for performance and think the PL's are on the edge. Maybe an amp like the BHK would be better suited. The new speakers probably will not arrive before I have to make a decision on keeping the PL's so I am just trying to get a setup decided on.

Nice research! Ok, so are you gonna face it? You want a new amp with your new speakers! ;) OK, so the PLs are out, or done in Mono, at which point you may as well look at possibilities of new amp(s). 

I had a similar situation with the Pathos Classic One years ago (models I, II and III reviewed for Dagogo.com). I did get a second one and run them mono. It was swell! But, eventually, as will happen, a different amp outperformed and they went goodbye. I still miss their gorgeous midrange, however, and gorgeous looks. 

Regarding class D, it's not possible to gain a perfect perspective on the genre from one ownership experience. I have never been overwhelmed by PS Audio amps; just being honest. If you are using old models of PS Audio I can certainly see why you're not seeking class D. But, there is a fairly wide range of performance among class D. Just letting you know. 

But, if you adore tube sound, sure, why not stick with it? OTOH, the Legacy amps were designed to have high synergy with their speakers - and that is an important possible advantage that should not be overlooked. Perhaps chat with other big Legacy speaker owners who have their amps. I certainly would not dismiss that option. It is entirely possible that the Legacy amp could be preferable to any given tube amp you select. Only direct comparison would tell. 

You're asking people to give you an edge on SS/tube without ever hearing the amps or speakers. Can't be done. You simply have to do your homework in terms of actual comparison if your goal is to know with certainty. 

Congrats on the Aeris! I own a pair and have been very happy with them for a few years now. 

I can share my experiences and if they are of some help to you, great. I have tried a pair of JC1s, Veritas, an XA25, a 150.8, and finally a Gyphon Diablo 300 on the Aeris, so I can offer some thoughts. 

JC1s sounded pretty good on the high bias setting. Even though the bass is powered by the internal amps to my ears it seems like that output and sound is still influenced by the amps, so with the JC1s the bottom end was big and bold and driving the speakers to high volume wasn't a problem. The high end also sounded pretty good. If there was a gap, so to speak, these were a little noisy in the midrange. But that is being very picky. Perhaps the newer JC1s 

The Veritas had unbelievable speed - so fast that they actually made the music seem a little artificial to my ears. Dead quiet, but everything had a "high tech" sheen to it. I tried different cables but to no avail. This wasn't a good match.

I wanted to like the XA25 as everyone seems to love it, and depending on the music format it might have been able to stay, but once I moved away from acoustic or folk type stuff to heavier rock, or larger scale music in general, the sound collapsed and it sounded like I was running out of gas with any kind of volume. 

The 150.8 was very close to the JC1s in terms of overall sound. The JC1s had a little more oomph and boogie factor, the 150.8 had a sweeter tone overall. Bass was great either way. The 150.8 might have had a little more rounded sound, the JC1s maybe a little deeper overall. 

The amp that has stayed on the rack is the Diablo 300. It seems to combine the best features of the other amps. It has fantastic drive - you don't run out of gas. It has musical and deep bass. It has a clean top end - maybe not as sweet as some of the others, but also not rigid or artificial. IMO, the Gryphon delivers pretty everything except that last 2% of tube midrange magic some of the best tube amps provide. 

Overall, I think the Aeris like having more power than the efficiency rating would seem to dictate. I have found great success with upgrading the power supply running the Wavelet, and even then upgrading the power cable running to the upgraded power supply. Before jumping amps, my suggestion would be to give that upgrade some serious consideration.  

Gentlemen - I guess I am being a little anal about this but I do like to have a plan in place that has a good chance of success. Then also to have a plan b, then c, ......... I don't know if it is "good" trait to have but it has served me pretty well in my career.

douglas_schroeder - thank you for your reply and valuable insights. I have always felt it is good to look at different experienced viewpoints. I have visited  Dagogo.com  and found it to be informative.

koslekt1 - I very much appreciate you sharing the experience you have with the Aeris speakers. You have imparted a few things :
Your experience with the CJ tells me that tubes can indeed mate well with with these speakers and that mono may well be the way to go. I'm not sure how the amps could affect the bottom end unless it was the way it melded at the crossover point? 
I have read other opinions of the Aeris liking more power and with my experience running the PL on the Focus, I am leaning in that direction. I think that it may be a characteristic of Legacy speakers in general.
One question though....
In reference to the Diablo, I see it is an integrated amp with quite impressive specs and reviews. Are you using it as a preamp and the Wavelet just for DSP or just using the amplifier output? This is one of my concerns using the PL preamp this way as I don't see a big benefit of converting the analog signl to digital, manipulating it, then converting back to analog.
Thanks again for your replies, they do help. 

I'm glad if any of my thoughts help you as you try to determine your next steps. 

It should be noted that I haven't tried tubes with the Aeris - I was referring to the Parasound JC1 monoblocks, the original version. I'm hearing wonderful things about the new updates, so as nice as the original versions sounded, perhaps the updated ones are even better. 

The Aeris likes power - there shouldn't be any second guessing that point. The soundstage collapses, things get crispy sounding, and things generally are less enjoyable as everything gets constricted.

I agree with Douglas in that I would use the PL if you like their sound. if nothing else, it sets a benchmark for you as you know what they sound like, and that will help you as you try other gear. 

In my current setup, I am using the Wavelet as the DAC and Preamp and simply using the 300 as an amplifier. I agree with you in that less processing seems like the better route to take. 

OOPS! My mind transposed JC to CJ. Thanks again.

I hoped by this time I could be enjoying my new speakers but that is not the case.I totally understand issues relating to the time we are living in but this is bordering on ridiculous. Originally was told delivery would be 4-5 weeks. I am now going into week 8. I received a few status updates that made it sound that completion was eminent but alas,none of the estimated times came to fruition. Last update was that they would ship last Monday or Tuesday but the shipping info didn't make it to FedEx until Thursday. They were picked up Thursday and made a tour of the Chicago area until Friday night before making it to the Kansas City area on Saturday. They took a tour of the Kansas City area and stayed there for 4 days. Now the tracking info shows an exception and a delay with no updated delivery date. Sheeeeesh!
I guess it wouldn't be so bad except I put my old Focus speakers on Craigslist right away. To my surprise they sold in 2 days. I have been without any music except for an old system out int the garage. 
Oh well, cest la vie! Sort of takes the fun out of it........

I guess I'm reading all the opinions wrong. The prevailing opinion is that you need alot of power. I don't think a small tube amp is what they are talking about. I own a PrimaLuna 400 and it's great but I doubt its right for that speaker. Try some JC1. They drive anything and everything. The Wavelet processor seems to be a given with the Aeris. I'm not sure why people buy the Aeris is they aren't interested in the processor. 

bubba12
   I've decided to sit pat and try the PL and see what it does. It only has to drive the upper end as the bottom is powered. The wavelet has analog inputs and can be used as a preamp or just for DSP. I decided on the Wavelet as my room sorely needs it and room treatment is not possible due to WAF. I will be trying out all permutations to see which sounds the best to me. I plan on taking some time  to decide about amplification. Legacy stated that the upper end is around 98db at 2.83v and only dip down to 3.8 ohms. I guess my ears will tell me if I should stick with tubes or go back to SS.
I see you have the Goldenear Reference speakers with a Mcintosh amp. I had a home demo with those (I must say Goldenear was most accommodating in that).
I thought they were fine sounding speakers and liked the fact that the bottom end was powered. Switched back and forth to my old Focus speakers and my impression was the Goldenears were better on the top end but the Focus with the 3 12" woofers outperformed it in the bass department. I was driving them with the PSA M700 monos I had at the time. For me the Goldenear was more of a step sideways instead of up. 
Do you ever use the PL on your speakers? How does it compare to the Mcintosh?

@steveindy
I have the Focus SE’s and was going to try the M700’s. I decided to compare the Legacy PowerBloc2 vs. my Plinius A/B amp and decided I liked the Plinius better. The PowerBloc was a good amp and I was impressed with it but the A/B in my opinion outperformed it. I can see class D for bass drivers but not top end. How were the M700’s?

- falconquest
Aeris speakers were finally delivered yesterday. Woo Hoo!
I had 25-30 year old Focus and PSA 250 Delta amps. I bought the M700's after one of the 250's decided to quit working. I hooked up the M700's and at first thought they sounded pretty good. After living with them for a time, a harshness and sibilance on the upper end really started to bug me. I think it was compounded by my room but at any rate I started out trying to solve the issue. As the midwoofers seemed to be the worst offenders I inspected them and could tell there were a few problems with a couple of them and I decided to replace all the upper drivers. With help from Brice at Legacy, I bought and replaced all the drivers. End result was better but there still was a quality on the upper end I didn't care for. Enter the PL Evo 400 preamp. It did soften up things a bit (and the triode mode was good for some recordings) but it still wasn't where I wanted it. Enter the PL amp. Biamped the speakers and had better results but still not completely pleased. The M700's seemed to do a good job on the lower end as I had added an attenuator to control the boominess somewhat. I finally decided that the room was all that was left to fix. Ordered the Aeris, sold the Focus, and sold the M700's. I just didn't feel the M700's were for me. Made the upper end sound sort of sterile and not engaging. My opinion is at this time a class D amp is not for me. I liked the smaller package and they do pack some power but found the musicality missing as compared to the old 250's and the PL. As class D continues to evolve I might give them  another shot down the line.

Set up the Aeris yesterday evening and I must say that in my limited listening to them so far, I was completely blown away. Best sounds I've ever had. I have not put the PL preamp into the mix yet and haven't really driven the PL amp hard. So far I'm impressed with how the PL has driven them but am suspecting monoblocking  another PL may be needed, try a different tube amp with more power, or might go back to SS. I will take a few weeks or so to decide what direction to go.

Happy listening with those Focus! I always felt they were good speakers....

@steveindy I'm glad the Aeris are working out so far. The PLs are great amps I just wasn't sure if it matched properly. Great news!

  To answer your question, I have sold the Goldenear References and the Mcintosh gear. I bought some Dynaudio Evidence Temptations and JC 1 monos. I wasn't displeased with the Goldenears but the Temptations are at another level. They like lots of power though.

@bubba12 
Wow, some speakers you got there! When you move up you really move up. I bet they do eat the power....... 
Since I don't have the M700's anymore I might buy a used SS amp just to see how it does compared to the PL.

happy listening!

I have had these speakers for a week now and must say they sound amazing. The setup was a snap and the wavelet room correction is just what I needed. I also appreciate the contour function and utilize it on some recordings. I tried out the PL preamp but after switching back and forth to the wavelet as a preamp, I found that the PL muddied the waters somewhat. The mids sounded almost the same but the upper end wasn't as resolved or detailed and the soundstage seemed somewhat collapsed in comparison. Out with the preamp....
At this point in time while I feel the sound is quite good with the PL, it seems to run out of gas a bit and sounds a little "sluggish" especially at higher volumes. Was considering another PL to run mono but I have started to come to the conclusion that SS might be a better match.

Amps that I have been looking into are:
JC1+
Coda 15.5
X250.8
XA100.8
XA160.8
Not sure if the Pass Labs XA series would return sound enough sound quality for the leap in price but they do seem to be highly regarded. 
Any input or opinions would be appreciated.

Well......
After much research, I decided to get a Pass Labs x-260.8 from Reno HiFi. Kent at Pass Labs and Mark at Reno were very helpful. My reasoning:

Bipolar vs. MOSFET...... I've heard the description of the two as Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up. Not sure if that is really as valid today as in the past but one thing I do know is that I desire a slightly warmer than neutral sound as I cannot stand much sibilance especially in female voices. Past A/B amplifiers I have had seem to have some degree of this characteristic. Legacy Audio used to voice their speakers with Coda (and may still) so that synergy was appealing to an extent. I feel the passive speakers they produced with the big woofers and multiple drivers could avail themselves of the high current available from the Codas. The partially active speakers that Legacy is now producing certainly shouldn't require the amount of current as in the past. The bottom end of the Aeris is drive by 1000 W of class D with a crossover at 80 Hz. The cross over is provide electronically by the Wavelet DSP/preamp so no passive crossover needed. This also means only frequencies above 80 Hz are provided to the upper end (with passive crossovers) for the 10-inch woofer, 8-inch mid, and the two ribbons. I would assume this would reduce the back EMF and current needed. From reading about the different amplifier designs, I seem to come down on the MOSFET side.
Class A..... I chose to try the X-260.8 for a few reasons. Cost vs return is always a factor as I wanted to try the amps while minimizing potential expenses if they weren't for me as compared to the more expensive XA line. The 260's have more available Class A power and I figured it would give me a pretty good taste of the flavor to decide whether to move over to XA-160.8.   I am also hoping the higher slew rate will be a benefit in the speed and detail. With my speakers I would expect to consistently run in class A. I couldn't find a review on these amps ( only one on the .5 series) but most of the comments about them on discussion boards were very positive. I kind of took other reviews and extrapolated them over to the 260's. Could not find much in used sale histories but don't know if that was because of happy owners or just few being sold. I get the feeling these might be some under-known or under- appreciated amps. Besides, I just like mono-blocks, be it actual or psycho-acoustical perceptions, I don't know.
I've had the amps for a few days now and I must say I was quite surprised how great they sounded out of the box with minimal warm-up time. I didn't want to lose the smooth midrange from the PrimaLuna and on the first song I played, it was evident that the Pass improved the mids immensely. The soundstage is larger and more realistic. The upper end is more detailed and clear with no hint of sibilence. It was like a veil was lifted and the speakers were allowed to open up and show what they could do. I stayed up half the night listening to them with no fatigue whatsoever. I am quite happy with my choice and will take the 4 months that Reno HiFi allows for trade- up to decide on the 160's.

Happy listening!

I came across your posts and wondered what your final outcome was.

 

I have the Black Pearl Aeris and have been considering upgrading my amplifiers.  I have an opportunity to get a Dartzeel NFB-108 Model One my dealer (Unlimited Audio) has access to.  I recently upgraded my front to the Aries Cerat Incito S and Helene DAC.

The Aeris system I heard was using the Legacy i.V2 amp. One of the best systems I've heard.

Find a dealer that can loan you the i.V2. Based on some of the other recommendations, you might end up saving a ton of money.

I’m coming in late here, but I would agree that if using the Wavelet, you should primarily focus on amps that are deliver unrestricted current and high power. I owned the Aeris/Wavelet combo when loving tubes and realized quickly that using tube amps in combination with the Wavelet pretty much sucks the soul the tubes bring. I hated it so much that I modified my Aeris to use an analog crossover instead which the bass section only was DSP’ed. I then paired the mids and highs with a pair of heavily upgraded Cary 805AE monoblocks, which were 50wpc of SET goodness. It was a wonderful result.

I moved on from this setup over a year ago, and the buddy who bought my Aeris is now pairing them with a PL HP amp (without the Wavelet also) and has been pretty happy. Consensus seems to be high wattage is a benefit, but not at all necessary if current delivery is unrestricted.

That said, if you truly want to keep the Wavelet, consider going SS as the Wavelet may take away the good harmonics tubes bring. 

@sm121055

After spending about a year and a half with the Pass Labs amps, they have proven to be the amps for me. I have no desire to look to something else as I am quite satisfied with my setup as is. I did try every connection permutation with the Prima Luna when making the comparisons with the Pass amps, and the PL just wasn't up to the task and thought running two of them as mono blocks wasn't going to help. There well may be some tube amps out there that would sound great with these speakers but I decided to stay with the SS and end my search. I would expect that Dartzeel amp you are considering would match or even exceed the Pass amps. My only reservation would be the power rating but that would depend on how you listen. I really enjoy the sound from my system at lower volumes and at higher volumes the sound is not degraded in the least as the PL seemed to be. I still have it in the back of my head to possibly move up to the Legacy V speakers but have been fighting the urge as the Aeris fill my room more than adequately. Happy listening!

@steveindy How big is your room? Properly powered, the Aeris should be able to fill a large room. That said, even with a solid amp, I would want at least two subs to help it fill the bottom end and improve the imaging across the board.