Advice and recommendations needed for a turntable rig...

That’s why I think this Technics SP-10 MKII, with Acos arm is a terrific combo, on eBay, $2,995. + shipping

Technics Sp-10 Mkii Turn Table W/sh-10b3 Obsidian Base & Lustre Gst-801

Nice but price is a bit stiff unless both are mint and table is thoroughly refurbished, IMO. 

US Audio Mart

Luxman 441. Acos 801 arm, asking $2,300.

ad says ’air bearing’. it is not, it uses the magnetic field of the Direct Drive motor to raise/reduce the bearing force. 1/4" thick iron plate within.

....................................................

I helped my friend get the wider PD-444 (two tonearms), this one on eBay, $1,990. delivered, 60 day returns. Add one arm now, 2nd arm later if desired.

LUXMAN PD444 record player Quartz lock direct drive Arm USED Japan #4903

We put two Micro-Seiki 505s on it (one long). Removable headshell and adjustable fitting for azimuth.

Had I known about it, I would have chosen it over my JVC Plinth, which is deeper rather than wider: I had a deeper 2nd glass top hanging over the back made

The Luxman fits anywhere there is enough width.

I squeezed a 3rd arm on my JVC, couldn’t do that with the Luxman

Luxman has hinged (removable) dust cover (you can play with it raised. My JVC, I lift the big factory dust cover off, and have a nearby spot for it, you need to plan for that to be easy and avoid scuffs with removable ones.

@elliottbnewcombjr … Oh! Haha… Yes, that oval ‘table looks really cool! So, regarding the cartridge swapping: I am not one to swap cartridges once I settle on one that pleases me. Now, “comparing” cartridges to choose a winner IS a real pain! But, I only do that a couple times per decade, so I put up with it. Some who have my arm choose to buy spare arm wands, which can be set up with alternative cartridges and just swapped in and out. The problem is the cost. A VPI JMW arm wand is, for me, too much to spend for an option I would rarely use. But thank you (again) for a thoughtful, informative response! 

lewm

I am being blocked when trying to post a link,

it's on ebay, item # 266622682282

krelldreams

I live 35 minutes away from VAS, have become friends with Steve Leung and his son Ray, both terrific people. Steve's TT is a big VPI with the uni-pivot removable arm wands, he has several arm wands with pre-mounted cartridges, and when you buy a cartridge or have him build you a cartridge, if you pick it up, he demo's it on that TT.

I can change a cartridge and set up the replacement in twenty minutes. If I change the headshell on the one tonearm I have that uses interchangeable headshells, it takes about 10-15 minutes including the set-up of the new cartridge (the SME 309 headshells don't allow for individual overhang: that must be set by moving the arm, which is pretty simple on an SME mount). It isn't that big a deal, either way. What does matter, is that even if I achieve a 10 minute change and set-up, I cannot compare the before and after: my auditory memory is not that long.

So I approve of your two tonearm advice, with one arm capable of holding multiple headshells. When my custom Acoustand panels arrive, I'll be using four fixed headshell tonearms, and two interchangeable headshell tonearms.

@2psyop I see your OP was quite clearly stating an interest in a not too old TT deign from Project, being the X8 Evolution Model.

Well I don't know if Mr Fremer can assure one that this is there ideal TT, but if he found satisfaction from experiencing it, then I am sure you can too.

The Thread has become a ricochet, where many suggestions are putting the idea of Vintage TT's as your options, these do come with their own unique age related issues, that can quite easily be a concern.

Read my recent posts on the Yamaha GT 2000 Thread, whatever is wrote there as quality / function concerns that are risks with such purchases to be inherited extends to all Vintage TT's.   

@pindac … He said he was “Looking for advice from those who have used ‘any’ turntable set up and why.” He went on to say that he was considering the Pro-ject. I have not heard the exact model he mentioned, but I have auditioned Many Pro-ject turntables in various price categories, and frankly, I have not been impressed… EXCEPT for their RM-9, RM-10, and their entry level models, which I believe are a great value, but well below the OP’s target range. I’m not bashing Pro-ject, or anyone that loves theirs, but that’s been My experience. Regarding “age related issues”, they are certainly a possibility, but most well-designed turntables are reliable, and require little, if anything, in the way of restoring. I’m not talking about models from the 1950s & 1960s here. For example; the VPI I recommend was first available in ~2005. Not new, but other than the belt, and (unlikely) the motor, there’s not much to deteriorate due to age. New is not always better, and can actually be worse, and cost more. Just my $.02, since I am one who recommended a “vintage” ‘table. I stand by my recommendation, and many other great choices were offered. YMMV 

@krelldreams My post was not an attack on how the thread evolved, it was to inform the OP new things needed to be thought about with some of the TT's being presented, as there very very long term usage and potentially not having any knowledge of how they have been treated, creates it own new concerns.

'Caveat Emptor' - will be ones friend when treading in this area of purchasing.  

I just can't stay away from TT posts, it's an affliction. For a first TT, or the first after a long absence, I will suggest keeping it simple. Avoid Uni-pivot and viscous damped tone arms for your rookie season. Frustration is a real possibility with a TT that takes hours, or days to set up. Go with Technics. Likewise high dollar low output MC cartridges are scary fragile, and not the ticket for used records (older records were designed for elliptical, and even older records, and mono, for conical, but it's your money.... Pro-Ject seems, to me, to take the attitude that they will fix the alignment parameters for the user's cartridge, which will limit learning. I use my Orbit Theory to play test used records after cleaning. As to cleaning, I use a Spin-Clean with Tergitol's (in distilled water) recommended dilution for Spin Clean, rinse with steam distilled water (cheap) from a pressurized spray bottle over the sink, NEVER use tap water for anything when it comes to records, and never use PVC storage products. Then before putting the records in a bamboo dish rack for final air dry, I pre-dry and vacuum with a Record Dr. I try to get to each record in the collection once a year LOL. I use a carbon brush for cleaning records (dust control) just before play and I never drag a carbon brush across the grooves, never!!! (just pick it up. That little handle is how you clean the bristles, just pass it across a couple times. Don't use your fingers (oils and grunge you can't even see). Amazon sells a large package of white cotton curator's gloves for cheap, they also have boar's hair shaving brushes, and goat hair record brushes that are not as aggressive as carbon, but effective and economical, and can be used to remove particles before wet cleaning. If you have static problems the anti-static gun, like Zerostat, is effective. As to stylus care, use a designated natural hair brush designed for stylus cleaning before each play, one stroke back to front (every time!). Avoid mouse milk and snake oil on the stylus, gels, lubricants, dips, drum dampeners, kitchen cleaning pads....I don't care about the testimonials, not on my stylus. Any record cleaning is better than no record cleaning; my records from the 60's & 70's cleaned with the Discwasher pad and fluid are in surprisingly good condition. Seek contentment and fulfillment, Grasshopper, and play it loud.

I have tra yelled as a commuter on my evening trip, with a girl who I only inquired yesterday what her Job was.

I learnt she is Head of conservation of the premises and preservation of the exhibits and stored artifacts. 

We discussed cleaning solutions, for a large proportion of the Journey. 

Pure Bliss, who would thought it possible. 

Ok. My contribution.

Get a restored vintage deck. Put a modern Ortofon 2M Black on it. Then get a Project Ds2 phono pre. 

Low cost to enter the vinyl world. Buy records and good cleaning equipment with the rest of your budget.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1a4bt-z5IaHpjRSzxJsnBSO3apZNyhoI

I am very pleased with my Marantz TT 15 and Moon 110Lp.  The sound is a big step up from my previous components.  I also found setting up the turntable to be engaging and educational. 

I echo a couple of the early posts that recommend a used DD turntable. I have 7 Denons, of which 3 are being used--good ones from the 80s will run for years, and the servo arms take care of a lot of worrying about cartridge matching and so on. Some like the 47 have changeable headshells, others like the 59 & 60, changeable tonearms. All of which makes installing a cartridge easy.Don't be scared off by things will go bad on them. If they run now, they will run for awhile, at least long enough for you to know what you want to commit. I also have 2 belt TTs, a SuperPoly, and a VPI. The Superpoly is elegant, simple, and you will hear higher end cartrdiges better on it than the Denon DDs. But I'd start with a DD, Denon or Technics, used. And go from there. Under a certain dollars figure, all the phono amps are shades of gray--I have 6 different ones btw $350 and $1,200 retail....all bought used for half that.  both tube and SS. They all sound good. The convenience of a decent MM cartridge on a Denon 47F will have you playing more and fussing less. The next step up is a re-tipped Denon 301 or 303 or other lightweight cartridge, Grado Ref Sonata, on a Denon 59,60,or 61. Then it's the VPI or SuperPoly with adjustable VTA with a good arm, and heaver MC cartridge. If you are guying new records and get trapped by the 180g stuff, you need two different mats, one for regular vinyl, and one for the 180g to keep the VTA right (way easier than fussing with even adjustable VTA).

Just my two cents. I have a MoFi ultra deck. Super easy set up out of the box, 5 minutes or less. I also bought the MoFi phono pre amp. Very happy with this set up as my re-entry back into LPs. The pre-mounted Master Tracker mm cart is really very good. The ultra deck is heavy, the platter is heavy and dense. Over the past couple of years I upgraded my pho preamp to a Paradound JC3 Jr. and a Hana ML mc cart. After visiting the Fla. audio expo, I’m convinced that I’d have to get into the $6 to $8k territory to gain significant improvement.

I added turntable to my system 2 years ago and I am loving it. I find myself playing it more often than streaming or playing CD… The table is Transrotor zet 3.1, tonearm is Sorane SA 1.2, Cartridge is Dynavector XV-1S and phono preamp is Burmester 100. Being my first experience in analog, all I can say is absolutely amazing sound… Vinyl is super nice… 

For $1,650, you can get a Music Hall "Stealth" with an Ortofon 2M "Blue" cartridge. The Stealth is no lightweight at 24 lbs. It's direct drive, has a great cartridge and you can change tracking angle while a record is playing. It's what I currently use.

I also agree with @dorkwad that the Fluance line is a great way to enter the world of vinyl without blowing a ton of money. I've had experience with the RT-83 ($350) and RT-85 ($500) and find them to be very worthy entry-level units. Both are available with an onboard phono stage for $100, but I have no experience with it. 

I’ve had the VPI HW MK IV with SAM since 1985. 

It’s built like a brick schiethaus, as the saying goes. Weighs a ton: the platter alone is 16 lbs. 

Feichert Volare?  A little above budget, but otherwise fits criteria of high mass design I think.  I have no experience of it personally, but very highly regarded by people I tend to find credible.

Not much to add to this very interesting string of comments but your options for high quality TT/arm/cartridge combos go way up if you buy used. Of course, you don't have the local shop or manufacturer to back you up, but it seems most people who sell here and on USAM are straight-up and you have a lower probability of being burned maybe compared to Ebay.  

I have a VPI HW 19 Mk 1 and I've used it for a very long time and I've had no problems with it. I also own a barely used HW 19 Jr which I intend to use as a motor donor, if the need arises. I think there are plenty of parts and potential upgrades for most quality used TT so, think about that path. On the other hand, your original choice seems like a good start.

The OP has an excellent budget of $3,500.00 including cartridge. I own several tables ranging from a REGA P10, P8, a 50th Anniversary P3 and a recent to the market Denon 3000 NE. The P3 50th Anniversary tops out at less than $2,000 and is an excellent table. I would purchase the REGA Ania Pro cartridge for $1,225 and then still have a table under the front porch $3,500 budget. 

The best value in Turntables right now and the most fuss free is the Denon 3000 NE. Weighs 40 pounds, built like a tank, is from a company that has producing HiFi equipment since 1910 and has a direct drive brushless motor with less than .006 wow and flutter for a price of $2,500.00.  It has adjustable VTA and an extra tonearm weight so it can handle almost every cartridge on the planet. Buy a Ortofon 2m Black cartridge and you have a winner. 

However, there are many offerings in this price point that will do the job, the Technics 1200GR is a great DD table as well. The Planar 6 by Rega is a critics choice and VPI Scout is a fussy but excellent table. Even the new Thorens TD-1600 is a nice choice. Whatever you decide, jumping back in to the vinyl experience is a great way to expand your musical enjoyment. Good luck in your selection.

dogberry

"I can change a cartridge and set up the replacement in twenty minutes. If I change the headshell on the one tonearm I have that uses interchangeable headshells, it takes about 10-15 minutes including the set-up of the new cartridge (the SME 309 headshells don’t allow for individual overhang: that must be set by moving the arm"

Good skills! There is no way most people could change/setup a cartridge on a fixed arm in 20 minutes. My friend knows how, has the tools, but waits for me, I supervise, he does it. Takes longer that way.

And, a heck of a lot of people do not have any cartridge mount/align skills,

the fixed arm comes with factory aligned cartridge, UNTIL ,,, stylus is worn.

If MM, switch stylus, the cartridge body remains in-place/aligned, takes seconds.

IF MC, everything must be mounted/all alignments, with a few inexpensive tools, and some skills practiced enough to be confident. Or have a friend or hired person do it. Give yourself a lifetime gift by learning/doing it yourself.

.............................

As you say, some arms, you move the base in/out.

Typical ’standard’ removable headshell with slots, (allowing prior overhang and null points adjustments) stay aligned, change the headshell in seconds: all that is needed: verify azimuth (headshell fitting allows minor azimuth adjustment prior to final tightening, takes seconds) then set tracking weight and anti-skate: (altogether less than 5 minutes).

I buy headshells with allen key clamps, allowing the initial azimuth adjustment while in the arm fitting. Micro-Seiki 505 arms allow you to adjust the fitting on the arm for azimuth, a terrific feature.

Alternate Mono Cartridge; Alternate Stereo Cartridge: same as MC: mount/overhang/2 null points/azimuth/vta/ all pre-aligned once. simply adjust tracking weight/anti-skate when you want to use that pre-aligned cartridge.

The majority get anti-skate wrong, re-builders and makers say the majority of stylus they check are worn on one edge only! Using Hudson Hifi alignment LP with other side blank allows easy and accurate anti-skate to be set with visual confirmation, very quickly.

Arm Height: VTA. Refined VTA is for perfectionists, most of us get very good results with ’parallel arm method. Tonearm parallel to LP when stylus is in the groove (cantilever flexed by tracking weight), that is why it is important or very important to have an arm with easy height adjustment.

For me: changeable headshell/easy height adjustment, I haven’t seen anything as easy and smooth as the Acos Lustre GST-801.

I decided to take some advice here and I took the Dual 1219 in for repair locally. I will see what can be done with it and save all the money in buying another quality new table at a much higher price. Not sure if I will like the record playing hobby, now that I have become more digital.  Again, thanks again for all the recommendations.

If the digital set up is using CD, the haptic between both hard mediums is very very similar, even though the CD replay, needs a little less finesse from the user placing it to be replayed and does not need an individual being ready for the end of a Album side to stop the replay.

Both have the material asset impact on one, as pride of ownership and sentiment is present.

Both the above are seemingly not present with a Digital Source based on a Hired Music Platform.

Vinyl is what it is, being a means to be entertained only, using Old Obsolete Tech as the methodology. That in itself has proved to be plenty enough for many.