AC Regenerator

I’ve been thinking of purchasing a PS audio p 1000. I have a Krell Fpb 600 and an ARC Ref 6. Also have them both on a dedicated 20 amp and using Shunyata King Cobra and HC PCs. Would the PS audio p 1000 be a work with my front ends ? Thanks to all. 

I have a PS Audio Power Plant Premier (PPP) and it's sitting in my garage. When originally purchased it helped smoothed out my CD player and  DAC.  It functioned fine for years.  A couple years ago I retired and added four dedicated 20 amp outlet.  Later the fan in the PPP stopped cycling, running non-stop.  I disconnected it to pack it up for repairs.  Once removed, I never notice a change is my system performance. Therefore it is collecting dust.  Note: during the time I used the PPP all my front end gear changed at least once, all having better internal power components.  

I just received my PS Audio P12 and its just wonderful. Sinewave setting is very nice with natural details, the multiwave 6 level gives the whole presentation and vocals a nice presence. This is right out of the box with 3 hours on it, I use the Cardas Clear Beyond power cord. I am using the P12 for front end only and I am using a whopping 35 watts. This new series is the real deal and worth every penny and I've owned many over the past 15 years or so. By far the best, Denali and all the rest, though the Furman Reference 20i was really good also, in fact, I kept it for my Video system. Look inside a Furman or a PS Audio and compare it to many others, are series filters and parallel filters with very little inside to justify their prices, though the magazines really help certain manufactures year or year.   

PS Audio isn't the only game in town. Purepower makes very good regenerators with battery back-up.

I use a Purepower 1500+ which is excellent. The only concern is their customer service isn't the best, but the units are reliable. Had mine for about 6 years with no problems. 

I run all my equipment on it, even the amps with no loss of dynamics.

5,000 watts!  No they won't get hot, as they will shut down the instant you try to draw that much power.

Im not familiar with these newest models, I know the early ones did not offer anything i am asking about these $5000 units.
what is the claimed output distortion under continuous full load?
can they drive 5000 watts on a continuous basis without running hot?
what does it do during a momentary power glitch?
can you program all the operational parameters?

@souljacker     +1

PS Audio...that’s it.
By now you should find some nice deals on used P5/P10 units.
Don’t hesitate, when it comes to clean power PS Audio is the way to go. After I’ve tried the P5 "I couldn’t live" anymore without a regenerator.
Not to mention their customer service, it's one of the most effective and proactive I've encountered in this business. In my book that counts. A lot.

please see below buy these 2 and your power will be heavanly good plus safer than ANY regen. and lots more capacity for your Amps too.

https://www.tripplite.com/isolator-series-120v-1800w-ul60601-1-medical-grade-isolation-transformer-6...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-DL5000RMT5U-Smart-UPS-5000VA-3750W-UPS-Uninterruptible-Power-Supply/153...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-Smart-UPS-3000VA-2700W-RM-2U-SMT3000RM2U-New-Batteries-Free-Shipping/11...

@sacresta ... you mentioned NYC in one of your earlier posts in this thread.  If you’re located here (as I am) — or in any urban environment — then I think your interest in a regenerator is especially warranted.  I’m in Brooklyn with sometimes OK AC and oftentimes awful AC.  I started with a PS Audio P3 and now have a P5.

I noticed the benefit of regeneration immediately, but it took upgrading to realize what I had.  After removing the P3 from my system, and while waiting for the P5, I remember struggling to listen to my system at all ... it just wasn’t all that pleasurable after experiencing my system on regenerated power.  It was frustratingly variable and usually struck me as harsh and unfocused.  Getting regenerated power back in my system was a huge relief.

Overall, PS Audio was/is a dream to deal with, and you may find a unit in the P3/P5/P10 series or the newer P12/P15/P20 series to be indispensable.

Holy cow!!! that things expensive.... You guys got too much free $$$$.
a pure sinewave UPS with an external THD and scope digital analyzer and protection from loss of power is like 1/2 that cost. the many utility transformers and line losses are irrelevent to your final load after the UPS also with better than 1 volt regulation. and you can run 5-7000 watts not only 2000. IM in the wrong business... LOL.
If a digital bigscreen is improving from a line feed correction something else is wrong with your system. sorry. maybe if things were still analog you would have a excuse.
I say do as you with its your money..
the intergrated scope and analyzer is calibrated to whos and what standards- NIST-MIl Std. with what traceability????

I have used PS Audio Products since the 1980's so, yes, I drank the koolaid.  That said it is a wonderful company.  I currently own the P-10, a P-5 and a P-3.  Like others my P-10 runs everything on my system except the subs.
The sound is cleaner, blacker and more detailed.  One benefit of power gen that is not often mentioned is the significant improvement to the picture quality to my big screen TV.
PS Audio recently upgraded all their models, so you might find a good deal on a used P-10 or P-5.  If you want a good deal on a new model visit https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/ps-audio.  Good Luck 

The howl it made trying to handle a plasma TV drove me crazy especially considering that the PS Audio tech staff said there was nothing wrong with it.  

switching power supplies dont like driving other swithcing PS cause the load changes inductance and capacitance so much depending on the varing Load. they like constant impeadances  like a load resistor across the output.. like driving difficult computer systems.
well known in the Server world look at the huge inductors on the main feedsw to smooth out the ride.

Tubes work best on pure DC!! the electrons and such know their valance bands and holes to jump or get pushed into amplifying fronm the filiment
source.   LOL.   AC is just a more convient source of power in the home now. Ok OK the motors may need 60hz Synch but nowadays most all run DC PWM anyway. the physist in me had to let loose on you. sorry.

@bazza You said:  " You should remember that sinewave is the only safe mode for tube equipment ".  Upon what is your statement based?

With respect to all of the posts before mine, I'll try not to restate other observations.
I started with a P300 for my 2 channel system and then purchased a Power Plant Premier for my home theater system.  The howl it made trying to handle a plasma TV drove me crazy especially considering that the PS Audio tech staff said there was nothing wrong with it.  Finally I was able to get a response from Paul McGowan who admitted that the PPP was not able to properly handle the load from a plasma TV.  I then bought a Pure Power regenerator (made in Ontario Canada) that handled the home theater system with ease so I bought another one for my 2 channel system.  Turned out that my tube equipment did not care for the class D based product and started to make uncontrollable squealing noises.  I then fell under Paul's spell again and bought a P10.  You should remember that sinewave is the only safe mode for tube equipment and it basically is an amp so the better the power cord, the better the sound.

PS Audio is a great customer-focused company, and their regenerators are a good investment. I use different models on my three systems (home office, AV, and high-end audio. I am delighted.

By using 50% or over will increase all harmonics and output stability,
see design specs used for all critical power systems. it can be shown in the math-do it and see, thats why Mil spec calls for 3 times rated load capacity. use that for your feed and enjoy improved power signal

Also please use Power Factor correction Caps on your Listening area power ,cause all the X formers cause a bad phase shift in input voltage otherwise. a few 100 mfd caps across 120v line for every 1000watts is good. or go to 3 phase as Vrms beats the .707 instantenuous value

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/12124.png&imgrefurl...

my point is that there are tried and true standard ways of fixing up all your power problems and therefore your resultant sound without giving into the marketing hype of regerative sales at like 1/4 the cost.
IE- pro studio recording desgns.
Heck just going to balanced/isolated ground inputs can bring noise floor up 10 fold at little cost. to you.

@sadono

I did try the P10 with a 30 day return option, and it stayed in my system.  I will likely also demo the P20, given the word of mouth from others that have upgraded on this path.  I can hear for myself and decide if it improves things and if it is worth the scratch.

PS Audio is actually quite good about promoting home trials to make sure you like what you are buying.

All AC regenerators have an amp inside that needs time to warm up before sounding great.

I hate warm up sonic changes, and use Chang LightSpeed line filters, and never went back to a AC regenerator.

The Chang sounds great with no coil voltage lag, or current limiting, common to other conditioners.

@hifiman5 —Oh, OK; thanks. Actually, I was wondering what anybody who owned a harmonic distortion analyzer would be doing on a forum site such as this one—but that's a whole 'nother can of beans. Amen.

has anyone ran a comparison of the signal on a real digital scope vs what the unit is telling you?? The units that i had seen calculated THD and the sinewave for the readout with software but did not actually measure said aspects live online.I know this because i have scopes and THD analyzers on line at all times. ps Just bought another THD unit today. the frequency chop in the AC oscillator part has shown noisier than that output of a good UPS and a IGBT AC drive. too many high order harmonics. 
again I say run your stuff on DC battery power and compare.
just about every componet converts the AC plug into dc later anyway,
this is the next phase of top line audio equipt.
Hint-the military does this for many critical instruments and not for fear of loosing power. For finite noiseless signals and NO ground loops ever.

@vtvmtodvm
The P5 display window shows the amount of incoming THD and outgoing.  It tells you what percentage of the P5's capability you are using as well.  In that way you can tell if you are unduly taxing the unit.  In my case I appear to be in good shape as I am using only 30%.  By pushing once on the display's touchscreen you can see the incoming sine wave, push again for a visual display of incoming distortion on that wave and one more tap gets you the outgoing sine wave.  

Paul McGowan has been a believer in power regeneration for a very long time.  It just took time to develop the technology to the point where it is now.  It's been an interesting journey for those of us who've been riding that train for some time!

If you want to be battery powered, and truly off the grid, Stromtank is another option for a regenerator, if you have deep pockets.

I feel regenerators make theoretical sense, but in actual practice, are flawed. Firstly, the DC to AC conversion induces noise. Secondly, they usually do not deal with the noise generated by the devices. And the list goes on...

Paul McGowan, of PS Audio, stated on his forum, "Power Plants can’t and don’t affect ground." https://forum.psaudio.com/t/new-directstream-p12/5770/74

I would guess this is why the PS Audio Power Plant owners are still hearing a difference with the time of listening. All of the garbage polluting the ground is likely entering your components.

Prospective customers should audition for themselves, whether in-store, or through a return policy.

@hifiman5 —Hi, I'm really curious. How did you determine that your power line THD = 1.7%? How did you measure this? What instrument(s)?
Please advise, and thanks for guidance.

Forgot to mention there are also a tubed linestage and tubed phonostage (both Aesthetix) connected to the regenerators.

I have owned many generations of the PS Power Plants. They are well worth the money.   here is my review on the new P15.  https://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-power-plant-15/#tab-reviewshttp://

I was an early adopter of the PS Audio P300 and ended up with two of them because they made an astonishing sonic improvement in my source gear and preamp..  But they couldn't handle any power amp I owned (I know, these are supposed to sound better into the wall). 

 I have a TON of source gear -- 2 turntables, 3 R2R decks, CD/SACD player with separate tubed PS, cassette deck, tuner --and now have both a P10 and P5.  I tried the power amps (845 SET monoblocks) directly into the wall for comparison. Nope.  Sound better to me into the regenerators.  I wouldn't be without them.  Plus you get superb service and support from PSAudio.

I have a Torus AVR16 and very happy with it.

You also could try the Accuphase PS 1230  or the little PS530.

A friend of mine has one for years and it’s been the endgame for him

$7500 for a P15 is too much for me.  I’ll decide to be happy with what I have.

"Like anything audio, the cost is not equal to the improvement" - - so true, Elizabeth!  You have to have been born with a pretty funny itch in your brain to spend like we do, but who's to judge what brings joy to one's soul?

hifiman,

Sorry if you think I'm angry. It's a matter of haste.  All contribuitions are wellcome. 
But somethimes the discussion goes so far from the topics that the objectivity is lost.
If you observe, this is the third time I ask about.
And I need a consistent feedback for an eventual decision, nothing more.

Thanks

OP

Do you think yelling will help?

I AM WAITING FOR YOUR HELP YET.

THANKS

read link- see how much your wife drying her hair dupes your sound power supply and see how much JUST an isolation x former helps.

http://www.sacthailand.com/transformer_blitz.html 

I have, but they were early ones in 90s. sorry for not updating my tear downs in 25 years. Im betting they are similar to the VFDs inverters starting with rectified filtered DC sourceed from isolated ac input. but prove me wrong and post the schematic if its not pripotary.
ill build one for cheap. some 2n3055s  are always good.
 I need a good physics discussion with a PHd in DC ion fields please PM me for an offline talk.
thanks
 

hemigreg

A regenerator is really a fanceyIsolation transformer with extra filters on in and outs nothing more. sorry vendor!!

That's completely false. You might want to open one up sometime, or study a schematic.

Im currently working with one of NYs prominent Brain Neuralogists on stimilation of serotonin,dopamine,norepiephrimn with magnetic and RF and audio signals modulated upon music that the patient "likes" and it proves to work with 73% double bling exp.
im also using this to solve opoid addition by blocking the mu receptors like the drugs work. some major chemical details there that i wont getinto here. and lots of ion electrical excitation too. rememer every thing got a resonant freq(smile) got to love 432hsz.
anyway A regenerator is really a fanceyIsolation transformer with extra filters on in and outs nothing more. sorry vendor!!
read my link for audio physics for some good stuff.
Look at your signal on a good scope.
and nightime is when the line wave gets a bit cleaner cause most of the noise inducing motors and swithced supplies and not getting used.
do the math, the inducatance also of  old light bulbs tungsten -used to filter out some high freq line noise but with all the CFL and LED bulbs they are no longer in your house to be unintended RF filters/bypass loads.
I get into it on a regular basis with my local utility for the heck of it about all their "noise" even though i got it filtered-its just fun to be a pain in the butt for them and keep them honest

I just downloaded one. Thanks

I thank you all, and now specially to "hemigreg", who brings us a very important theme with several comprehensivenesses, of great relevance in which I very much believe.
But I think that my solution, at this moment, involves  cost and practicality of application.
An then I ask you : 

Where can I find good audio stores in New York City, or others cities where I can find  trustworthy used AC regenerators ???

blueranger

...  About bad electricity. I downloaded one of the free apps for the measurement. I'm of electromagnetic radiation ... I got it to measure the electronic field on a tape head to see if. It needed demagnetized but couldn't find anything ...

You need to use a magnetometer to measure that.

They have already stumbled accross the anti-depressive effects of a brain MRI scan!!

Your fine running tube equipment, tape decks, turntables and electric trains for the matter on a PS Audio unit. Just don't put it on any of the wave options and keep it on 60 hz. 
  About bad electricity. I downloaded one of the free apps for the measurement. I'm of electromagnetic radiation. It went way into the red placing it near a motorola walkie talkie. Same thing happened near a hairdryer. I got it to measure the electronic field on a tape head to see if. It needed demagnetized but couldn't find anything. All the ill effects of electricity is a new frontier. Imagine if used properly in a different way it could also heal!