Sounds great Mitch2. Keep us updated on your progress
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,487 responses Add your response
Wow, what a treat. Finally got to Matt's house (thanks Sam for driving)! Wonderful room adn system guys. It was a true treat for a guy like me to enjoy 'guy' time with two close friends and also listen to a serious system. Got to enjoy time with the Lampy and then his Light Harmonic. Changing to that Crystal interconnect put the soundstage in better position and just allowed the music to flow much freer. We talk about cables and who difference they make. For those doubters you need to go to Matt's house to listen. If you don't think even a basic interconnect will make a difference, then I can't take your thoughts seriously anymore, lol. It was a true component upgrade. It gave it a soundstage that the other didn't really have. I get that when I went up in the Audioquest line and have heard similar with other cables. Not all cables in someone's line will be great and price isn't always the factor. Silver is HARD to work with (Steve will attest to that I'm sure) and most don't do it correctly. When it's done right it's a holy cow moment for teh whole system. I thought the Lampy was nice sounding. Not my cuppa, but tube guys seem to have a blast with it and it's a pretty box to boot. Matt's Davinci took the system to level's above to my ears. That takes nothing way from the Lampy. I don't know which one it was, nor the cost, but the Davinci lists for much more I'd think. My biggest take away is that I can't wait to get my www.thememoryplayer.com. I heard it in two systems yesterday and the last one was with Rockport Lyra's, the large Solution amps and the Behold preamp. It has the Telos grounding system throughout and the Enklein power cables into the Absolair (Turkey) distributed power boxes. Heck, the master tapes playing on the modded and rebuilt Apex tape deck was SICK. Also I enjoyed that Kronos TT set up. What a great day that turned out to be and the brotherhood of Matt and Sam was the main part of the day. It was the Federation of the Jewish Audiophile Brotherhood! ;). |
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*** Lampizator Big 7, gen 6 review *** Ok. So I was treated to a taste of the Lampizator Big 7 generation 6 tube DAC. I had heard a generation 1, and owned a generation 1 Big 6. To say this is a different beast entirely is an understatement!!! The first iterations were garage built, tube sounding, sort of big and warm and mushy. They offered signs of,” I’m gonna get better.... You just watch and see!” Well I did watch and see, with the current generation of Big 7, a super terrific Golden Gate, and now the Pacific I think these guys have established themselves and are going the distance! The case is beautifully built and wiring matches that level of craftsmanship. Detail oriented construction. Switches, plug receptacles and layout on the back are well thought out, stable and hold cables securely. I was a bit surprised at how light it was. With the size of the case, I expected it to be heavier. There is a knob on the back to select between different drive tubes and it’s click is secure and the indicator points directly at the proper label; no question as to what setting it’s on, and no knob jiggling. My version was single ended only. There is no sign of garage built anymore. This is a “manufactured” product. I was given a tasting of tubes but was motivated towards the Kronzilla 242’s and a 274b Chinese rectifier tube. After much playing I agreed these were the best of what they sent. As I learned later on, I think a better 274b would have made a difference, but thats ok. I’ll expand on that in the listening comments. I am at the point where my expectations for a DAC are not low. In fact, I’m quite demanding to be honest. My current references are world class and I have had many many through my doors. So...... As it was single ended I can’t comment on a direct apples to apples comparison. I don’t have an identical rca interconnect to my xlr; something I will have to rectify. I did use the same power cord. I will say that for a tube DAC the level of resolution and accuracy was impressive. I believe the into to be around $10k based on tubes and outputs. And I found its performance overall comparable to solid state dacs in the same price range. If you want the opportunity to adjust flavor by rolling tubes, this dac is a no brainer! Base was deep and taught, but there was a transitional mid to low base bloom that gave the music a sense of intimacy and warmth that some would definitely consider coloration. Mids and up were correct and engaging. No sign of ringing, sibilants, or exaggerated high frequencies made the performance a long listening session pleasure. I would not call it a detail monster, but what it provided was pleasurable and I never felt it lacking in that regards. Trailing edges were sustained but not infinitely; Ive heard better at this price but nothing to complain about. Dynamics were punchy and provided impact and scale, while the DAC portrayed a proper sense of pace and rhythm overall. As I listened more, I felt it’s greatest flaw was that it was slow. Leading edges took too long and I felt like I was waiting for the music, if that makes sense. I wondered if that was a byproduct of the quality of the 274b rectifier tube; and Fred (the importer) agreed it may be contributing. I did not have the tube or opportunity to try a better 274b, but I sincerely believe it would be better with better rectification. It could be the power supply as well, or even a mismatch between my Shunyata power cord and the Lampy power supply. Trial and error would tell, but I didn’t have that opportunity. The DAC just left and I truly look foreword to Fred visiting in a few weeks with a Pacific DAC. he’s just got to get over his muscle tear. That’s what we old guys get for trying to prove ourselves to our young kids on Fathers Day! We push ourselves, they still win; and we hurt ourselves. Time to pass the baton Fred. Hope you fee better soon. Motrin and heat packs. And listen to some of that great Lampy gear you have!!! |
audiolabyrinth. There are a ton of reviews online in concern of your question. You can also visit the PSA forums for more detailed viewpoints on the DS and DMP. I own them both and they do everything I expect good digital to do.I could afford a more expensive front end...but do not see the need in doing so. Redbook playback is superb and Sacd is the best I have ever heard. |
Hi guys. I have not heard a recent iteration of the PS Audio software based DAC. I was not blown away by the version I heard which was several years ago, but I have spoken to people whose ears I trust say that the newer versions are significantly better. And the transport is excellent for the money; so if you need a spinner it’s a no brainer. They are a solid solid company with good customer support and well built product. It’s also a product that has a good reputation and if/when you want to upgrade you will be able to sell it here without issue (with an obvious $$$ loss). I also believe they have have a VERY fair audition period. So the risk is negligible. |
Ricred1- I endeavor to compare apples to apples and try to give all the information I can. You absolutely need to keep price levels in mind and not compare a $4k DAC to a $14k DAC. There are a few excellent performers in each price range. I have heard enough to know there really is no such thing as a “giant killer,” so don’t be fooled. There is no $4k DAC that outperforms the best of the $10k region. There are great $4k dacs that sound better then bad $12k dacs. But no one is going to buy a bad $12k DAC unless it offers something specific that they want. There are great dacs at every price point. We are very lucky. |
Matt, hopefully you will end up coming across the Playback Designs Dream Series line. Andreas Koch has quite a resume and was involved in getting PS Audio's engineer into FPGA. The Playback Designs MPS-5 (flagship SACD player) came to market about 10 years ago, but the firmware has been updated numerous times. Additionally, a fully upgraded MPS-5 includes an improved clock generator. I'm of the impression, and not my own personal observation, that the fully upgraded MPS-5 will beat the Merlot DAC. One wouldn't be reaching too far to believe that it may beat the latest DirectStream. The Dream Series DAC will have MSRP $22,000. Matching SACD transport $15,000. Would be interesting to get your impressions compared with ultra hi-end units you've enjoyed! |
Matt said "Ricred1- I endeavor to compare apples to apples and try to give all the information I can. You absolutely need to keep price levels in mind and not compare a $4k DAC to a $14k DAC. There are a few excellent performers in each price range. I have heard enough to know there really is no such thing as a “giant killer,” so don’t be fooled. There is no $4k DAC that outperforms the best of the $10k region. There are great $4k dacs that sound better then bad $12k dacs. But no one is going to buy a bad $12k DAC unless it offers something specific that they want. There are great dacs at every price point. We are very lucky." Who says folks won't buy that crappy 12k DAC? Many will buy on price or because someone on the internet told them how great it is (someone who works for said company, lol ;) )....LOL... sorry, I couldn't help it. ha. Back to the regularly scheduled program. Also, I was VERY impressed by Matt's DAC and The Music Server. What a pair those are. I have another very close friend who owns both and says the same thing. It's a great reference and if someone comes up with the next mouse trap that beats those two, then WOW...are we all lucky. |
Hi mattnshilp, Thankyou for your post on my behalf, I apologize to all here by not getting back here sooner, I have been building a second system, I put a lot of my building experience into this, no room for mistakes and sale off and loose money! here is where I'm at, magico q3 speaker's which I really don't like, but do not hate them to sale them, so, I put my self up to the challenge to make these speaker's sing like no other q3 speaker's, so I got the New Luxman L-509X integrated amplifier, Tara Lab's muse speaker cable's and interconnect's, Tara Lab's cobalt power cord, I moved the furutech gtx-Rhodium duplex receptacle's to this system, I have the NCF furutech version receptacle's on the main system. So I am now pulling the trigger on the ps audio direct stream memory dac and matching transport, the cool thing here is the speaker's are 4 ohms, without the new digital, this sounds phenomenal, I have close to 200 hrs burn in, and the cable's are still getting better, great match for magico!, I believe this is a fix for the speaker's, @ aolmrd1241, Currious, may I ask what you are usein for the digital HDMI cable? |
aolmrd1241, That HDMI cable is exactly what I am leaning towards, have you auditioned any other cable for this set?, the nordost Valhalla 2 HDMI cable is interesting too, I wonder if Crystal cable makes the absolute dream in HDMI?, can you give some impression's on how the wireworld platinum starlight 7 sound's?, Thankyou for your help. |
Audiolabyrinth....I cut and pasted my response from someone else who asked my opinion on the PS Audio forums awhile back.I tried a couple PSA cables and did not care for them. So I figured with all the great reviews,I would try the platinum 7. I loved it from the getgo and have never looked back. “For my system and my tastes, the WW just sounds right. There are no frequency's that stand out one over the other to draw attention to the listening experience, ie; pulling you away from the enjoyment of the music at hand. The body and structure of a good/great recording holds up very,very well. This cable has a wonderful natural/organic characteristic to it...Just right imo. Details of the bass,mid and treble are killer and with that detail comes the amazing ability to see deeper into a mix with zero etch or bloat that will grow fatiguing after a while. This is a silver wire..but totally lacking in the silver brightness that many dislike. With that being said…the WW does require some run in time out of the box. The attributes of silver wire [some brightness] do come through in the initial phase of listening, but give it time and things do settle in superbly if I do say so myself. I could not change the WW if I wanted to…its that good! And this coming from a hdmi skeptic before hearing and ultimately believing that hdmi cables do make a huge difference… as much as any other cable in your system., maybe even more so.” |
I’ve been following this thread from the beginning and finally thought to add my 2 cents worth . Audiolabyrinth I had owed the PS Audio Direct stream dac senior along with its partner the Direct stream player which finally convinced me leave vinyl . I want to mention my experience with trying I2s HDMI cables , the supplied PS Audio cable that came with the Direct stream player was quite good and thought to try the cable in my ModWright Oppe 205 for a Rock concert event and plug in a generic HDMI cable I purchased from BlueJeancable.com that was being used in my video gear . What a surprise, how is it that a $18.00 cable perform so well with the PS Audio components, my favourite music sounded a tad better , could it be a component and cable burn in issue as the PS Audio components were purchased new ,... Further investigation I found the speaking human voice sounded more human , more realistic then I’ve heard ever before from these old Mark Levinson and Chesky CDs I use sometimes for evaluating . Interesting with further listening over a period of time switching back and forth with PS Audios .supplied I2s cable proved the $18.00 cables merits . Occasionally speaking with other owners of PS Audio components I never brought this cable comparison up during any conversations however I did end up purchasing the WireWorld Platinum Starlight HDMI cable testimonials from others . Months later I thought to try that cheap $18.00 cable against one of the very best ,. The $18.00 cable held its own very well and past along everything the Starlight did however I prefer this $18.00 Tartan cable for its fuller more even sound . Just like most here I’ve burnt through piles of money chasing better sound however this is just one little thing you can easily check out for yourself purchased from Bluejeancables.com Tartan cable Type CL2 Shielded 28AWG 20276 ,. |
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Which post was removed? What happened? LOL...Was the bluejeans post removed because it looked like an ad? I cna't keep up, lol. In any case I have enjoyed the Diamond cable from Audioquest, the WW cables (they just make great digital cables (I own their optical one and it's astounding for an optical cable), Steve Nuggents USB cable, the Light Harmonic Matt has is cool and great sounding too. There are lot's of choices, but it's hard to go wrong with the WireWorld cables on digital transmission. I know many who love them. It's teh only non Audioquest cable that's in my system right now. |
In the early 2000s to 2007 or so, SimAudio was still making high end CDPs that could cull every detail out of a paltry 16/44 CD. I bought some Sim gear around that time, all quality. I mean, they still offer a 20 year warranty. NOBODY else does that TMK. e.g. the Sim SuperNova CDP, still relevant after all these years. |
This was an extremely good sounding SimAudio cdp, that used R2R ladder dacs and had a separate power supply, hard to get anything today that can do Redbook that well. http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/414643-simaudio_moon_eclipse_cd_mint.jpg SIMAUDIO MOON ECLIPSE 4 x PCM1704-K dacs DF1704 – PMD100 Philips CD-Pro 2 (VAU1254) Cheers George |
I'm very familiar with that cup and to my ear, it was like most of the Sim Audio gear. It's fatiguing to me as well as a few others I'm close with. It doesn't matter what type of dac design George. There are good and bad on all sides and just because you say that it is hard to get anything better for Redbook today, is just a personal choice. You feel it is and that's great and I'm happy for you. To many of us it's not even close. disclaimer: I've owned both types of dac architecture and loved them both at the time I've owned them. |
It’s fatiguing to me as well as a few others I’m close with. It doesn’t matter what type of dac design George. I believe I was responding to 1graber2, unless I’m mistaken, but then anything can get some bristling, like they have a "word" trigger, R2R perhaps??? And to describe the SIMAUDIO MOON ECLIPSE as fatiguing is ......well? All I can say is go and have another listen. Cheers George |
Matt - This is Dave - your neighbor Mike's friend.... A few weeks ago you asked for recommendations for 5 songs used to test DACs - here are 6 that I use.... #1 Four Until Late (Cream - Those Were The Days)#2 Rock My Plimsoul (Jeff Beck - Truth)#3 All Of You (Bill Evans - Solar)#4 Who Knows - (Jimi Hendrix - Band of Gypsys)#5 Maggot Brain - (Funkadelic - Maggot Brain) #6 Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major - (Janos Starker - Suites for Solo Cello) Every cellist plays that last one, but no one plays it like Starker did...And ignore the first 30 seconds of #5. Maybe not to your taste, but I'm listening for something specific in each of these songs. I'm using a heavily modded Audio Note DAC. Dave |
Hey Dave. Mikes spoken highly of your system!!! Could you throw your favorites on a CD or thumb drive and send to Mike? That’d be awesome! You HAVE to hear his Pipedreams with the new Merrill 118 monoblocks and Christine pre-amp!!! Merrill and I spent 2 hours fine tuning his speaker position and his crossover adjustments. It was transformational!!! With the 118 amps, his room is exceptional!!! Like sit and listen all day long exceptional!! Glad to meet you and look forward to your input. Please describe your DAC and mod’s. |
Matt, Yes, I'll get a copy of them to Mike. He raved about the new gear and I can't wait to hear it. My DAC started off as an Audio Note Kit. At the time it was their highest, a 4.1LE. AD1865 R2R chipAudio Note C core output transformersAudio Note copper foil capacitorsBlack Gate electrolytic caps I built it up and used it unchanged for about 1 year. Then I read about possible mods and I started experimenting. Over the last 3-4 years, I've changed a lot: I've upgraded the output and I/V transformers to those in an Audio Note (finished product) DAC5 Special. The power supply side is now lifted from an Audio Note M8 preamp. I upgraded the capacitors to Jensen silver foil and now there are Black Gate caps in every possible location And the most recent mod is really cool. Since this is a tube DAC, I turn it off every night. The new mod powers the digital board even when the power is switched off. So the digital board is always powered. I did this back in July. When the DAC is on the power light is red - when it is "off" the power light switches to amber. I did each of these mods at different times and I waited a few months to make sure I liked the results. It started at about $3,800 and now I'm probably close to $10k after all the mods. When I brought it to Mike's, we both thought it held up well against his EMM DA2. When I was in high school I remember reading an article in Road & Track about a guy in Germany that modded an early 80s VW Rabbit with Porsche suspension parts and engine from a 928S. Then he'd drive around on the autobahn and mess with people in his "Rabbit". If feel like this is what I have now. It is just an ugly black box, but it sure does sound great. I'll bring it next time I come over to Mike's... Dave |
@ mattnshilp Hello It took me more than 10 hours to go through your threads. But I enjoyed it very much. Any update? May I ask you what is your current Dac? Have you had a chance to audition DCS Rossini? If so, what is your opinion? Have you heard MSB Technology Platinum DAC IV? Used MSB Technology Platinum DAC IV is on sale at good price and I got temptation to get it? thanks in advance Thomas |
I've heard the new top of the line MSB and thought it was very good. I would have needed to spend more time with it to tell more, but it has promise. Just very expensive. I have heard the newest Rossini two weeks ago (is the brand new one out? If so, this was it. I didn't ask if it was the brand new one as I was auditioning the new Boulder amp so didn't care). It was very good, but like most of the DCS digital, it's a bit sterile for my ears. Gobs of detail and it is very 'fast'. It always leaves me a tad cold in the mids as do many digital products. At this level you are talking about shade differences. Folks will have their own flavors they like better. I personally need to get my new DAC/Server burned in, but so far on 24/192 as well as 32/384 all in WAV, it is going to be a contender as a ultra high end DAC. It's a brand new design by Sam Laufer's company. Mine is installed in my Memory Player. It uses two signal tubes and dual AK boards for proper balanced design. Very little filtering. I'm going to learn more about it technically, but don't care as I want it to burn in before I make a real evaluation. We are also waiting on the Stealth bypass caps for it so the sound will change again and hopefully for the better. I'll keep you all posted, but I was concerned about the DAC in the MP, but this brand new design is just sick and it's the first one they've made so far. |