To all readers - I found some scuba diver vinyl covered lead weights in 1,2,3,4 and 5 pound sizes.
Opinions on what size to buy, and how many (thinking 3 or 4).
Or is there a more audiophile appropriate solution that also helps treat EMI/RFI, emits a tachyon particle deflector shield and increases my Midi-Chlorian count?
I figure they are good to have in my box of accessories. And everyone needs more Midi-Chlorians!!! |
Alex- Are the fuses top tier audiophile grade? Do you think upgrading is worthwhile? I welcome your input and comments as I did Steve during my eval of the ODSE.
I do think some weight on top might help with resonance. The feet seamed appropriate, although I was blown away at the improvement upper tier Stillpoints made on my amps!!!
This goes back to my tweak/tube roll vs no tweak issue.
I am trying to compare stock kits to stock kits, just to keep things simpler. The very valid argument is that practically no piece of equipment couldn't benefit from some tweaking/tube rolling and that unless I make every effort to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of each unit I am not giving it a fair chance to win. My answer was and is that the stock unit should perform as intended by its designer as sold. It would make a comparison nearly impossible. My ODSE is stock and sensational!! Could a tube rolled, super tweaked Lampy Big 7 sound better then my stock ODSE? Maybe. But I don't want to go to the Dark Side, or forever will it dominate my obsessive compulsive need to continuously tweak and roll.
I have accessorized with power conditioners and cables, top tier interconnects and speaker wire, and a great rack. My biggest tweak needs to be a better room.
That all said, a weight of some kind on top of the DSD-S to help control resonance is easy and a great suggestion and I will try it. |
I see the APL has two fuses......changing these to better ones (unless it comes with seriously good fuses) can raise the sound level considerably. Also damping the lid with weight and different kinds of feet/mounting can make a world of difference as well....Sometimes removing the lid opens up the sound. How about a few WA Quantum stickers on the DAC chip and power supply caps?...works for me (you can remove them and reuse them...they do no damage). If there are undamped heatsinks inside then damping them with EAR SD40AL will make the unit way more palpable and real. It takes time to get the best out of a component. I know, I am just too tweaky....hey...I like it! |
Bill-K : my pleasure. I was getting a bit fried by the end of my initial rounds. But with a nice break, I'm enjoying it again. By typing these, it really helps me to organize my thoughts and create the most objective findings I can.
I look forward to next week. And I really look forward to getting my ODSE.
I'll keep all posted.
I encourage Steve from Empirical to report on some of his upcoming upgrades. I don't want to say anything as I'm sure I'd screw up the technical stuff. |
Matt,
Thank you for a nice initial write up, and for nice suggestions about the finalized packaging and looks!
Few things, if I may:
1. The unit was double-boxed, but I've asked my brother to unpack it so you can see it with the white printed box. Maybe you noticed that there was no shipping labels or any such marks on the box.
2. We have sleeves coming up for covering the entire unit with the company logo on them, but they did not arrive on time, sorry about that.
3. The foam pieces that hold the two sides of the DSD-S are tested well, so there will be no damage of the unit, even if you throw it UPS style from 3 meters above ground. :-) Of, course, it is always possible to add more foam so it looks even more secure, this is not a problem.
4. Honestly, I find it very surprising that the DSD-S sounded harsh on the top in your system. Maybe it is a good idea to try it with different cables, hopefully not Silver, and preferably non-shielded (or lightly shielded). Experiments with the RCA and XLR outputs are desirable, as well as trying the DSD-S direct to your amplifiers. The other thing is alternating between DSD64 and DSD128 modes and see which one you like better. As I've mentioned in the instructions, DSD128 is cleaner, while DSD64 is more rounded, that can be helpful with some bright recordings, for example. Finally, this DSD-S has barely 200 hours on it, so it may need more, especially after being shipped overseas and not played for several days, as you pointed out already.
I find your comments very valuable, thanks again!
Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi
|
Matt, thanks for your very detailed first impressions! Not many posters would take the time to be as thorough as you are. I hope that you can still enjoy the process, since shootouts like this can often be tedious and somewhat frustrating. |
UPDATE : APL DSD-S in in the house.
Please be aware that I had completed my own personal shootout with the DAC's that I had originally listed to get my ideal Red Book CD quality PCM 16/44 sound.My final choice is the Empirical Audio Over Drive SE with USB Short block adapter. The two additional DAC's that have been brought up again and again and again are the Lampy Big 7 and the Aesthetix Romulus Signature DAC's. I am trying to get both in for audition. Although my budget no longer affords me the ability to purchase any additional DAC's to get them in for audition - it has to be a lend for listen/Audition scenario. That said, the Big 7 and Romulus Signature have HUGE followings who insist that my shootout can not be completed without auditioning both. To them I say that I am trying…
To all new readers, please go back and seek out my posts beginning with "UPDATE" to see my reviews and comparisons. If I just posted to continue a conversation or answer a question I did NOT start the post with "UPDATE". it's an easy way to search through the many pages and get the info and answers you may want. If you start at the beginning you will see my equipment and process of evaluation is consistent and I try to simply say it as I hear it. I can tell you that the input that the forum members has offered has been invaluable and for those truly looking to use this thread as a resource, read the whole thing…
Alex, of APL HiFi, approached me to listen to his DSD-S DAC as it was in my price range. I knew nothing of his line and have learned much about Alex and his product since then. He knows his stuff. I welcomed the audition as he offered to get the DAC to me and give me the time and luxury of enjoying it and posting my honest opinion here. Other then offering to get the DAC to me free of charge, I have not received any financial compensation nor offered a discount to purchase the DAC. As you will see, I will be honest and critical as I always am. So here it goes….
Alex's brother dropped the box off to me at my office, which was very kind of him. I did not get to meet him as I was busy that day, but the box appeared new and unopened when I examined it. It was appropriately thick cardboard and professionally labeled. I would like to have seen a serial # printed on the outside as well as a country of manufacturer. My assumption is that my unit was packaged as a normal production unit would be. If not, I encourage Alex to chime in. I was disappointed to see that the internal packaging was minimal with foam sleeve edges but nothing above or below the DAC. There was no double box, or fabric bag around the DAC itself. There was a think styrofoam sheet sort of pushed around the DAC. I would put it on par with packaging for a $350- Sony receiver. For an $8K'sih DAC, I think he needs to take his packaging to the next level; especially if it's making a transatlantic trip to get to you. That said, it was unscathed and faired the trip perfectly. But I would have been disappointed with the packaging if I just shelled out $8K for this DAC.
Alex told me an instruction manual was not completed yet and would not be included. He emailed me all I needed to know. So I can't comment on it's instructions and how well they are written. His Email was concise, well written, and the unit is easy for anyone familiar with a DAC to use. So no complaints. He also included a power cord and a USB cable which I will hold off on using until I am done with my comparison. I try to keep everything else equal to make comparisons. Then add the extra stuff to see how it sounds different/better. He also gave me some music to listen to, which I will upload this week. He suggested I try Audirvana Software as he felt it sounded better. I will.
Although I was not enthralled with the packaging, the unit was in pristine condition and was clearly brand new. The remote is a small, silver metal rectangle that feels every solid, is very well laid out, has very responsive buttons that feel great under the thumb and worked without issue. I really like it. You need to unscrew the remote to replace the batteries; a hassle but no big deal really.
The unit itself is a black chassis with a silver faceplate. Very nicely put together and looks solid and well built. It doesn't have the heft of the Rowland Aeris but is clearly a solid unit representing its price. A beautiful logo is on top and on the faceplate and the faceplate is nicely shaped and well secured. The LCD is not great the latest and greatest, but it is functional and effective. Volume, DSD settings (DSD64 or DSD128 - to be explained in a bit), source input and bit rate are shown. The buttons on the front are simple and concise. Dimming switch for the LCD, volume up/down, power/standby and a power switch in back above the PC 15 amp socket. I liked the layout and was fine with the LCD. Was it the beautiful screen the Direct Stream had? No. But there's clearly money put into the right places and non wasted; I like that. Similar to my ODSE in theory. K.I.S.S.
The back is well laid out. The XLR, RCA, USB plugs are very secure and the PC socket was far enough from the power switch to allow hefty PC thickness without getting in the way. Overall, the unit reminded me of a Pass Labs pre-amp I had recently seen. I think that's a complement. Build quality is as expected for this level piece of equipment as are the buttons, plugs, feet and design. Nothing to complain about. It's not the jeweled finish, single block aluminum Bugatti that the Rowland Aeris was, but I felt that I paid for bling with the Aeris where the DSD-S makes me feel like the money went to the right place. That said, there is something to be said for the aluminum blocks vibration dampening; but the DSD-S is no light weight and is solidly constructed and well damped. When I tap on my Rowland Criterion pre-amp I hear a solid thud. When I tap on the DSD-S, I do hear a hollow tap. But no vibration or resonance. Take that for what it is. On a solid rack (like mine) I don't think it makes a huge difference. But at this level, tiny differences add up…
When I hooked it up and plugged it all in, it turned on without issue and went into its warm up mode. This took about a minute or so and then it easily and instantly linked to my computer without issue. No software needed for my Mac Mini. I am currently using Amarra and it worked without issue. I immediately got music out and sat down for a quick, initial listen.
The unit came with 300 hours on it. I will burn it in for an additional week for good measure. So final listening impressions next week.
I was impressed on first listen. Without going into any specifics, it did exactly what it is supposed to do for a unit of this caliber. The high frequencies were a but harsh at times (which surprised me) but I think that some burn in will remove that. Soundstage was wide and appropriate, and imaging put it all where it's supposed to be. Lows were low and impactful. I was pulled from review mode to music magic on 4 of the 5 songs I listened to. To me, thats a complement and bodes well for what to expect.
My ODSE should be here any day. Once that's here it will need a few weeks of burn in to really get where it should. Then I will compare and contrast. But next Wednesday will give me time to listen to the DSD-S and give true impressions of it's abilities.
Thats all for now.
'fin |
Mrd1241 - Empirical Audio ODSE is my current reference.
Audiolabyrinth - I am waiting for a call from John at Audio Connection regarding the Romulus Signature. Looking forward to hearing it, eventually.
Kana813 - Yes, look back. Read my posts starting with "UPDATE" to read the reviews and comparisons. I have been very consistent in how I report. |
"My PS Audio DirectStream has been returned (still waiting for my refund)."
Matt,
Did you post any comments on the DS? |
Update continued:
As another side note. I have heard nothing about the Aesthetic Romulus Signature, so I don't see that happening any time soon. And I am trying to convince the gentlemen in Northern Jersey to lend me his Lampy Big 7 for a few days so I can add that review to this shoutout. I think it might be sold though.... |
UPDATE:
My PS Audio DirectStream has been returned (still waiting for my refund).
My PS Audio Perfect Wave 2 is sold.
My Aeris is sold (pending funds).
I just, this morning, unpacked and hooked up the APL DSD-S that Alex was generous enough to lend me. I don't have time right now, but I will give an initial report in the next day or so. It only has 100 hours on it, and it just completed a trans-Atlantic flight. So it needs a lot more burn in time to give it a fair audition.
My personal ODSE is on its way with a Short Block USB filter. Hopefully arrive any day. I would like to burn in my new ODSE thoroughly as well to properly compare the two. Especially considering that my ODSE is my reference unit and what all else will be compared with. I am hoping Alex is willing for me to hold onto the DSD-S for a while to really give it a proper evaluation.
That's all for now.
As an interesting side note, this thread just passed 50,620 views. How cool is that?!?! |
No worries TBG. I have actually had nothing to report, so you filled a quiet gap nicely and I think we all learned a bit. Thank you. |
Matt, is this shoot-out over?, where is the Asthetixs Romulas or Pandora signature! |
To much thread with not enough time. So... what dac so far in the shootout sounds the best on 'standard resolution Redbook CD'? |
Mattnshilp, I'm sorry that my comment on the PureDac degenerated into this highjacking of the thread.
Aplihifi, I do now better understand why I prefer native DSD as I explained to Kana813 above.
I am soon to get a new server with two computers in it. One will only handle the music and the other all the other functions needed. It will also have no switching power supplies and no opamps.
I'm off this thread now. |
Kana813, while the tape is long, he does explain well and the guys in the audience asked good questions.
I now understand why I prefer native DSD to DOP. It is the computer being bothered to remove the header that is used to "fool" the computer or latency. |
Also looking forward to reading about your impressions! |
Looking forward to your impressions of Alex's DSD-S DAC! He is an extremely well versed engineer so my expectations are very high on it. |
Hi all.
The DSD-S arrived today at the office; thanks to Alex's brother as courier.
I will get it hooked up and cooking asap.
Review to follow. |
Tbg should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okG-pRzz1w4 |
Bill_k, to be honest, your posts were the reason why I tried again explaining to Tbg with more detail, hoping he will understand better what's going on.
It seems like many believe that DoP is some sort of DSD to PCM conversion that can be clearly discriminated as inferior compared to "native" DSD.
This, as we know, is not true as DoP=DSD. :-)
Thank you as well for trying to make things clear!
BTW, I do like your disclaimer! :-)
Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi |
Alex - I've tried to explain the same thing to Tbg, but apparently our words are falling on deaf ears. (That's just an expression that seems to apply in this case, and is not meant as any condemnation of Tbg's hearing acuity!) He is apparently convinced that DoP is not truly native DSD and cannot be swayed from that belief. I do appreciate your effort though, since I gave up several posts ago! |
Tbg,
I am sorry but which part of the word "same" you do not understand?
DoP and "native" DSD streaming are exact same thing, except that DoP is packed in PCM-like format. Once DoP is "unpacked" it turns out to native/real/pure DSD.
So there is no audio quality difference between that two.
Again, let's not confuse DoP with DSD converted to PCM.
There are few more things that you are welcome to share with your "other pro designers".
1. It is not exactly clear how the ESS Sabre DAC handles DSD, especially when it comes to attenuation. This is something that only ESS can clear up, if they want.
2. The German-made TheSycon ASIO driver for XMOS does support "native" DSD.
3. Your BMC PureDac does support DSD64 and double DSD128, probably in DoP format, though not specified on their specs.
4. JRiver MC19 can convert any PCM file to:
a) DoP at DSD64
b) DoP at double DSD128
c) native DSD stream at double DSD128
Bottom line, your current DAC operating at double DSD128 should sound the same as your BMC PureDac operating at double DoP/DSD128, which the JRiver MC19 supports as well.
If you still hear audio quality difference, it is because something else in the signal path is inferior or superior.
Hope this helps!
Best ,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi |
Aplhifi-usa, since I can hear a difference and prefer double DSD to DOP and am told by other pro designers that I should have expected this, I will continue to use double DSD and not use my BMC PureDac, at least in my main system. |
Bill_k, as I said I have compared DOP with native DSD, and the native is better. Tbg, please understand that DoP and DSD are both native/pure DSD. Sabre chip, the DSD goes through an entirely different part of the chip. I did listen to DOP for a long time and enjoyed it but moving the filters out well beyond anything I can hear or sense, it very beneficial This is true for most DACs that can process PCM and DSD. Again, DoP is DSD (after a simple decoding that does not affect the sound quality in any way) so you cannot apply the usual digital filters to DoP, just like you can do it with PCM. Also, please do not confuse DoP with DSD converted to PCM, it has nothing to do with it. DoP is DSD "encapsulated" in PCM frames, that's all. Hope this helps you understand better what DoP is - DSD over PCM=Pure DSD. Best wishes, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Matt, At this point, I wonder If you will ever get a signature Pandora or Romulas player here in this shoot out, I would call the Asthetixs company themselfs and by pass the store, I have had to do that before, they may be tring to fill a big order for the store, that will be a slow process, I believe if you explained to the designer of the asthetixs about your thread here, you likly would get one promply, It would be like dealing with Steve Nugent, cheers. |
Bill_k, as I said I have compared DOP with native DSD, and the native is better. Into the Sabre chip, the DSD goes through an entirely different part of the chip. I did listen to DOP for a long time and enjoyed it but moving the filters out well beyond anything I can hear or sense, it very beneficial. I have demonstrated what 44.1/16 versus double native DSD sounds like to others. It sounds like a different recording with much better microphones and mix.
All of this aside, I still think the BMC PureDac is exceptional. I know another manufacturer who could afford the very best who says he has it in the PureDac. |
Tbg, you CAN continue to use your BMC DAC to play double DSD! You just need to setup JRiver to output via DoP. Even though it then transmits the DSD data via PCM frames, it still IS the actual DSD that the DAC will then reproduce. |
Bill_k, I asked this of the pro guy who makes my music serverUSB PCM: 16...32bit; 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, 384kHz.
USB DSD: DSD64, DSD128. Is this PCM converted?
He responded, "It is DOP DSD over PCM NOT NATIVE DSD Its the DRIVER is the XMOS driver and XMOS driver that does not support NATIVE DSD."
So, yes it will play DSD128 but this is PCM not native DSD.
I do have the capability, thanks to my dac and JRiver MC19, to play either DSD128 or double native DSD. There is just more detail and sense of realism with the double DSD. Bass is more defined and located. I probably will not use the BMC any longer. |
Tbg - JRiver can output DSD128 as either a direct bitstream in native DSD format, or as DoP (DSD over PCM, which is still true DSD but transmitted in PCM frames.) In the specs for the BMC DAC given above, it doesn't state in which format it supports DSD. Once you find that out you need to setup JRiver accordingly and then the BMC DAC should be able to playback DSD128. |
Wisnon, my servet using JRiver MC19, can output in a large number for formats. Presently everything is output as double DSD in native DSD. Perhaps I misspoke as I had used the BMC only in 192/24 PCM coming from my old server.
Since I'm not really certain whether DSD 128 is PCM or native DSD, I will have to check. Perhaps you know. |
Yup, just confirmed it does do DSD128
http://bmc-audio.de/index.php/PureDAC-EN.html
Features:
Top-grade Digital/Analog Converter with Current Injection current-to-voltage (I/V) conversion
High-resolution asynchronous USB interface up to 32bit/384kHz
USB PCM: 16...32bit; 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192, 352.8, 384kHz.
USB DSD: DSD64, DSD128.
ASIO driver for Windows; Linux and Mac compatible
AES/EBU, coaxial and Toslink digital inputs
Balanced, reference-class headphone amplifier with digital/analog power convertion (DAPC), load-effect free (LEF) technology, a lateral MOSFET, a super-low impedance LEF output stage, and lossless Digital Intelligent Gain Management (DIGM) volume control
Balanced LEF, CI-compatible preamp that optionally operates in B.M.C. Mode, with DIGM and a vertically diffused metal oxide semiconductor (DMOS) and LEF-balanced output stage.
Separate volume controls for the line and headphone sections (the line volume position 59 represents a DAC standard output level)
Second-generation DIGM with optimized gain distribution between power amps and internal and DIGM volume levels
Optical B.M.C. Link for connecting with B.M.C. amps like the PureAmp
Remote Control
Top grade parts like MPP (conductive film polypropylene, non inductive) and balanced current capacitors, precision metal film resistors...
Massive and stylish extruded aluminum chassis
Dimensions: 14.37 x 4.06 x 12.91 inches, W/H/D (365 x 103 x 328 mm)
Weight: 11.9 lbs (5.4 kg)
Related Catalogues:
B.M.C. Audio Complete Catalogue, English (300dpi photos): Download |
Tbg, your system page is screwed up Spot welding for circuit boards. Please invent it |
Aplhifi, perhaps but I'm now using a music server with double DSD output from the dac. The BMC, at least cannot play this. Tbg, the DSD-S can surely play double DSD (DSD128) and the DSD-M can play quadruple DSD (DSD256) at 13.5MHz. However, as we discussed today with a respected reviewer, it is not the format (PCM or DSD) and it is not the rate that matters that much. Simply, it is all about implementation. :-) Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
I was told the PureDac was updated to play back DSD128..
Many DSD Dacs out ther can handle DSD128...the only prominents one that cant off the top of my head are the Benchmark 2 and the Meitner MA-1. |
Aplhifi, perhaps but I'm now using a music server with double DSD output from the dac. The BMC, at least cannot play this. |
Alex, your humor is killing me!, I enjoy a great laugh now and then, thankyou, you are about the 4th person that has said the same on this thread! |
Does anyone know about the Big 7 for sale now on the Gon?
What options is it missing? What's its retail?
You guys are killing me!!!
One of you needs to buy my Aeris (or find someone to buy it). That would free up the $$$ and I might consider trying the Big 7 and reporting.
He's pretty local. Maybe he would consider "renting" it to me for a month... |
Matt,
Enjoy your vacation.
Just to let you know that yesterday I heard the Big7 along with a Chord Hugo, DirectStream and MSB Platinum stach with Galaxy 2 cock upgrade and all I can say is Holeeeee Crap!
If curiousity kills the cat, lets sayou will need the 9 lives of a cat to stand a chance at survival. That beast is one smooth operator. the box is also the same size as the big6, but the 2 big EML 45 triodes to stick out a lot and look very cool.
As a DSD lover, i was shocked how close the PCM was to DSD on the Big7.
The Lampi-man deserves to take bow for his masterpiece. Loved the MSB stack too, but it was a tad bit starker/harder, though a tad bit more detalied too. Also cost about 3.5x as much too. |
Aplhifi, this is all true of the BMC PureDac for $1790 Tbg, if you say so. :-) Hopefully you can compare the BMC PureDac with the DSD-S some day soon and give your honest opinion about the audio quality difference. Best wishes, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Aplhifi, this is all true of the BMC PureDac for $1790. |
Alex, can you elaborate on that H-attenuator in DSD-S and why do you think it may sound better lets say than one implemented in Esoteric k-01. Did you compare your DSD-S running direct with other top shelf pre-amps? I know its all subjective,but still care to know your opinion. Thank you. Denon1, the attenuation in the DSD-S is obviously a hybrid design. This allows for lossless attenuation in the normal listening range (0 to -47db to be exact). Also, the DSD-S output stage is so powerful that can drive even a speaker direct (at the RCA outputs), not to talk about any power amplifier. I've made an RCA to headphones jack adapter so I can listen to my Audeze LCD-X headphones that are power hungry at 20 Ohms impedance. Results are quite nice. :-) Hope this explains it. Best wishes, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
In addition to the VS models, can we get Natalie Portman and Gwyneth Paltrow? Why DOWNGRADE the pool? LOL! |
Mattnshilp
"Several hundred!!! You'd be dead within a month."
Nah. I'd pace myself..... ;) I like Mattnshilp idea, much better than high end audio. In addition to the VS models, can we get Natalie Portman and Gwyneth Paltrow? |
So the Romulus Signature is not in the store yet?
Steve just informed me that my ODSE will be shipping later this week. I'm SO psyched!!
I'll burn her in for a few hundred extra hours and let her sing. The DSD-S has some stiff competition. And I still have the Aeris.
Whenever the Romulus Signatire is ready, I can wait. No rush.
I am under the impression Steve has some new upgrades coming soon as well. I'll let him explain, if he wants to. Nothing available yet tho. |
matt, I'll let you know when I'm down there next. That would be fun. Maybe we can get John over there with one of his toys. lol. |
"Several hundred!!! You'd be dead within a month."
Nah. I'd pace myself..... ;) |
Alex, can you elaborate on that H-attenuator in DSD-S and why do you think it may sound better lets say than one implemented in Esoteric k-01. Did you compare your DSD-S running direct with other top shelf pre-amps? I know its all subjective,but still care to know your opinion. Thank you. |
I prefer your dream matt, Best way to go out for sure!, Thankyou for the clarification on the DSD-S. |
Several hundred!!! You'd be dead within a month. |
