Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
@everyone. My resonessance invicta mirus is starting to open up. It's sounding really good. I'm using the manley shrimp with a kst 150. Great soundstage. Great dynamics and decay with absolutely no hardness. I've had it for about a month now. I've been playing it and it's sounding better by the day. |
This Dac seems to be generating some interest as of late. |
The Weiss 202 DAC supports Thunderbolt. However, Thunderbolt in its various incarnations, is One connection technology that I do not recall being discussed on this thread. Is the Weiss 202 Thunderbolt implementation merely a blip in an otherwise thunderboltless evolution of DAC designs, or is this a beginning of a trend, and we might see more such implementations in the future? Are there theoretical or practical advantages of Thunderbolt over USB and SPDIF? ... E.g. Higher jitter immunity, signal isolation, Other? Steve... Alex... Al... What say you? Saluti, G. |
Wisnon, Thanks for the heads up to Stereo Times which reviewed the BMC PureDac very positively, making it a very big bang for the buck. I also chanced upon another product reviewed in Oct 2012, the Memory Player 64 from Laufer Teknik. At about $17k, it is a one-box solution that includes transport and DAC for redbook CD's and hi-res files. This is another fascinationg product for the shoot-out list. There is also a very positive review by, er, Positive Feedback at the link below :- http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue65/memoryplayer.htm Happy reading, all. :) |
Stereotimes review conclusion on the PureDac: Conclusion The PureDAC deviates slightly from neutral with a sweet and richer midrange presentation. It has good bass and treble. Soundstaging, imaging and resolution were above average in absolute terms. In context of its asking price, the PureDAC has outstanding performance and it's shortcomings are only obvious when directly compared to the much more expensive equipment I had on hand. Evaluated in isolation, it is immensely likable. Consider also that the PureDAC is not just a DAC - it is a capable preamp and balanced headphone amp. De-clutter your system by removing two additional boxes, two power cords, two interconnects, and two shelves ! Add a modest price tag (S$ 2,200 in Singapore) to that, and you have an absolute winner. |
I have a buddy in London with an L5 that is trading up to a Big7 very soon. He has a BMC PureDac as his backup Dac (my recommedation to him as an inexpensive backup for when he sent his L5 back for modding caps) and he says "it sounds good, but it aint no Lampi). I spoent 6 hours at AL place this July listing to his 4 Dacs, one of which was a Big7. It sounded so stunningly real to me that I am going to trade up to. To each his own ears Jafox, I am on the hunt for Vintage tubes to roll in The B7. I will get Psavane 101ds, but will try Cunningham 345s/RCA 245 globes and also will roll the recti with 5U4gs and maybe try the WE replica 274Bs from China. |
A good acid test for any piece of digital gear is piano. It is the hardest instrument to replicate. The Lampizator 7 is the best I have heard to date. Another L7 owner has a child who is an accomplished pianist, and he has the same impression through both headphones (of which he has many) and big boy audiophile grade speakers. Jafox said something similar regarding his L6. So, it is all about implementation and system building. The dac has no sound of its own. Matt, I gave you a little guff about the car choice, but the new piano purchase for your bambino thrilled me. I cannot wait to do the same. Instead of comparing dacs to one another, hold them up to that candle one by one.... |
09-11-14: Mattnshilp Ha! Now that's a beverage. For the record, your Cayman/Boxter is a better engineered vehicle. The 911 has a big butt that is easy to spin out. It is just a sentimental thing for me....like a tubed dac.... |
Jafox, Agree about room set up at audio shows. Some are downright excellent sounding and some sound like they were hastily thrown together with little thought or preparation. +1 on tube equipment, I've never heard any that couldn't be substantially improved with a little effort and experimentation. Charles, |
tbg, If the inexpensive BMC puredac floats your boat, then that is all that matters. Price is always secondary to personal pleasure and synergy within the context of your system. I personally find the 1k Marantz NA8005 network player supremely pleasurable, elevating the overall sound quality of my system by a considerable margin. Charles, +1. Audio vocabulary has always been a bugbear in this hobby. |
The Lampizator is musical but of no real interest to me. It doesn't sound real.Well if the L7 in stock tube form is somewhat dimensionally flat as is the stock B6, I would have to agree. But like any tube product, if one goes with stock tubes and tries no other, then they likely have already set the failing state of such a product. We spend so much time tuning the rest of of our system with cables, isolation, room treatments, etc., but the tube products, with the potential of much improvement, are completely ignored….either out of laziness or the nonsense that we are told that the product was "voiced" for the installed tube set and thus this is the optimized implementation. Such voicing is often mediocre at best. I have been able to take EVERY tube product to a major level of performance increase with the swapping of one or more tubes. As for what is musical is what I define as a system that makes me feel I am listening to the real mccoy. On some great recordings I have, on LP and Digital, the Lampizator B6 is mighty mighty close to the Clearaudio/Graham/Decca phono setup I'm currently using. The B6's tonality and dynamic contrasts are spot on and only lags behind the phono with some lost ambiance and depth. I've been to enough audio shows to know maybe 1 in 10 rooms make it worth my while to stay more than 30 seconds. Much talk is the time to setup and let the system settle down in the "new" room. But I recently moved a system upstairs and had awesome results with the start of the first track…..room not treated or optimized at all. So I don't think it is a room issue as much as it is the assembly of products that work well as a system. Unless these have already been optimized ahead of time, it is futile to expect them to simply work well in any room whether familiar or an unfamiliar demo or mid-sized hotel room. |
Hello Himiguel, Yes, this precisely why I prefaced my statement regarding associated components, room etc. I've had enough listening experiences where changing just an item or two causes significant changes in the sound quality. I not surprised that you heard the same characteristics from the Trinity DAC. At the show at that particular time there's no other way to describe the sound.I had expected better, many rooms at CES manage to get very good sound. High Water Sound, Lamm and Concert Fidelity just to name a few always seem to sound fine on my visits. Charles, |
Tbg, Aplhifi-usa, you do know that BMC is a German company and that they have trained all their workers and make most of the parts within the company? Oh, sure it is a German company. But the product is 100% Chinese-made, at least from what I can see from its internal pictures. You realize that I'm in Texas and they are in the NYC environment. They are about as far from me as Moscow is from Paris. But this is not really a problem when it comes to USA-style shipping services, especially when it comes to UPS and FedEx. Truly the best! I think it is interesting that this started as a cd only dac and now is everything. It is all, or nothing at all. :-) Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Aplhifi-usa, you do know that BMC is a German company and that they have trained all their workers and make most of the parts within the company? You realize that I'm in Texas and they are in the NYC environment. They are about as far from me as Moscow is from Paris. I think it is interesting that this started as a cd only dac and now is everything. |
Charles 1 dad, I agree that the Trinity sounded clinical and sterile at CES, but on same token I've heard it sound quite engaging in another system in Hong Kong. Not as relaxed, warm or fIuid as the Trinity phono. I believe that the synergy of components as a whole is what makes or break a component. I also agree with Tbg findings on the L7 dac. I did hear some positive attributes of communicating the musical message at CES from the L7. Such a fine line between speed, detail, musicality. |
Tbg, I still say the inexpensive BMC PureDac is the best. Though it is clear that the BMC is another Chinese-made product judging by the way it is built internally, I would agree with you that it packs unique technologies, unlike some "name brands". And I respect that. I've met Clement Perry and Key Kim at the Munich show this year and promised them a DSD-S review sample. I am not sure when this will happen, but it will for sure. Promise is a promise. So maybe you can get to listen to it as well, and let us know how you feel about it. Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Charles1dad, I agree on both counts. Vocabulary for what we hear is worthless. Audio postings should be musical sounds not words. I also agree that everyone has their own opinions about what they seek. There will never be anything close to a consensus. This is why I can see that Matt is helped by this effort on his part, but that I had very little interest. |
Tbg, Vocabulary is a problem when discussing audio. Your use of the term musical is much different from mine. In my use it's a major compliment and means it's natural,conveys realism and allows emotional involvement. Tbg everyone reading this thread has personal favorites, that's why so many brands exist.I enjoy discussing what I've heard and exchanging opinions with others, but nothing is ever the best for everyone.It's all the variables that make this an interesting hobby. Charles, |
Jon, Yes, I felt it was more natural and musically expressive or connecting.I acknowledge the two DACs were in different systems and there were contributions from the other components.The Lampizator 7 system just drew my attention directly to the music and for me this is always a good sign. I recognize that a change here or there in the system can change perception and outcome.The sound I heard in the Trinity room in contrast was clinical and not engaging in nature. Charles, |
Jon2020, I hate the characterization, 'musical' which really means good sounding but nothing close to real sounding. The Lampizator is musical but of no real interest to me. It doesn't sound real. But in my opinion neither does the Trinity and it is outrageously expensive. I still say the inexpensive BMC PureDac is the best. |
Wisnon, I heard the Trinity DAC and the Lampizator level 7 at CES earlier this year. They were in different rooms/systems but the Lampizator 7 (room) moved me more emotionally and was very involving. It'd be a thrill to compare them directly as the only variable in an otherwise identical system. They will likely appeal to two very different types of listeners. Charles, |
Matt I did try chunky and as you said it's really is not as smooth as well..smooth, and damned if I didn't heard a difference between the higher end Skippy and the house brands As for mouse nuts the trick is in the matching.. Pairs are tough enough but Oy Vey, just try getting enough sets for a discrete stepped attenuator! |
Erikminer: I'm very intrigued by your suggestion for a DAC based on Shmop Amps, peanut butter caps and mouse nut resistors!! I wonder if you could upgrade the caps to smooth peanut butter as the chunky gives the bass bloat and creates a harsh treble. Mouse nuts are clearly difficult to harvest and dramatically increase cost, but I think it would be worth while to roll those nuts and try Squirrel, Chipmunk and maybe even Russian Bat. Obviously a matches pair are always preferred! Shmop Amps are truthfully only necessary in kosher homes as the shmops must be blessed by the proper audiophile rabbi's. Easier to find around Passover season. When used properly, Oy are they good!!! |
Op amps Shmop Amps...At the end of the day (if I could spend 16 large) I could care less if the thing uses peanut butter for caps and mouse nuts for resistors it's how the bloody thing sounds that matters... and it sure seems that the folks at Berkley know what they're doing.. And hey Audioengr.. how about a little apology to Al for your douchy poke at him the other day.. I think it would go a ways towards sprucing up your image.. |
Funny today there's a story Manual transmission is becoming extinct in US. http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/09/11/manual-transmissions-getting-rarer-in-us/ I am a closet...I knew it! Agear, what are you really trying to tell us? Have some courage Woman. You can do it. Are you going to live a lie your whole life? Agear doing what Agear does best. Audio Benghazi. Unfortunately we're not sure what his particular cause is....: until after the election. Impeach and trial him for MURDER! |
Romulus wins a Golden Ear from the Absolute Sound! "This all-tubed CD player and DAC is one of the greatest bargains in high-end audio today. What makes the Romulus special is that it sounds so "un-digital," particularly at this price. Rather than sounding flat and congealed, the Romulus opens up the spatial presentation and gives instruments and voices room to breathe. The player has an expansive quality along with a sense of top-octave air and openness. The tonal balance is rich and warm in the bass, which, coupled with the treble smoothness, results in an immediately engaging and fatigue-free presentation. The Romulus doesn't sound "tubey" in the classic sense, but neither does it sound like solid-state. The design and build-quality are beyond what's expected at this price. If you have no analog sources, the Romulus can serve as a preamplifier and DAC with multiple digital inputs, provided you purchase the variable-output option ($1000). Thanks to an innovative hybrid analog/digital volume-control, there's no loss of resolution no matter what the volume setting." -Robert Harley |
I were willing to spend $16K for a DAC I would certainly put the Berkeley on my short list. Fair enough Al, though a $16k converter should at least give the option of DSD64 via S/PDIF. But that is just my opinion, as well as the fact that there is no other reasonable explanation, except for being on a strict budget. Elaboration will be the fact that there is an additional signal path for DSD (basically bypassing their DSP) necessary for providing the DoP/DSD capability, as well as additional clocking. And personally even the true statement of yours: "quality of implementation is likely to trump the theoretical advantages and disadvantages of any particular design approach." It does not really justify using bunch of OpAmps from DAC chips to output. Sorry, it is again just my opinion. Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Using one op-amp is a lot different that cascading several of them. They do add compression, just like any active stage will, even tubes (but to lesser extent). The fewer the better. That is why I use one. The one I use is a lot more that just I/V converter too. It has 4 different functions. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
A few minutes after submitting my post just above I received my copy of the October 2014 issue of TAS, containing the Berkeley review and interview Erik referred to earlier. In the interview Michael Ritter of Berkeley addresses in a reasonable amount of detail his rationale for not including a USB interface and DoP capability in the design. His comments about the lack of USB are very much along the lines of what I said earlier. His comments about the lack of DoP IMO represent a credible, plausible, and well stated design philosophy, especially for a component in this price range. I certainly recognize, however, that similarly credible and plausible cases could be made for opposing philosophies. Accordingly, I would not categorize the arguments on either side of the coin as being BS, or as being grounds for either rejection or acceptance of a particular candidate. Again, "quality of implementation is likely to trump the theoretical advantages and disadvantages of any particular design approach." But after reading the review and interview, like Erik if I were willing to spend $16K for a DAC I would certainly put the Berkeley on my short list. Regards, -- Al |
Audiolabyrinth, I disagree, check the Audio Exotics site. Their most worshipped DAC currently is the Trinity DAC. That tiny single box has replaced the 3-4 box DCS Vivaldi in several systems in Asia. I think it is quality and implementation that matters, not the number of boxes. For some of them, the cost of the power cords for their Vivaldi stack was almost the price of the Trinity DAC. |
09-11-14: AplhifiHaving no specific familiarity with the tradeoffs that might be involved, I take no position on that. My only point, as I said in the first of my posts dated 9-10-14, is that "quality of implementation is likely to trump the theoretical advantages and disadvantages of any particular design approach." Audiolabyrinth, thanks for the nice words in your post yesterday. Regards, -- Al |
