Kana813, I wonder what that seller may be moving towards to for his next digital?, Now that is interesting! |
Mattnshilp- "The Romulus Sig, Allnic and Berkeley DACs are all on my list to eventually try. The usb/SPDIF conversion being the biggest hurtle to overcome.
Is the consensus among those that know the Romulus and Allnic that the internal usb input is top tier and lets the unit perform its best?"
Don't know anything about the Allnic,but if you want to listen to DSD on the Romulus/Pandora Signature you have to use the USB input, otherwise, IMO, the USB and AES/EBU inputs sound the same.
PS- there's a Pandora Signature w/volume control listed for sale on Agon. |
Aolmrd1241,
While I do agree that it is about the music, I absolutely love music no matter how it is amplified, but I also love the arts that get us there. Hardware, for example, can get you very damn close to the event, if everything is correct.
Nothing wrong with finding the pieces that touch us in all the right spots. There are plenty worse addictions. :) |
I enjoy my critical listening sessions as much as my relaxing lost in the music sessions. And I feel the good people who have followed the thread this far deserve the same passion and intensity through each of my auditions. It's all good to me.
And I do love listening to my kids play. But I can tell you it's way better on the new Yamaha then the old Otto Altenberger. And now it's obvious how badly the music room needs a carpet and curtains. Lol. Always the audiophile..... |
Matt,if I had to sit and listen with such intensity as you do in your dac listening comparisons..." I think my head would explode". Sit,relax and enjoy your blessings. The music is what matters,not all of the subtle nuances.
Just a side... I would bet when your child plays the piano that the sweet music generated is not picked apart, note, by note.
Life's to short. |
"09-06-14: Jon2020
....I am currently using DSD for Upsampling and OFF for digital filter. It's strange as I am not a dsd diehard but somehow, having gone through all the different combinations, the dsd setting gets it right 90% of the time. This setting gives a wider and deeper soundstage, provides more body to and air around instruments, while notes decay that much longer.
My general impression for all the settings are as follows, depending on the overall sound of the system or recording to begin with :-
1. Cool, dry, lean, thin, fast -> FIR1/2
2. Warm, slow, boomy, laid-back -> SDLY 1/2
3. Balanced - DSD
........"
Hmmm..... |
They are the opposite of my initial findings as well. We spoke about what I heard off thread, and we both had similar findings. But today was very different. My findings were in contrast to my previous findings.
I look forward to my next session. That will help to reinforce my findings. I have not made any rash decisions thus far and wont start now.
What fun! |
Hi Matt, your K-01 findings seem to be the opposite of my own... I found S_dly2/4X to be most emotionally absorbing for long term listening, while DSD/OFF seemed me more of an seat-edge experience that I could endure for a limited time.
Now I am wondering if I perhaps did not give the DSD circuit enough time to break in.
G. |
UPDATE:
Finally got some time to compare the ODSE and give the Esoteric K-01 a good listen.
Most interestingly, I had the time to really give the different settings a listen on the K-01. First impressions were with short listening sessions. At times, I preferred the SDLY-2/4x settings and at times I preferred the DSD/off settings. The DSD/off setting is warmer and more musical but sacrifices high end refinement and extension. The low frequencies are more defined and the midrange has more of a tube warmth to it. The SDLY-2/4x setting is more articulate, more accurate and has significantly more extension in the higher registers. Overall I found the later to be a bit stringent and bright at times; although with full on orchestral majesty the SDLY2/4x setting seamed to reveal more of the music while giving up a bit of musical involvement.
i found more of a change when moving through the up conversion settings then the digital filter settings.
In contrast to my initial impressions I kept turning the settings back to DSD/Off unless listening to symphony where I just felt I was missing something with the DSD setting in play. For Symphony I chose Guido's 4x/SDLY2 most of the time but listener fatigue typically set in and I needed to change back to DSD/Off. I only burned in those settings, so for me to fully play would be another 500 hours with the FIR and SDLY1 settings. With vocals, rock, jazz and all other music, DSD/off was the obvious way to go. And this is on both CD direct as well as USB.
CD clearly sounded superior to USB, although not by nearly as much as one would have expected. I guess Esoteric didn't cheap out on the USB input. But with $21K retail to play with, they really should have enough money to go around and make everything pretty much top tier. There was a slight difference in levels between the CD and the USB input (even with my Mac set at full output). The CD was a bit louder but was easily adjusted with volume while listening. Dynamics were slightly improved and a sense of complexity more evident with the CD source, but VERY VERY subtle. sometimes I think I was hearing it just to hear a difference.
The background with the K-01 was pitch black. Like, black hole black. Zero, silence, the complete absence of anything but black.
ODSE back in play…. Black came back a tad, not quite black hole, but silent still. Like you knew the energy of the universe was there, but couldn't really perceive any physical culmination of that energy. But the magic that is the ODSE was there. Not overly bright, nor with mid's that stood out. There seamed to me to be more complexity in the music, more inner detail and more energy.
This was a very hard comparison as both are off the charts good. I need to sit down and do some more listening as I was pulled away shortly after putting the ODSE back in so my second half of the comparison was not complete….
I'll be back when I find the time. Hoping this Wednesday.
Cheers. |
I'll ask Johnny about the Rom sig when I speak with him this week. As for the Ayre, I'm not sure if my integrated has that. I have the 7 not the 5...The 5 has the diamond stage. They are now making their top amps with double diamond stages...their USB only DAC (now with DSD) is as good as any of the DAC's I've heard. For many of us, we can't afford the awesome DAC's you are listening to here in this thread. I'm still waiting on the right music server I think. |
The Romulus Sig, Allnic and Berkeley DACs are all on my list to eventually try. The usb/SPDIF conversion being the biggest hurtle to overcome.
Is the consensus among those that know the Romulus and Allnic that the internal usb input is top tier and lets the unit perform its best? |
Hi Matt, very, very good electrical job you done there, congrats are in full order!, and Happy Thanksgiving to you and to everyone on this thread. |
Room is framed, wired and insulated. I just wired the sub panel into the main today. I ran 4/3 Romex from sub to main. Did I complain about working with 10/2??? Once working with 4/3, 10/2 is cake!
The sub panel is a 125 amp, 20 breaker Square D panel running through the 4/3 with a 70 amp double breaker in my main commercial grade GE box. The Square D panel has 5 dedicated 20 amp circuits all from the same Line to maintain phase. I wired my 5 PS Audio outlets into their dedicated 20 amp circuits, labeled them accordingly and tested the entire room; utility outlets (running from the main panel), overhead lights (running from the main panel) and my dedicated circuits all functioning and no arcing seen. Phew!
I left the top 4 spots (2 on each side) to put a surge protection device in Line as the first circuits after the tie in off the main. The main panel has a whole house SPD, but I'm putting a second on on my sub-panel to be totally safe. This way I feel super comfortable running my amps straight into the outlet with no power conditioner/surge protection needed other then my Shunyata power cords.
I know its not DAC related, but I have learned a TON doing this and am more then happy to share my newly learned knowledge with any who have questions. It's not hard, you just need to be super meticulous.
Sheetrock next. Picking colors and carpet next week.
Trying to decide what treatments I'm doing now and later. Definitely corner base traps and first reflection diffusers. Probably something subtle on front and back to reduce slap echo.
Trying to find time to compare the K01 DAC with the ODSE. |
Ctsooner, Ayre is a great company. I know they incorporated that new Thermaltrak transistor like Macintosh and that apparently accounts for a lot of their sonic merits. Is that used in your integrated? |
I just read a blurb about the Technics development on a Sonos forum. My first amplifier I got as a 11 yr old was a technics integrated. Fond memories.... |
I assume the Rom was the Sig version, but I honestly didn't even look. Since falling in love with the Ayre components in the last year, I've gotten away from tubes as I don't like rolling them. I spend way too much time listening to music, both recorded and live. I can't just get to my components anymore as I have MS and it isn't fun gettign on the floor anymore....This is what makes audio so much fun...there is something for all of us. I love the sound of the AR gear as well as the Aesthetix gear. I'm still liking an all Ayre system for what it does in the midbass and bass. Again, that's just me, but they are all awesome components. |
Guido, here:
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/poland2014/17.html
and here
http://soundrebels.com/artykuly/reportaze/item/464-audio-show-2014-cz-2 |
Yep... except that the Technics page site is not compatible with screen reading technology... Ah well *groans!* G. |
Guido,
The power of Googlesphere revisited :-
http://www.technics.com/sp/global/
Cheers! J. |
Wisnon, what are the Technics devices you obliquely refer to... And what about links to their home pages and/or reviews?
G. |
How is your room rebuild and electrical coming along Matt? |
Technics is back with a bang too! |
Hi Steve Nugent, It is an Honor to speak to you as always, Yes, I am serious, Yamaha is playing ball in the field of High-end audio now, check out this ad in music direct or the Yamaha web page, the Yamaha cd-s3000 sacd player/dac is built very good, I was impressed for this to be yamaha! |
Hi Guidocorona, That is exactly where I seen this Yamaha ad,In the music direct, and the intergrated amp on the same ad pages is special too at $6,995.00, only 90 watts per channel, I say why not Yamaha get into our maket nitch?, my exsperience with Yamaha back in the 80's was a R-100 reciever that I use to own that was incredible with vinyl play back, it had mm and mc phono pre-amp built inside, and I am telling all of you, I know sound, to this day, that was the best reciever I have ever heard in my life time, for what it was, there was no better! |
Ctsooner, was that the "basic" Romulus or the Signature? |
If the would have put a Dac in I would never had sold it. |
Have any of you guys heard the parasound cd1. I had it for a while. It was the best cd playback I ever heard. |
Steve, you will find the Yamaha CD-S3000 at MusicDirect for $5995:
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-161295-yamaha-cd-s3000-sacdcd-player.aspx |
Audiolab - Yamaha and $6K? You can't be serious.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Cstooner, I read and enjoyed your description of the Vandersteen event. The speed and energy of live music is hard to reproduce. I also celebrate your support of the brick and mortar crew. I miss that experience. In Minneapolis (where I used to live) there was an older store that would let you take things home to demo. No substitute for that. |
Matt, I just spent the day listening to the Romulus at Audio Connection. He had Richard Vandersteen in for the day, so it was on his 7's with his own amp. The pre was the AR ref with phono...It was in the back room.. Best sound I've EVER heard. I was there very early and late and got the sweet spot seat. It was a ton of records as that's what Nick loves, but I threw a couple of my songs on the Rom from a CD I brought with me and it was amazing.. Still didn't do somethings a record will do, but it did a lot of stuff better. I was in shock as I've heard it a few times and this time it was really special. If the products you are listening to are better, then we are the winners. I think Digital is starting to really come of age. I'm still hoping that all in one solutions start to come out. Maybe units that you can control from a wifi app where you can hook up your own hard drive/NAS..that way you can better control your storage etc... I wish I knew more about digital, but I do know sound. If you are around the store, just stop by and check it out...It is worth the trip I promise. Wish I could hear some of the boutique products too as I'm sure they are awesome. I think this is why I'm always going to be a Brick and Mortar guy. Glad we have both options still. |
Thank you Audiolabirynth, as I have never listened to this Yamy, I have no opinions on whether the Yamaha CD-S3000 will vanquish any giants or otherwise cause any explosive bowel movements in the aforementioned... But here is the device's home page... Blessed be the Googlesphere!
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/cd-players/cd-s3000_u/ |
Hi, I thought I would put a giant killer for digital on this thread that all of you should check out and comment on here, although many of you may scoff about the name brand?, The Yamaha cd-s3000 sacd player/Dac $5,999.00 retail!, very interesting specs and cosmetics, given years ago exsperience with Yamaha, I bet this would kick the crap out of some bigger name, much more exspensive equipment out there, you think? |
Hi Matt, that is exactly why I did all my electrical!, Ha, he, ha, it's one thing to take bashing on the net, in person, they will be asked to never come back!, you are doing a fine job, congrats my friend! |
K01 done burning in usb Monday. I'll put something up by Wed.
Room is progressing. All wiring done except few details with lighting. I'm recovering from running the 4/3 cable from mains to sub panel. My shoulder is killing me. A HUGE thank you to JEA48 on the 'Gon who has really helped me on the rights and wrongs to make the electrical audiophile grade.
They are framing out the rear soffit today and then putting up insulation. Probably rocking next week. It's amazing how the contractors think I'm insane for what this is and the meticulous detail to which I want everything done. |
Hi Matt, you must be knee deep in your listening room project?, I was hopeing you may have more feed back on your Esoteric K-01 player to post here? |
Thanks for the kind comments.
As cliched as it may sound, the proof is in the listening.
For the K-01 to perform optimally as a transport alone, the following settings are necessary :-
1. Digital out > CD
2. Upsampling > ORG
3. Digital filter > OFF
4. Analog out > OFF
Cheers! J. |
Jon2020,
I think you're right with the 3 predictions. |
great review Jon2020, I suspected that the out come would be as you exsperienced of the Esoteric K-01 player, let's see if matt comes to the same conclusion? |
IMHO, the K-01's internal dac is a bit long in the tooth now, as alluded to in another thread.
I humbly predict the following results :-
1) with the K-01 as transport feeding the well-regarded Overdrive SE dac, the SQ of redbook cd will beat out the internal dac of the K-01
2) a cd spinning in the K-01 transport will beat out the same redbook ripped file playing through the mac mini. The K-01 remains a very formidable transport for physical discs
3) VERY high quality redbook recordings on physical discs played through the K-01/ODSE combo are likely to sound as good as most hi-res files played through the ODSE's usb input.
Happy listening!
J.
|
Hi matt,Thankyou, That is big numbers for the views indeed, I personally have enjoyed your thread, going off to all the other topics has taught me a few things as well, like the topic of tubes for digital sources for sure,would be great to hit back on that topic, cheers. |
It's sort of meandering about. I sorta like it.
Tubes for a bit, then music servers, now a bit on AC wiring. All good. And I'm learning a lot with each wandering.
I'm still cooking my Esoteric K01 so nothing to report until it's done. I'm happy to see the thread finds interesting things to fill the voids in time. The K01 will be done next Monday, 11/24. I will then compare the ODSE to the K01 as an independent DAC as well as compare the Mac/ODSE vs a red book cd played on the K01 - obviously with the same exact recordings (ripped CD file compared to CD itself)
I do have a local guy who can get the Allnic DAC into my room; he's also providing my Vicoustics treatments. And I just may have found a new dealer to work with who, I hope, can get me the Aesthetix Romulus Signature you all have been requesting I hear. I'll keep you updated on all of that as well.
But with a room build in progress, I'd rather wait for the Romulus and Allnic until my room is done.
I swear, Melbguy1, I haven't lost site of the topic. But my search is slow and methodical. And burn in chews up weeks at a time....
I will say that I am not (currently) pursuing the new Berkely top dog DAC since it lacks USB input. |
|
Sorry, is this thread about getting recommendations for a top tier dac for rbcd's or wiring an audio room? Seems like this thread has lost the plot.. |
Hi Matt, what is the views of this thread now? |
I went down to the box yesterday and it does have ONE earth ground for the box. There are two boxes, but it's the same box. He put the smaller one in so that I can easily find the 20amp circuits for the whole loft (where the audio system resides). I will say that the breakers are different from the ones in the big box (rest of the house). Like I said he's an audiophile and knows what he's doing, so maybe he installed 'audiophile breakers' (j/k).......it is all copper wire though.
Matt, he'll be there with his new amp for the 7's. it's an all day deal. my email is ctsooner@alumni.ou.edu if you want to get in touch. Like I said, I'll be there all day. I'm hoping to listen to the Ayre phono pre as well as the Romulus as I think that's what he'll be using on the 7's.......would be fun to meet. Thanks to you all for the info on the electrical. I love learning. |
The best grounding sceme is to isolate every components grounds from each other in the signal cabling, but use common earth ground for all, so there are no ground loops. I do this using combination of good analog transformers and digital isolators. |
congrats mattnship, I did all my wireing to my system, no need for a electrician if you have sence!I have the same set-up a you do, it works!, however, remeber, though a dedicated ground for each circuit does sound better, doing so will not flip each breaker on this scheme when problems occur, thats why it is not code! |
Ctsooner, based on your latest post it sounds probable that the electrician simply installed what are commonly referred to as dedicated lines for each of the outlets, which is fine. I had been interpreting your earlier statement, and Agear's as well, to amount to what is depicted in the figure at the top of page 8 of the reference I provided. That is done by some audiophiles, but would entail all of the risks I described. Matt, that all sounds fine also. And +1 to Steve's suggestions. Regarding your questions, my instinct would be to connect the monitor to the same outlet as the computer, and to NOT connect it to the outlet powering the turntable motor. I'm envisioning the possibility that if they were on the same outlet some amount of RFI generated by the monitor might find its way to the motor, and radiate from there to the phono signal wiring. My instinct/guess is the same as yours, though, regarding there probably being no need to have the trickle charger and the phono stage on the same circuit. Hummmmmm...... Clever double entendre :-) Regards, -- Al |
ctsooner - I will call and ask the specific of the meeting at Audio Connection. I would love to go if I can get free...
Steve - Thanks for the suggestions. I definitely will.
I have 2 dedicated 20 amp circuits running to the rack, one for digital, 1 for analog. Each runs to it's own single outlet.
I'm going to pass on the isolated ground rod thing. As I said, I found some simple to implement (and inexpensive) solutions. I'll stick to my grounding bar in my sub-panel... |
