Hi jwm, every dac chip I have ever owned has been from Burr-Brown, however, I believe for $13,000.000 a player should be more than 24/192 for Redbook playback, this has been around for longer than 5 year's, any cheap player does that standard, I love Burr-brown chip's sound, but, I'm wanting to up grade to the new technology, 129 dynamic range sounds sweet to me,and -120dB for distortion is appealing.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,489 responses Add your response
Any one have feedback on the aesthetix Romulus Eclipse?, a lot of money for a player that has an obsolete dac!, A $900.00 phone will have a Stereo D/A converter from ESS Technology.This converter (SABRE9018AQ2M) debuted at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2015, and is the world’s most powerful 32-bit converter. It features 129dB dynamic range and -120dB (0.0001 percent) harmonic distortion. |
Hi Labtec, if you go to CES, try to have a look at class D offerings from * Rowland: possibly present might be - Daemon superintegrated ($42K), - Continuum S2 integrated ($9.5K). Roy Gregory's review at: http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/jeff_rowland_continuum_s2.htm - M925 monos ($58K) - based on NCore NC1200, - M825 stereo (approx $30K - based on NCore NC1200). Marc Michelson's review at: http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/jeff_rowland_model_825.htm - M625 S2 stereo (approx $15K - this one running in class A/B). * Gato might show its newest integrated amps... I suspect you might enjoy more the one based on the Pascal M2-Pro than the S2-Pro version. * Bel Canto should have its Black System, which is based on customized versions of the NCore NC1200 designed by Bruno Putzeys (approx $50K). * On A Higher Note is likely to have once again the Mola Mola... It is a fine NCore NC1200 implementation, but you might find it a little forward for your taste. * Hopefully, Merrill Audio will have its Veritas monos based on NCore ($12K). My review at: http://positive-feedback.com/Issue68/merrill_audio.htm * Devialet also makes fine class D integrated amps.... I find them a little too peaky for my taste, but my memory is of a 3 years ago, and they are likely to have evolved since then. |
Matt, what class D amps are you talking about? You said they are better than A/B amps, but what about tubes? i've been to countless shows (and I'll be at CES next week), so I'd like to check out any class D i may have missed. I'm all for buying a class D amp if I can find one better than ARC Reference level tubes, but I haven't found any of these digital amps certain people claim "sound like tubes" yet. Actually, none even close to that sound quality to my ears. To me, they seem night and day different. The closest thing class D I would buy at a certain budget range is the Lyngdorf which keeps everything digital until output and can provide room correction that provides a distinct advantage for many users. The new Technics with CAT6 input and a LPS sounded promising too, but only the budget model had price commensurate with performance. Otherwise, I can't recall any from recent shows. If any digital amp should sound good, it would be Mola Mola given the pedigree of the designer. I can't say I was impressed with even their stuff, especially the price (to be fair though, it was limited exposure). i always keep an open mind...errr...ear |
Thank you LabTec, yes you are right... To each his own. I am delighted that you love all your tube and SS amps. Personally, I do not seek amps that emulate the sound of anything in particular. I seek devices that instantiate the sound signature and musical concept that I have in mind. Being essentially maintenance-free, not doubling as furnaces, and enjoying a stable performance without tube replacements, are also very desirable characteristics for me. Today, a pair of Rowland M925 class D monos give me amazing nirvana... To a greater extent than most amps I have ever auditioned. Interestingly, they are highly reliable, are very efficient, and their performance remains stable over time. What more could I wish?! Tomorrow, I might discover amps that yield an even greater degree of enchantment. M925 might be replaced by some low or moderately biased class A/B amps, or I might still be with some class D device.... Class A and high powered tubed amps are unlikely to make the cut for the reasons mentioned above, but I do not exclude them apriori. Bottom line is that I follow neither "the road less traveled" nor "the more traveled" one... Fact is that I could not care any less about the number of travellers on a road, and which topology "most people" return to... I only seek that which gives me audible joy, evaluating amps one at a time solely on their own particular merits,while keeping as open a mind as I can to the world around me. G. |
And the $60+K Roland 925 monoblocks are also not worth considering, just because they are class D. Or his new Daemon integrated, just because it's class D; even though both have won best in show awards and have incredible reviews from people with reliable ears? thats like saying those new fangled gas powered car engines are just noise and smoke, I'll stick with my horse thank you very much! My reference amp is class AB, but not because I don't believe class D can do what my Burmy's do. I have no doubt a class D amp can be designed to sound as good or better then my 911mk3's. I just haven't heard one YET. I keep an open mind and an open ear to all new tech. What's to lose? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Your loss..... There are some amazing class D amps out there. And some of them blow their equally priced class AB amps out of the water. |
It's amusing to read about SS amps that people claim are "tubelike" in a thread about DACs. Why not just buy a tube amp and stop hoping to find a SS amp that comes close? Steve Nugent's thoughts got people all excited, but maybe you guys missed the part about him actually USING a TUBE amp...not these other SS amps. (Plus, he was previously using a John Curl designed SS amp that he further modified to extract performance, yet it STILL wasn't enough and now he uses tubes.) To each his own, but, personally, I don't see why anyone would spend that kind of money on a class D amp or small company SS amp, when you could get an ARC Reference amp that will drive almost any speaker for the same price. Odds are good that you will then laugh at all the SS amps futilely trying to duplicate that sound...plus have a ready resale market...lifetime service...and unparalleled pedigree. Many SS amps sound really nice and even have tech specs that sound better on paper. I use several myself, but, for ultimate sound quality, most people eventually return to tubes and not vice-versa for a reason. |
Teranis is a lovely amp indeed. Yes, I would consider its overall performance as a junior, and perhaps subtly warmer version of the Merrill Veritas. In its default configuration of 26dB gain, Teranis will do fine with moderately large speakers that do not present particularly tough load challenges... With my Vienna Die Muzik, and the amp driven by Rowland Aeris, when increasing volume to realistic listening levels, suddenly the sound crosses into an area of lesser linearity, where the presentation becomes slightly boomy/shouty and less relaxed. However, this is not a fatal flaw. Merril increased my evaluation unit gain to 29dB, which enabled Teranis to handle my speakers with ease. It is worth noting that some other NCore NC500-based amps -- such as the Acoustic Imagery ATSAH 500 -- sport a dedicated NC1200/700 SMPS per channel instead of the single NC1200/700 shared for the two channels in Teranis. I conjecture that such implementations might be better suited for relatively demanding speakers. Regards, G. |
Matt - the Taranis is even more of a bargain that it would be at around $4000 since the price w/free shipping from Merrill Audio is actually $2500. A review of the Taranis (used w/a tube pre-amp) was posted here on Audiogon some weeks ago. A link to a recent 3rd party "professional" review of the Taranis is also available in that review thread. |
Hi all. Merry Christmas. I wanted to give a brief report on the Merrill Taranis stereo amp and Cara Pre-amp I was fortunate enough to audition. The Taranis is 400wpc into 8 ohms class D in the same design as my nCore Veritas amps. The preamp and amp are a matching design with a top panel mounted over an underlying chassis; not like the aluminum billet milled Veritas chassis. The front is polished with central screens. Very attractive overall. The case rings with a finger tap and doesn't have the solidity of the Veritas. The amp sounded like a budget version of the Veritas; neutral, dynamic, engaging and quite a bargain at, I think, around $4k. The Cara is also around the same price and had a warmer, sweater sound with a nice deep soundstage. A bit tubelike. I would say the amp is flexible in that it would sound good with solid state or tube gear. I think the preamp needs the Taranis to sound it's best. For under $10k it's a nice sounding combo but there is a LOT of competition in that price range and some is very good. Merrill has a very flexible audition policy and if your in the market for that price range gear then it's worth a consideration. |
So, when I read the several posts mentioning Wells Audio, I just had to wade in. Before I talk about Wells, I thought since I don’t post a lot that it’d be helpful for you to understand my particular tastes in audio. I can say that I really like what Steve N does with his gear. The last two years at Newport were very very good, one of the best rooms at the show, especially 2014 with Vapor Audio. I favor sound as Steve does; very open, transparent, and with all extreme’s intact. Steve’s gear does all ranges great but the treble area and cymbals in particular are so beautiful. Really, the best I’ve heard. I also like MBL, D’Agostino, McIntosh, and other solid state gear. I do not recall what room it was, but there were some of the smaller Wilson Sabrina’s playing with D’Agostino mono’s and their top preamp. That room was probably my favorite this year; the amps had vice-like control and with I believe a M9 DAC, it was really very nice; so easy to listen to with the entire frequency range beautifully demonstrated. So, with that, now you know my audio perspective. I first remember hearing Wells Audio at Newport 2014 and then heard it again at CanJam 2015. I heard both of Jeff’s head phone amps at CanJam. But the Headtrip was just amazing. This is basically an Inamorata in a smaller case according to Jeff. The setup had the Lampi Model 4 Gen 5 dac with Dana Cables/ACT power cables and a Mac Mini front end. The headphones were HIFIMAN HE 560s. This system was heaven. I listened to headphones at that show that cost two or three times the 560s and on some fairly costly systems too. None even came close to the Wells Audio system. Again, none were even near the same league. If I would have had $17,000 to spare, I’d have bought that setup and never looked back, it was that staggeringly good. Every time I mention it to my friend that was with me, he thinks exactly the same thing. The Wells Audio amp and the rest of the setup made the headphones just sing. I also vaguely remember the 2014 Newport show, which I think had less supporting gear but was also very good; natural, punchy, and musical. So, I realize I just brought head phones into this thread. But I have also heard the full size Inamorata stereo amp at Newport 2015. (I don’t know if this was the SE model or not) Despite the small room the overall sound was somewhat above average. Of course, that is just my general thought. I think that the ancillary gear and setup lacked; it just didn’t have the quality of gear needed for it to shine. I did speak momentarily to Jeff and he didn’t seem amped the way he did at CanJam. I do think that if the Inamorata can sound anything like my experience with the headphones it will be an amazing amp. I hope to hear it in a venue with suitable supporting equipment. That’s my experience with Wells Audio and I do look forward to what Jeff is doing and hope to hear his gear again soon. |
A super phone for the ages? Samsung Galaxy s7 edge +, Stereo D/A converter from ESS Technology. This converter (SABRE9018AQ2M) debuted at the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2015, and is the world’s most powerful 32-bit converter. It features 129dB dynamic range and -120dB (0.0001 percent) harmonic distortion. Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/samsung-galaxy-s7-news/#ixzz3vFT3FXjN Follow us: @digitaltrends on Twitter | digitaltrendsftw on Facebook, , I have the s 6 edge +, this phone sounds good blue toothed to a car stereo, the s7 edge + could be a radical tool to blue tooth to our system's!, |
I've yet to hear a D'agostino in a store that I liked. Personally, any of the amps we have all spoken about have sounded much better to me (I've heard many, but not all the amps in this thread). They are pretty to look at, but at that price point, I think the Ayre, Boulder, Rowland, AR, Aestheix and others crush it for refinement etc... Just my personal opinion. Matt, not sure if it does have VC or not. Just getting feedback from everyone I know who's been hearing it that it's a killer at under 13k. That's a great price point right now as there are more and more choices. The more I listen to systems, the more I am appreciating my own OSDE/SE. There are a few other DAC's that I like too, but most still don't deal properly with the power supply issues that are so important in digital and I also don't think many manufacturer's fully get digital filtering the way Steve and a few other engineers do. I know I'll get skewered but I heard the DCS stack again on something other than Wilson XLF (not a fan at all) and I was left asking the question "who would purchase that over some of the other choices in the 15k range". Again, JMHO and I know many don't hear what I do. |
I've heard the Wells Audio Inamorata in 3 different systems. A fabulous amp which sounds as liquid and natural as solid state can, but with all of the detail and transparency that can escape tubes. This from a dyed in the wool tube man. If I were to purchase a ss amp, if I could not pull off a D'Agostino, I would get a Wells. |
Steve N, I am so happy to see someone as respected and knowledgeable as yourself mention Wells Audio here. I purchased the Inamorata Signature this time last year and can not be happier with it! I am actually surprised Wells Audio does not get mentioned more often. Also, very interesting to see you have a Plasmatron. I have been interested off and on over the last three years...but there continues to be very little spoken about them since I was first made aware of it during its beta testing. I wish owners would come out and speak more about them --like what changes they hear to their systems. and great adventure thread, Matt! Thanks! |
Hi Labrynth. I haven't installed the outlets yet. Just no time. The plasmatron is in the system but I have not had time to listen yet. Burn in is supposed to be about 100 hours. I'm not close. The Eclipse hasn't made it to my place yet. Again, my schedule between work and the holidays has been insane. I don't know if the Eclipse Romulus I would be trying has the VC. CTSooner might know. I'll let you know when I know. |
Not Matt and no I haven't heard the Eclipse yet, but I've spoken to a few whom I trust (similar hearing as mine, so take it for what it's worth). That DAC is a very very serious contender right now. I auditioned the Rom Sig two weeks ago and really thought it was musical as heck. I was able to listen for hours to that with Atlas stereo amp, Aesthetix pre (not sure which one off hand) and Vandersteen Quatro CT's with mid level AQ cabling through out. I got lost in the music as we listened to everything you can imagine. The sound dug very deep when there was bass information and the sound stage was as though we were there. It was fast, clean and emotional. Things just sounded the way they were supposed to sound. No grain and very low noise floor. I was impressed by that as tubes often aren't as quiet as great SS gear. It wasn't as quiet as the Ayre Twenty gear, but quiet non the less. That said, I was told that the Romulus Signature doesn't hold a candle to the new Eclipse gear. I know that Richfield and Matt both have spent time with the Eclipse. They also seem to have liked what they heard and it wasn't even close to being broken in. Between the Eclipse and eventually new Ayre DAC's along with all the other contenders upgrading, digital seems to be getting where we all hoped it was going in the 90's. JMHO |
Oh, I may be at Audio Connection in Verona, NJ tomorrow if anyone is around. I've asked Matt and Richfield so far off line, but I know some of you guys are down that way. Let me know if you may be around. It all depends on whether I have to run up to pick up my daughter at college or not. cheers all. |
Guys, Ayre is working on a ton of digital right now. No, I can't share much as I don't know that much. Their new Codex headphone amp/inexpensive DAC is a KILLER at the price. I use headphone and my OSDE doesn't has a headphone amp, so I use my Music Hall DAC/amp or my Linn Kiko (bedroom system) for personal listening (that sounds almost creepy doesn't it?). Ayre realizes that both analog AND digital filter is important as do a few of the best sounding DAC designers. They also are huge on power and I'm sure their noise floor will be as black as anything else. Lot's of great DAC's out now. I"m loving my OSDE/se right now and feel no need to get the Berkley Ref (my second favorite under 15k, plus I can't afford it right now, lol). I DO however want to eventually upgrade from the Mac Mini I bought from Steve that has that ridiculous power supply, to the Aurender 100L (however I'm waiting on them to double the internal storage that I was told is going to happen in the next 4-6months, but only time will tell). I heard the W20 a year ago and was impressed, but also heard the 100 and thought for the cost it was a killer. I heard the Baetis for an extended period and felt it was very good, however I personally don't like the owner at all. I don't like that he charges you money for tech support after your original time runs out. I also didn't like how he ran down other products. That's for we posters to do, not manufacturer's/distributors. Everyone is coming out with severs now and there are some nice one's out there. I really want one I can just rip to, but one that also will download from a NAS as I want to use one for my Linn Kiko. We all have different needs and hopefully soon, there will be a plethora of servers that will give us everything. I noticed a DVD or Blue ray ripper that can rip 100 at a time. Just load it up at night or before you head out for the day and it's done. Have any of you tried one? I have ton of CD's that would be nice to rip quickly. They are expensive and I was thinking of getting one and then selling it. I have a friend out west who got one with a group of guys and they all shared it and sold it so the cost was minimal. Anything you guys have on this device I'll take. I honestly don't trust my friend's thought other than him saying it didn't jam and ripped WAV, Flac and AIFF using two different ripping programs for bit perfect rips (did I say that correctly). Looking at the newest Qnap fanless NAS. Thoughts as always appreciated guys. Also, a great test when listening to a system is to listen to a man singing S's. I've found on systems that are a bit bright for MY tastes, the sibilance of the note just keeps on going. On systems that I love, it's more controlled and cuts of naturally like it does in person. It was a very interesting test. Jackson Browne is a good choice when auditioning. Have I taken this thread all over the place yet? lol....sorry guys, but we've hit on most cylinders and come back home. |
Matt - I have several orders for ODSX, so I'm building those. I decided on the Duelund caps after testing the Jupiters and they melted... Bass got crazy after they melted... I am shipping it with my original USB module right now. The new USB interface (in beta testing) started working on 176 and 192 after a change I made, so I thought I had fixed it. Next day it didn't work. Bummer. Still experimenting to determine why it worked then not. Second Ethernet module is being prototyped. It is powered up, but not programming from the flash yet. Very excited about this one. It may end up being the default interface for the ODSX. Steve N. |
Hi Steve. Good to hear from you. I'm sure your 805's are something special! Any news to report on the ODSX? I'm still amazed at the performance of the ODSE! Wisnon, you are welcome anytime. Let me know if you can stop by. I'd love to have you. CT Sooner - I have not heard of an Ayre twenty DAC in the pipeline. Do you have privy to secret news? |
I have been listening to speakers and amps for probably 10 years or more at shows where I exhibited. The recent standouts for me are: 1) Wells Audio 2) Morrow Audio (digital amp) 3) Dan Dagastino These all sound very natural and approach the best in tubes. I have recently retired my modded Parasound JC-1's and I'm using SE 805A monoblocks now. These tube amps are wonderful, but the Chinese output tubes only last one year. Trying different tubes soon. Steve N . Empirical Audio |
Matt, I will keep you posted on the Sound Galleries server and if you are real serious, I will try to arrange a demo unit for you. They are great pals of mine and they keep me up to date on the happenings regularly. You know how to reach me if you need any other info that I can help with. I will be in the US for 2 weeks over the Xmas break. Not sure if I make it to your neck of the woods this trip though... |
Hi matt, I for one look forward to your impressions of the Romulus eclipse player, did you get one with the volume control? , I've been told that the volume control is implemented quite well, I understand that you are a pre-amp fan, however, a comparison with this product is justified and appreciated, thankyou Matt for your contribution to audiogon. |
Hi all. Word is that the new Emm DA2 DAC should be arriving late January. Yay! The YFS server is probably going to arrive just after New Year so I’ll compare it to the N10 Aurender then and post comments. I am trying to pursue access to a DCS Rossini to compare to the Emm DA2 once it’s broken in. And BigKidz was nice enough to respond and offered bringing his DAC to my place to let it shine. I’m very curious to see how it will compare to my prized ODSE! I am watching the build of the European Sound Galleries Music Server with great interest as well. John from Audio Connection was kind enough to offer the Eclipse Romulus to audition. I'm all over that as what I heard briefly impressed me. For those potentially interested, my Vienna Acoustics Die Muzik speakers are still available and for sale. I purchased a new Electrocompaniet EMC1mk3 spiner for SACD playback, just to have something decent for the few SACD’s I own. And a second Adona rack which should be coming any day. I also got a Plasmatron, and will hook that up when the rack arrives and will report on that as well. Lots doing. |
Sorry to have missed you Matt. There are a few of us in the NJ area who can get there within a few hours drive. We should try and set up a get together one of these days. Even if we did it on a Sunday, I'm sure I could get Johnny to open the shop for us all to play. We could bring in gear that we'd want to listen to together etc... I had an eye opening day yesterday. Not the forum for it, but I'll try and put together a new thread on my thoughts of listening and why I'm so sensitive to upper mid ringing. Got to hear the Romulus and was impressed to say the least. Very very good CD/DAC, however I've been told the new Eclipse is a KILLER. Some of you guys got to hear it at Audio Connection last week. I'd like to hear more of it vs all the new DAC's coming out. I know that the Ayre DAC being worked on will be special. I may have to call Alex to find out more if he's willing to share ;)...We can keep it just between us all, lol. Now that some of you will get Steve's new DAC, it's going to be interesting as I expect it to go head to head vs the DCS, EMM and all the other reference DACs on the market. The little Codex DAC/Headphone amp from Ayre is a KILLER in it's price range. I feel that it's the best under 4 or even maybe 5k DAC's I've listened to. I've heard it as a DAC and headphone amp (Yes, I'm into head fi too) and it's just a jaw dropping buy IMHO. Lot's of new goodies hitting or about to hit. I'm sure this thread will just keep meandering for us all to enjoy. Thanks so much Matt. |
BigKidZ reached out to me. I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to get back to him. I think he's in NJ. If he wants to bring his DAC over for a day to play id be happy to report. Thanks Wisnon. That Sound Galleries Server looks like it could be terrific. Do you know of a direct web site or email to get onto a mailing list for info? Have fun CT. If I can get there to say hello and join you I will. |
Another DHT DAC with R2R chips in it. Check out: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=icm8ojuu9fpe4n6k814jpbektdcpnkv5&topic=138741.0 The manufacturer (bigkidz) commented in the next to last comment on this post: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/hot-off-the-press-yggdrasil-review $4800 intro price.....going up to $8800 in full production. This is WORTH looking into! |
I"m heading down to Audio Connection on Saturday to audition the Vandy Quatro CT's with the Ayre AX5/20. I will be auditioning the Romulus Eclipses as Johnny is in love with it and Matt had such nice things to say. Sorry I missed you guys at the Aesthetix event. That would have been a blast, but I couldn't make it. Was told by a few that the Vandy 7;s never sounded as good and personally I think they need to be back closer to the wall. But they are so good they can be put anywhere. Glad your Dynaudio's are still blowing you away. Hopefully they will keep doing that for you. It's really fun when you are in that situation with your system isn't it? I'm loving the Aurender servers. Hearing them at a lot of places now and they always sound great regardless of the model. I have heard a few other's and feel the Aurender has sounded better. Lot;s of variables in the equation, but it;s an impressive company for sure. Can't wait to hear about the OSDX too. |
Servers? Check this out: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/sound-galleries-music-server-25805/ more here: |
Sorry for the slow period. I'm hoping to get some listening time in this Wednesday. Word is I will be getting an updated MSB DAC with faster clock to compare to the last one I had in. I'm also getting a YFS fully loaded music server to go head to head with the Aurender N10 which has been getting better and better with burn in. I'm also trying to buy a pair of Shunyata Sigma HC power cords but the guys on the 'gon don't seam to respond to my offers or just decline them without counter-offering. My offers are not low balls, so I'm left sorta scratching my head.... I also may be able to borrow the new Aesthetix Eclipse Romulus to try. It put on quite a show in the brief time I heard it at Johnies. Worth pursuing. I also heard that Steve is about ready to ship his new uber dac, the ODSX. I'd love to get my hands on one! Lots of other suggestions have come up as well. Some I am trying to pursue, others not so much..... I can say, without hesitation, that my Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate speakers get better and better and make me shake my head every time I listen. They are just mind blowingly good speakers.... Stay tuned.... |