I had Kevin build my K&K Audio Trio with one but have rarely needed to use it.
Absolute Polarity Switch
Whenever I play a new CD (my system is single source CD) I listen with the polarity both ways to determine which is right for that recording. Often, that setting works for all the tracks, but sometimes it is mixed, on compilation albums, for example. Once I have determined the best sounding position for that CD (or individual track), I mark it with a red or blue dot sticker.
My understanding of, and experience with, absolute polarity is that you want to match the polarity of the microphones that originally captured the sound, regardless of how many times the polarity may have been flipped between them and the sound coming out of your speakers. The reason for this is that there has never been a universal standard for wiring mics, so it could be either way. If you don’t have a method for changing the polarity of your system, then the odds of it being right (ie best sounding) for any given recording are about 50/50. In simplistic terms this means that half of your music collection will never sound as good as it could. This correlates very well with my experience, as roughly half my CDs sound better one way, and half the other.
Of course, this assumes that all the original mics were wired the same way. This may not be the case, especially with multi-track recordings. Even with these recordings, though, in most cases, I have found one setting preferable to the other.
A few components (mainly preamps) do have an absolute polarity switch (sometimes improperly labeled as “phase”), but most don’t. Without one, you will need to reverse the speaker leads at your amp, in order to switch polarity. Not exactly an easy or practical method. Implementing a polarity switch is relatively easy, if you have transformers somewhere in the signal path. If not, it gets a lot more complicated. My amplifier (Antique Sound Lab Tulip 2A3 SET) has input transformers, so I had a friend help me add a polarity switch to it years ago. Eventually, I hope to acquire a Music First Audio passive TVC pre with polarity switching, freeing me to upgrade my amp. Some may not hear a difference switching polarity, but a polarity switch is not something I want to live without in my system.
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Tommylion, very interesting. It should not make any difference at all and on my system it does not. I can flip back and forth by remote control from the listening position. That is the entire system by the way, main speakers and subwoofers. If you are using subs and not flipping the polarity on them at the same time then it will make a big difference. If you do not have subs then we are left with two possibilities and one is that there is some issue with your system that makes this switch audible. Others have also noted a change with polarity but you have to take what people hear with a grain of salt. They also hear changes with cable elevators. You have to blind them to get a real result. |
mijostyn ... It should not make any difference at all and on my system it does not. I can flip back and forth by remote control from the listening position ...Many users can detect a change in their system’s polarity. It’s dependent on the recording, but sometimes it’s easy to hear the difference. It sounds like your system is concealing the differences between polarities. Given the nature of your system - digital room correction, extreme LF disturbances that cause uncontrolled woofer flapping and LF disturbances that reach below the fundamentals - it’s not a surprise that you can’t hear polarity in your system. I encourage you to examine your system issues before you finally get a turntable back into it. Especially the opinions of those who have already acknowledged the problems in their system. |
mijostyn, It certainly is controversial topic, and even many hard-core audiophiles who hear differences with all kinds of other things don’t address it. If you can’t hear any difference in your system then that’s cool, saves you some trouble. Since discovering I can hear it in my system, I can’t go back. As far as blind testing, I’ve never understood why it would have any relevance for determining what one hears with ones own ears in their own system. If you are trying to scientifically prove to someone else that you hear what you hear, then maybe, but I feel no need to do so. In posting, I am merely sharing my experience, in the hope that some fellow music/home audio enthusiasts might benefit from it. Others can test it in their own systems, ignore it, or ridicule it. Makes no difference as far as my enjoyment of my system. |
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I think I tried reversing the polarity of my speakers once or twice many many years ago and didn't notice a difference, but with upgrading my system drastically over the years, well, maybe I should take another listen. Anythings possible. Of all my recordings, only one Lp had a note about reversing polarity for possible better sound. That was a D2D Lp of Dave Grusin "Discovered Again!" from 1975, Sheffield Labs. |
Read The Wood Effect by Clark Johnsen. Here's an article he wrote as well: https://positive-feedback.com/Issue75/polarily_johnsen.htm |
Another factor is that many (in fact most) loudspeakers have driver(s) in polarity opposite of other driver(s). Wilsons, for one. Not Vandersteens and most ESL’s, though some Maggies do. I spoke with Clark Johnsen at a CES in the 90's (or was it a Stereophile Show?); he was obsesses with the subject, considering it a major factor in reproduced sound quality. I wouldn't go that far. |
The trick is to have a switch, or some other similar means to change it on the fly. Once I installed the switch on my amp, it was very easy to determine which way was better for each recording. To me, the most logical place to have it is on your preamp, or, these days, DAC/pre. I understand it can done easily in the digital domain, but I've never had a digital component with this feature. All I know is that in the analog domain, a switch before or after transformers (ideally you want one switch for both channels) works great. |
scm, it looks like Herron preamps also have a polarity switch (labeled “Invert”) on the front panel, and remote. Very nice! AC polarity is actually a whole different issue, and can of worms. I’ve never heard of a component with a switch like that, cool. LampizatOr makes, or at least used to, a type of power conditioner to deal with this issue: https://www.lampizator.com/the-silk/ |
Absolute. I can switch it on my DAC (RC), my analog expander and it should be simple to DIY a physical switch box for balanced cables between pre and power amp. If one in not commercially available. The situation begs a quality coder to write a plug in for EAC or dBpoweramp so you could get the digital stuff ripped right to begin with. |
My phono pre has a rocker switch, my pre amp a rocker and also a remote control for polarity. I can switch it on the fly from the listening chair via remote. Occasionally I can hear a difference but when I do, it’s pretty subtle. But there can be a slight improvement. This is the second pre amp I’ve had with the feature, same understated result. That’s playing LP’s or CD’s. Generally, I don’t have it set to Invert but I like having the option. |
@tommylion - Your post mirrors exactly the same circumstances for my systems, with the exception that each of my two systems have a switch built in for phase. One is an Aesthetix Calypso preamp and the other is a Luxman 509 integrated. I ended up with the Calypso before I was attuned to phase. It was intentional with the Luxman purchase that it have the capability. The Calypso has a button on the remote and the face of the unit. The 509 has the switch on the rear at the balanced inputs only, implying it isn't possible on the single ended inputs. I suspect the Calypso has the same limitation for balanced inputs only. This only applies to CDs for me as that is the only source medium for my systems. I apply a small square of blue painters tape to the front of each CD case: in phase gets a plus and out of phase gets a minus. In most instances the selection of the preferred orientation is very subtle. In more noticeable circumstances I find a more mono presentation for out of phase and more of a spatial soundstage bloom for in phase. In most discs I don't hear a difference among tracks once I settle on a phase but will need to be more sensitive in the future. It makes me wonder how it translates to streaming sources. Personally, I believe it is a real attribute and should be a listed setting for each recording. The ability to switch it will be in my system(s) for the distant future. |
All Herron line stages include AC polarity (easy to measure and audible) and absolute polarity switches. Absolute polarity can be switched remotely from the listening position. The problem with most absolute polarity switching circuits is that the circuit causes more of an audible change than the absolute polarity of the recording itself. Keith Herron worked really hard at making his circuit inaudible. Your system has to be really fine tuned to easily hear these differences, especially necessary to have the listening and speaker positions spot on among other things. Considering about half of all recording are reversed polarity, in a true audiophile system properly built and set up, this feature would be mandatory. |
@cleeds, believe it or not my system is just fine and so is my hearing. The variance you have here is due almost entirely to psycho acoustic effects and the inability of some people to moderate their opinions based on this traditional human problem. The reason for this opinion and self assurance is that I have thoroughly tested many of these issues, like polarity and there is no difference. How many people do you know who can reverse the polarity of an entire system by remote control from their listening position? This is what you have to be able to do to make this determination. If you have not done this than you have absolutely no idea. None, Zero, Nada. Changing polarity on an entire system has no effect on sound quality. Changing the polarity of subwoofers only will definitely change the sound for obvious reasons as will changing the polarity of the main speakers only and not the subs. As I have said before, what other people hear in terms of sound quality is of very little consequence to me. Human hearing is not designed to make these determinations and most audiophiles have absolutely no idea what they are listening to in regards to such things as frequency response. Cleeds, what is the exact frequency response of your system. Do you know at all what kind of response you like? Have any group delays? |
mijostyn @cleeds, believe it or not my system is just fine and so is my hearing.I think it's great that you're happy with your system as-is. You've already acknowledged a number of problems with it - including LF disturbances that are lower in frequency than the fundamentals and woofer flapping that requires rumble filtering - but if you're happy that's what counts. The variance you have here is due almost entirely to psycho acoustic effects and the inability of some people to moderate their opinions based on this traditional human problem.Gee, you make it sound like you've actually heard my system. But you haven't, so this is just a guess on your part. (It's not a good guess, either.) The reason for this opinion and self assurance is that I have thoroughly tested many of these issues, like polarity and there is nodifference.Your "thoroughly tested" methods are at odds with what many others report. How many people do you know who can reverse the polarity of an entire system by remote control from their listening position?Many can easily do this. That's why many preamps have that "invert" function. It's how I know that absolute polarity can be audible, depending on the recording. This is what you have to be able to do to make this determination. If you have not done this than you have absolutely no idea. None, Zero, Nada.It's trivially easy to do this. I'm not sure why you portray it as some extraordinary achievement. Changing polarity on an entire system has no effect on sound quality.I accept that as true regarding your system. As I have said before, what other people hear in terms of sound quality is of very little consequence to me.That may explain why your system has no many issues - you just can't accept that others have long ago resolved problems that you either ignore or treat with Band-Aids. |
