Dear Mike: +++++ " but it seems to me that getting the speed right, and i mean really, really right....... is the hard part and by far the most important part in music reproduction in the analog domain. " +++++
Absolutely true: a must to have!! this " simple " fact makes a paramount difference on the enjoy level of music home system reproduction.
Right now I'm looking for a Studer A-80 that some one is offering me, this guy show me that machine running against a Tandberg one and like in your case no contest against the Studer where the speed stability is astonishing.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Chris: +++++ There is plenty of evidence that suggests that it is audible, but nothing that I would consider proof. A scientific measurement would be interesting but would tell us nothing about audibility. Only our ears can tell us that. " +++++
Agree, I know that the subject is very complex maybe more that I can understand.
Anyway what you and Mike argue about give us a better understanding on the stylus drag issue.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Every post here misses the most important and overlooked point in this discussion of speed accuracy. While it's a laudable and important goal, fetishing on speed perfection as the sole goal of turntable design misses that the eccentricity of virtually every record you own will produce greater effective speed error than any speed deviation found in a properly executed design, regardless of whether it's belt, direct drive, idler wheel or whatever. Records and record playback is a terribly imperfect technology. That it still sounds the best despite the imperfections is miraculous. If you want perfection get a CD player.
---Michael Fremer |
Grooves, You make an excellent and valid point. So, what do you personally think accounts for the qualitative difference in sound between the best direct-drives and idler-drive tables on the one hand and belt-drive tables on the other? We all or most of us seem to agree that such a difference exists, except maybe as regards the very best belt-drive tables (not necessarily the most expensive). Couldn't it be that we are hearing an additive effect of speed instability due to the turntable on top of speed instability due to eccentrically cut records (i.e., nearly all of them)? What might be happening is that the brain learns to accept the sound from a given LP, good or bad, as a baseline for comparison of turntable performance. Most of us use LPs with which we are very familiar in the turntable comparison process. |
I'm not sure anyone has said speed perfection is the sole goal. Obviously, taking that approach would lead to problems elsewhere, most of which would mask any benefit of perfect speed.
CD = perfection? That's a whole different topic itself, but I get your intent.
We have this tiny diamond, at times wiggly back and forth and up and down at some pretty high frequencies. Assuming that the cartridge is good enough to not skip even in the slightest, that has to have some effect on something, IMO. Those of us who use the mylar belts have heard remarkable improvements with different versions of the mylar streamers and, most notably, with Paul's latest trick of etching away the metal to expose the textured side of the mylar. Something is going on. |
CD = Perfection... except for jitter. Timing errors seem to be an achillies heel for both analog an digital. |
Dear grooves: IMHO I don't think that that poit was missed, things are that we were argue on TT speed accuracy and speed stability and what could alter the platter speed stability.
This subject beguin with a comment that Doug posted about stylus drag and its influence on that platter speed stability and that's why we don't go in deep to any other source ( other that the TT it sef ) that affect about.
We all know that the analog source is probably the most imperfect " world " to music reproduction but at the same time I know too that the ones in this forum agree that the analog source is the most beautiful and enjoyable one for a home muic reproduction other than a live event or a Studer one with original master recordings.
As always things are that everything has its own trade-offs, take the TX-1000 that fix the eccentricity of the LP, well it is not a perfect machine from the point of view about its tonearm or about its DD motor or suspention: anyway is worth to hear it only because its eccentricity fix function.
Now, IMHO the digital source is almost perfect but like Teres point out it is not " perfect ", btw nothing is.
All that analog imperfection world makes that any one of us ( including a pro-reviewer like you ) that cares about music and about music reproduction have to take extremely care on the right set up and right choice of hardware ( synergy, the real one not for compensate errors in the audio chain. ) at each link in the whole audio chain.
Some of us are truly " perfeccionist " about ( that's why we discuss about the relationship between stylus drag and platter spped un-stabilities. ), my point of view is that pro-reviewers must be ( at least ) in the same way and for what I read through your reviews and other people reviews some are far from there.
My thoughts about pro-reviewers is that al these very special people have a great responsability: help for the analog high-end grow up faster and with real quality improvements in any step that the analog industry take it.
It is sad for me to say that certainly ( today ) that is not what is happening from my point of view ( I could name it many examples of that ). This is not the time or the thread to analyze in deep about, I hope that over the time all us have the opportunity to return on the subject because we need to improve, we need to be better, we need to " dream " again.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
I can point to one thing that no-one seems to be talking about here. If you have a servo system controlling the motor speed, then you will experience a phenomena known as 'hunting'. This is where the servo detects that the speed is off and compensates for it. Actually, in order to do that, it has to overcompensate. So now the speed is off in the other direction, so the process repeats.
If you look at the resulting speed stability, it looks a bit like a sine wave.
Now there are ways to reduce this effect, for example by cutting the motor/platter system out of the loop, so the 'speed stability' insofar as the servo is concerned is limited to the frequency stability of the servo's inner clocks. Some servos ignore the platter and simply focus on the motor shaft rpm. Whatever the approach (and I am grossly oversimplifying this whole thing), one thing that can be counted on is that if you have a servo, its likely that it is off speed while you are listening.
Technics did an admirable job with the SP10 in that it was the first and IME the *only* DD wherein the servo issues had been developed well enough that the table actually brought home the bacon. Most of the servos I see for BD tables are inadequate, but I've not seen everything out there by any means.
Synchronous motors and eddy current motors are locked to the line frequency which is regulated by the power utility company. Power utility speed stability is very exact; their hunting cycle takes a few hours under normal circumstances. That allows for the possibility for such motors to be the most speed stable. This is why, I think, that rim drive has resurfaced after decades of being the black sheep (due to noise and lack of precision). This is also, I think, why a BD table with such motors can also exhibit the same stability.
This is a far more pronounced issue than stylus drag, however I should point out that a weak servo or weaker motor will indeed have stylus drag issues- in servicing hundreds of tables over the years, I have seen the effect be quite measurable, although not on any table with a robust drive.
One thing you will see that the SP10 has in common with other 'speed stable'/'stylus drag resistant' machines is that it also has a robust drive.
So, IMO, a machine that will truly speed stable will have a heavy platter, a robust motor and either a **very well** thought out and executed servo, or none at all. What will not be a variable is the actual drive itself- belt, DD or rim, they are all going to work if properly executed. |
I would imagine that pitch fluctuations caused by stylus drag are less than pitch fluctations caused by 1)variations in motor speed itself, 2) Groove's eccentricities, and 3) record warps causing speed fluctuations as the stylus must effectively move faster over bumps to complete one revolution at 33-1/3.
The last is quite audible if you have an even slightly warped test record that includes a steady pitch (assuming, of course, that the steady pitch was steadfastly done).
Intuition only, does anybody care to do some measurements?
Jeff |
Jj2468, I should have mentioned this before. There are various types of speed anomalies that that are not manifested as pitch fluctuations. Very short term speed variations show up as smearing, lack of detail and often harshness. Longer term, shallow variations tend to make the sound sluggish and dull. Only a small subset of problems in a drive system sound like pitch variations.
It's interesting that the benefits from jitter reduction with digital playback sounds much like what I hear with improved analog drive technology.
Chris |
There's a lot to catch up on in this thread, and I'll do my best to be brief and yet thorough ... well ... maybe not brief ...
Speed Errors.
There are various types which correlate to the magnitude and distribution of the error. Chris alluded to this in the stylus drag discussion. At the lowest level is IM distortion discussed in my post above, and loosely equivalent to digital jitter in the sense that we don't hear this as pitch change or wavering but rather as a combination of harshness, a paradoxically rolled off top end, and bleached out harmonics in the mid-bass. As we work our way to longer time domains, we begin to hear timing errors - like the band isn't completely on the beat. Increasing the time domain further, we begin to hear shifts in imaging and pitch until we reach a point where nausea sets in for some of us. It's important to make these distinctions when we talk about speed.
Selection of Music.
I agree in general that acoustic music is critical to understanding what's going on, but this focus on period instruments is more a point of familiarity and reference for our friends on this list than anything else. It provides one (and I emphasize one) means of triangulating on the truth.
For an alternate, equally valid reality, listen to Bill Monroe, Doc Watson, Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, acoustic Jorma Kaukonen, John Fahey, Cal Tjader, Charles Mingus, Kathleen Battle, Talking Heads, Scissor Sisters, etc. and they'll all tell you something equally important about what's going on with your rig.
One of my favorite torture tests is to play a capable soprano going full tilt. Dense music has its place as well, and in this category, you can learn as much from Heavy Metal (even though I don't like it) as you can from full scale romantic pieces.
Rock 'n roll and other electronic music presents a challenge to understanding what's going on, but well recorded rock can also tell you things that you can't hear with acoustic music. You have to be watchful however. Listen to Neil Young playing his beat up Fender Tweed Deluxe, and if you know the sound of those amps and their harmonic overtones, it's unmistakable when a system gets this right.
Period music (Academy of Ancient Music) will tell you about subtlety, nuance and such. Other genres will tell you something different. When we had our Saturday night after hours session at the Audiofest, Palasr brought an AC controller which we listened to (designed by the same fellow who's working with Win on the Saskia controller as well as with us). Well, we're still hunting down a 3-phase motor, and the 2-phase we were driving was relatively crude sounding compared with our legacy controller.
If you listened only to pop and rock, this crudeness would have been lost on you, as bass lines had nice punch to them. A shift to acoustic music told the rest of the story however. Drej and Palasr will agree, I'm sure. One of the main dangers of trying to reach a conclusion when listening to electric music is that the distortions in the recording process can be masked by electronic distortions in your system.
In my humble opinion, a system needs to do it all, and if you limit yourself while you're evaluating, you may well be limiting your ultimate outcome. So, if you listen only to period instruments, should you also invite Jazzdoc over with his Scissors Sisters records. The reverse would be true as well - don't listen only to electric.
Ultimately, you're making choices, but listening to all different sorts of music at a minimum will expose you to different worlds, and the fellow who tells me that Woody Guthrie doesn't have a story to tell me and that all of the valid music was composed by white guys who died a hundred years ago is equally self-limiting as is the reverse. Ultimately, even if you listen to music written by dead white guys, you can still learn a lot that's relevant to you by listening to modern music occasionally.
Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier |
Back in 2002 Audio Asylum correspondent Klaus discovered a letter in a 1967 issue of the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society where RCA reported some measurements they had made of speed variations caused by stylus drag. Using a metal master, the RCA engineers measured a 0.078% speed change when playing a silent groove and a 0.079% speed change with a modulated groove. The speed change was even lower on a vinyl record, 70% of that measured with the metal disc. Since the difference between playing a modulated and a silent groove on a metal master was 0.001% (0.079% - 0.078%), and a vinyl record reduced that difference to 70%, the real speed change caused by a modulated groove would be .7 x .001% or 0.0007%. That's 2/10000 of an RPM for a 33 1/3 RPM LP. I really doubt that anyone can hear the difference between 33.3333 RPM and 33.3331 RPM. In any case that speed change caused by stylus drag would seem to be buried beneath the wow and flutter of even the most stable turntables.
Of course those measurements are over 40 years old now and I suppose that today's much better stylii might have even lower drag and speed change. It would be nice to have contemporary measurements of the phenomenon but until someone repeats the RCA experiments stylus drag would seem to be inconsequential. |
Robdoorack,
Interesting stuff, but not necessarily conclusive of anything. Read the posts by Teres and Thom Mackris just above (well, some of Thom's anyway!). Depending on the time span over which "speed" is measured, the effects of stylus drag may produce no measured difference at all, yet may still be audible.
Consider this analogy:
A. You decide to time me running laps around a track, but the seat you chose to observe from can only see the start/finish line. It has no view of what's in between.
B. You observe that I pass the start/finish line precisely once each minute, so you conclude (correctly, from your perspective) that I'm travelling at a steady 4 minutes/mile clip (assuming a 1/4 mile track).
C. What you don't know, because your chosen vantage point doesn't let you see it, is that half the circumference of the track is actually a foot deep pool of water. This slows me down to 8 minutes/mile speed, but I make it up by blazing through the dry half of the circuit at 2 minutes/mile speed.
D. Your limited resolution of measurement (you can only see and measure in whole laps) leads you to the false conclusion that I'm running at a steady pace. The reality is that my speed is varying all over the place. Only the long term average is steady.
E. A turntable with a motor/drive system that allows deceleration due to drag, but then re-accelerates to faster than average speed when the drag is removed, could easily maintain a perfect AVERAGE speed of 33 1/3 rpm, while producing audible or even horrible sonic speed changes that a once-per-revolution measurement would never detect. A longer period of measurement would be proportionately less likely to detect them.
So, the experiment quoted was vaguely interesting, but proves virtually nothing. The human ear is vastly more capable of detecting short term speed changes than the crude experiment you described.
Doug
P.S. If anyone ever observes me running 4 minute miles, please let me know!
|
Robdoorack, Thanks for the interesting data. The measurable deviation cited was more than I would have expected. As Doug points out the measurement time period is very significant. Most people are not able to detect relatively large errors in average speed. For the majority of us the threshold is more than 0.1% and nobody can detect a 0.0007% error. However short term deviations are a different matter. It is well documented that digital jitter of 10 picoseconds is audible. That's a short term deviation of 0.000000001%, one billionth of a percent! So it should not surprise us that a short term analog speed deviation 10,000 times greater would be audible. |
Wow some interesting reading. The speed issue has been with us from the beginning of vinyl playback right. We all have accepted the fact cause were here. I am in constant adjustment between lps. Observation done with a KAB strobe on top of my center weight as I am able to check when playing a lp. I am tuned to hear pitch changes and thats the reason for the constant checking and tweaking. All of the reasons are known for this yet there is no drive system that will remove our drag problem that i am aware of.
In the end though the sound of vinyl play back is so far superior to digital that i can live with the drag in my hearing. IMO
No pun intended ha. |
yet there is no drive system that will remove our drag problem that i am aware of. hummmmmm. as far as stylus drag/groove modulation.....i think that the Rockport Sirius III's drive system may solve this issue. you have an pure induction direct drive motor with zero torque ripple, a 55 pound platter, an air bearing, and a servo system (coaxially mounted optical encoder) which samples the speed every .000001 of a second. the only support i have for my opinion besides the design description is the unique way that the Rockport handles musical peaks to my ears. until one hears it on a familiar Lp it's easy to dismiss the signficance of it. a side note on the servo; when it is engaged a green LED flashes to red. the servo is never engaged unless the 'floating 250 pound plinth' is bumped or if someone jumps up and down on the floor in front of the tt. once the platter reaches speed it stays there. there is no hunting occuring. stylus drag does not cause the servo to engage on the Sirius III that i have observed. maybe the servo engages without the LED flashing, but i don't think it works that way. i have a Technics SP-10 Mk2 sitting next to the Rockport which does a very good job on this issue.....but not at the Sirius III level of naturalness and continuousness. of course; there are more differences between the SP-10 and the Sirius besides stylus drag to cause these differences. there may be other tt's which are able to do this same (stylus drag/continuousness) thing equal or better but i've not heard that. anyway; stylus drag can be solved.....but it's not easy to do. |
Great post Mike. Is there another turntable that might match the Rockport? I don't know but this is an interesting proposition.
Imagine for a moment a turntable with 1.1 tons per CM2 moment of inertia, driving a copper laminated platter that weighs 10KG and starts in 0.25 of a second.
Imagine this same turntable has the second lowest rumble (noise) ever measured in ANY turntable, figures of 98A via (DIN 45 507) and exhibited speed variation of zero (unmeasurable) up to applied forces of 10 KG per CM.
The force required to cause error is the equivalent of 1000 tonearms, all tracking at 2g each. Speed error remains +/- 0.001% and wow and flutter is 0.015% WRMS.
Pretty amazing for a turntable that's now 20 years (+) old. Unfortunately they sell used for $6000.00 and up to $10,000.00 in new condition.
It's the Technics SP10 MK3 |
Albert,
thanks. and i'm excited to read about the technical merits of the Mk3 drive system. it's all your fault i've dived into these vintage dd tt's.
i'll be shipping my Technics SP-10 Mk3 to Dobbins on Monday so he can work his magic with it. then we'll see how it compares to the Rockport and the Mk2.
are you listening to your Mk3 yet? |
Dear friends: I like Mike, Robdoorak, Albert and some others think that the stylus drag exist but does not means that a Rockport/SP-10/Walker/Verdier/Micro Seiki/Garrad/etc/etc change its speed stability due to a VTF of 1.5grs and if it did/ do there is no single proof that can tell you that what you are hearing is due to that change in speed on the platter TT due to the stylus drag.
I know that our ears are very sensible not only to minute speed platter changes but how ay one ( like Doug ) can affirm that can hear it and that it is for the stylus drag, how Doug can separate those minutes speed changes due to stylus drag from other sources about, Doug IMHO if you are hearing that maybe someting wrong with your Teres and if you are hearing in other TTs maybe a bad set up, you say that what Robdoorack posted say nothing and IMHO what you think you are hearing say nothing about till you can prove it in an objective way.
Again in this very complex subject IMHO we need a scientific measures ( first we have to " create " a methodology of the measurements to be precise how/where/wich we have to take the test. We have to be precise with which kind of record modulation, at inner of the platter? or at the middle of it?. It is really complex even to have the right measures methodology/estrategy. ) about with 3-4 different TT where the TT/tonearm ( whic one ( s )/cartridge ( which cartridge ( s )/platform be perfect or near perfect, till we have it and prove that we can hear it for sure ( speed changes due to stylus drag. ) I think that it is useless to discuss about.
Doug, I always think that you are a wise man: I wonder why you insist on this extremely complex subject where you can't prove it!, maybe I'm missing something because I can't understand your whole attitude about.
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
No MK3 yet, but the platform for it to sit on is supposed to be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully the plinth is no more than another week after that.
Dobbins says the MK3 is better than the MK2, I don't know how much better but assume he's right, he's very conservative with opinions.
A crazy thing just happened, suggest you contact Louis or any member of my group for confirmation. I already told Dobbins and he is supposed to do a test.
I replaced all the fuses in the MK2 and MK3 power supplies (10 fuses total) with the Hi Fi tuning from Cable Company. Everyone in my group raved about the difference all last Tuesday evening. (Listening to MK2 only of course).
Power supply always seems to be a big deal, and this one has already had all the caps replaced with Black Gates and Nishicon's, the stock cord cut and replaced with high quality IEC male. The AC cord is now a Purist Audio Anniversary and the internal supply wire was replaced with Purist 12 gauge conductors.
Who would think 5 fuses would be so audible when all those other upgrades are already in place? Or maybe that's why they are so easy to hear, everything in the chain seems to be a big deal and the more you peel the onion the more is revealed.
I can hardly wait to hear how the MK3 performs, especially since it will be fitted with the Air Tight Supreme. I'm very seriously considering the Koetsu Coral for my MK2, to replace the Air Tight PC-1.
That way I would have the best of Koetsu and best of Air Tight. Could be very cool take on the music from two excellent sources. |
Raul,
i think we are going a bit in circles here (and i'm part of that problem) as we are back to the whole 'proof of cause/effect of stylus drag' issue......when the issue is not likely one to be proved other than by listening.
i wrote a long response here and then realized it was almost an identical response to your earlier 'almost identical' post.
so i'll let things go for now.
cheers, |
Albert,
that sounds exciting.....isn't it grand when something which seems to be soooo good.....becomes 'gooder' and 'for cheap'. i'm glad it's not some $2k power cord at least.
hopefully Dobbins will let me know what i need to do to cash in on your discovery.
it will be awhile before my budget recovers to where the Coral Stone and PC-1 Supreme are options.....but they were already in my gunsights. i'll have to settle for my vdH Colibri's for now. i'm sorta tt poor and RTR poor at the moment (according to the wife).
of course; i could always sell the Rockport to fund my adventures (like the Walker did yours). one must choose.....
but i'm not complaining....... |
of course; i could always sell the Rockport to fund my adventures (like the Walker did yours). One must choose.....
but I’m not complaining....... If you were able to replace the Rockport with a MK3, what a pile of cash you would have. You would be far better off than me, the Rockport is worth three times what a used Walker sells for. With that in mind, if the MK3 got within 5% I would be tempted to pocket the cash and go mad for software and whatever cartridges you want. Who knows, these new cartridges could be as big as turntable differences. I'm hearing such incredibly strong feedback on the Supreme, i can hardly wait to get mine running. Comments on the Koetsu Coral have been pouring out for what seems forever. I just wish the Coral was not so expensive. |
Dear Mike: Yes, you are right.
regards and enjoy the music.
raul. |
Albert and Mike,
Care to share your impressions of this year's RMAF?
Thanks,
Dre |
I always love RMAF, it's my favorite audio show. Lots of rooms this year sounded nice, overall better than typical CES showrooms.
The surprise came from Classic Audio's new field coil drivers. It was an amazing upgrade from last years RMAF, and I'm not really a horn speaker guy. I was also stunned by the Oswald Mills room, I fell in love with the rim drive Saskia table and slate plinth. Wish I could hear one in my own system.
Since I was doing photo coverage, I was literally running from room to room, just hoping to not leave anyone out. It would have been a lot more fun if I could have cruised around listening, like everyone else.
I had a great time at dinner with Mike Lavigne, Guido and David Stevens, we were supposed to go to a private showing at a manufacturers home after the show, but got lost driving around.
The Audiogon get together at the Mexican restaurant was a high point, meeting members face to face (we wore our Audiogon names on badges).
I always enjoy seeing manufacturers and designers that are friends, some that's I've known for 30 years or more.
Audiogon Arnie was there too, but was little more than a blur going by, he was capturing video which is more of a pain that stills. |
Albert,
The Classic Audio and Oswald Rooms were special.
Your taste seems to be similar to mine. I know you are Koestu fan, so I really hope you get your hands on a Koetsu Coral Stone, as you have been thinking about. It really is special, and leagues above your former Koetsu Jade and PC1, IMHO.
Actually, I recently brought my front end equipment: Garrard 301 in Dobbins Plinth/SME V/Koetsu Coralstone/Doshi Phono over to Classic Audio Repducitons for a listen, two speakers sytems went up for sale after the 8 hour listening session, mine and my friend's who came with me. My front end took the sound heard at Rocky Mountain to a much higher level if you can believe that!!!! I think even John Wolf of Classic Audio would agree it is a very special listening session. The speed of the Field Coils and the textural layering of the Koestu Coralstone it was magic.
I am planning a trip soon to Oswald Mills to do the same listening session, before I buy my "lifetime" speaker. The finish line is in sight ; 0 )
David
|
David,
What model of Classis Audio Reproductions were you listening to? T1, or T3? And what is the difference?
Did you take your Shindo to them too?
Incidentally, I was looking at the same speakers to upgrade to, and I have Doshi MkI as well.
BTW, how much are T1 and T3? It's not clear from their website if the price is for a single speaker, or a pair. |
Maril,
I listened to both T1 & T3.
T-1'S WITH FIELD COIL FRONT WOOFER, FIELD COIL MID RANGE, FIELD COIL SUPER TWEETER.
T-3'S WITH FIELD COIL WOOFER, MID AND SUPER TWEETER
The T-3's in their full Filed Coil Configuration have a lot of the Magic of the T'1. But the larger T1's with the newly designed Edgar horn is a smoother sound, and worth the price difference.
If you were at RMAF and heard the smaller T3's they did not have the Field Coil Woofer. Adding the the filed coil woofer to the T3 is a MUST. When we swapped out woofers between field coil and non field coil the difference was AMAZING.
Regarding pricing, these are modular designs determine your budget and build over time if necessary or buy the in the configuration heard at RMAF cost is $36,500.
|
|
Albert,
The Classic Audio and Oswald Rooms were special.
Your taste seems to be similar to mine. I know you are Koetsu fan, so I really hope you get your hands on a Koetsu Coral Stone, as you have been thinking about. It really is special, and leagues above your former Koetsu Jade and PC1, IMHO. Perhaps we do hear alike, or at least treasure the same strengths in audio reproduction. I'm very happy for you to have found a combination of pieces to excite you as much as it has. That, in the end is what all of us are looking for. As for Koetsu, I'm reasonably sure it will be Coralstone and Air Tight Supreme as my reference pair of cartridges. |
I've been sitting on these notes since the RMAF in hopes of adding more as time goes on. Unfortunately, I haven't made time to write more thoughts. Therefore, I'll just post the first three rooms I started writing about.
Hope you enjoy....
RMAF 2008
The Saskia turntable in the Oswaldsmill Audio room.
I didn’t get to spend as much time as I would have liked in this room but I did get to hear two of the more difficult Classical LP I had brought along with me. One of them was by chance because I entered the room during the middle of a Liszt piano sonata performed by Nojima. This LP was in my bag of LPs I brought along. This is a very well recorded (and performed) piece of music. The table was my main focus so I tried to listen through the rest of the electronics and the speakers. The sound throughout the mid-band was very good as well as the top end of the spectrum. Win’s table is very sturdy, dynamic, and engaging. This aspect of the music was conveyed very well. Once the gentleman before me was finished with his LP, I asked to play one of my own. Having heard what I thought was a bit of slowness in the lower register of the piano on the Liszt Sonata, I asked Win to play a piece of music performed by bassist Gunter Klaus. This is a modern piece of music by Jean Francaix called Concerto pour contrebasse et orchestre (1974). I asked Win to start with the second movement since it would get to the meat of my curiosity. What I heard was very good tracking and solid playback through all three movements. This confirmed for me the quality of the turntable is excellent. I must say however that there was a slowness in the bass along with a bit of bloat in the low 30Hz range. The majority of the bloat is most likely an issue with room setup and show conditions. The speakers or the amps driving them did not capture the lower registers of the piano on the Nojima recording and this was confirmed to my ears on the Gunter Klaus performance. In the context of the show, this was a very satisfying listening session. The sound, save for the lowest register of bass that is lost or not fully captured by many systems costing much, much, more than these electronics/speakers, was one of two 4th floor oasis’ for me.
The Ridge Street Audio Sasons
Each time I entered this room, the music was being played at a modest level. Having the system sourced from a server discouraged me from asking to play some of my favorite music pieces that I had brought along on the silver disc. However, even though some of the music was more mainstream including one of the few rooms playing Patty Barber, the sound on the three or four visits was warm and non-fatiguing. These big little speakers did a very good job at the levels they were being played. I have a local audio pal that will be getting a pair of these soon and now I understand why he’s so excited to get them. These speakers were an oasis for the 4th floor…
Matrix Audio
This year the Matrix crew had the dCS Puccini SACD player, Lamm Electronics , and Tidal speakers combined to make great sound. It was unfortunate that this room didn’t have the ability to playback vinyl. I had to enjoy Clark Terry via and SACD. I know the SACD is not as dynamic as the original vinyl pressing but it was a very pleasant experience nonetheless. This room was my 5th floor oasis pick. |
