The nazis liked Wagner because he wrote antisemitic articles and harbored antisemitic sentiments. Plus his music glorified Germanic myths and history. I'm certainly not claiming that the nazis had any particular liking for classical music, only if it served their needs and their image of themselves.
In fact many "decadent" composers and other artists were maligned and persecuted, Jewish or not. Past composers with Jewish roots, such as Mendelsohnn, were looked down upon even though he was a Christian.
Sadly, Jewish composers who were not able to escape met worse fates. |
Schubert writes:
It does nor demean any other form,time, society ,nation,race or culture to state the obivious and that is the music of Bach,Mozart,Beethoven,Schubert et al is the greatest artistic acheivment of the human race.
That statement demeans EVERY other form, time, society, nation, race and culture.
Asserting that the superiority of this music is OBVIOUS doesn't change the basis of your assessment. Putting pop music aside, this statement demeans the serious (i.e. classical) music tradition of other cultures (again, Indian music comes quickly to mind) and other times (today, for instance). You assert the superiority of a widely (tho not universally) accepted high water mark of a specific culture over the best of all other cultures.
Either you have really unusual breadth of knowledge of the music of the world or your statement is presumtuous. |
Back to the original "12 Facts". They are facts, no big whoop, things have changed; that was then, this is now.
Who expects the Beatles to be the biggest thing for all time?
Disappointing, encouraging, neutral (where I fit in, I guess) depends on ones perspective.
Thanks "buzzfeed" for stimulating some interesting discussion! Better "buzzfeed" than "buzzkill" I always say. 8^)
PS: I've never actually said that but I thought it was catchy. |
I just hope that hip-hop/rap/modern R&B era will subside and guitar reefs, sax pyrotechnics, piano solos will increase their magnitude. Last 20 years it's been gradually getting thinner and thinner. Still didn't loose my hope for musical reincarnation. There are still guitars, pianos, violins, brass instruments for sale at the music stores. Hopefully they will be there. |
The Fab 4 started as no better then a teen pop act so its all relative, there was nothing close to brilliant in the early days. |
Chadnliz... How can you honestly say that the likes of Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie shouldn't be categorized as “brilliant”. |
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She loves you yea yea yea? I wanna hold your hand? Lady Gaga writes more intellectual lyrics then Beatles in their infancy. The Beatles became brilliant but at the start, not even close. |
All fame is fleeting, and it gets more fleeting as time passes. |
Indian Classical Music?
It is quite nice,probaly why it sells out venues ALL over Asia whilst poor Mozart scarcely draws at all. |
Schubert:
Be nice. After all, this is an age in which all things have to be treated and valued equally. Otherwise big brother will fall on you. And he is heavy. |
Another example of over rated western music.
Handel
Messiah
Boston Baroque
Martin Pearlaman
Telarc
a different sort of Messiah. Smaller group. Great stuff. |
Schubert....so ticket sales are your measuring stick? And THAT's what establishes Mozart as the pinnacle of human artistic expression. Now I got it!
I also note your deep familiarity with the alternative classical traditions. It is this full appreciation of context that animates your judgement as to the superiority of Mozart, Schubert, et. al.
Upon reflection, I now see that there is no cultural bias in your posts.
Marty
BTW, you been following the economics of classical music lately? The are just over 300 million people in this country and (last I looked) +/- 30 classical radio stations (not one of which is economically self-sufficient). As a statistical matter, virtually no one cares about Mozart. Institutions and a very small number of wealthy, self-perceived cultural elites subsidize (and have always subsidized) Mozart. And THAT money is all about maintaining the perception of superiority of the culture it represents.
To be clear, I am not denigrating the music you love. I'm merely highlighting the sweeping generalizations you've made in an effort to establish its "superiority" to other forms of music (and, when you're on a roll, all other artistic expression). |
Well ,this is a forum where sweeping generalizations are about as much energy an old man like me can expand.
Wealthly people are on Symphony boards etc, but the slim
support for classical music in the US is centered in middle income groups like teachers etc.
Wealthly money is spent in self-promotion.
If anyone cares to make an arguement that the West is now,always has been and always will be bacically a POS they wouldn't
provoke one from me.
One the premise that even a broken clock is right twice a day however,I have no doubt that Euro-centerd Classical Music is the worlds greatest art form which ipso-facto makes it very much an aquired taste. |
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"The are just over 300 million people in this country and (last I looked) +/- 30 classical radio stations (not one of which is economically self-sufficient). As a statistical matter, virtually no one cares about Mozart."
Interesting, when I think of classical music I don't even think of this country. Europe is the birth place and center. Read!! Classical music is not a niche market in Europe. It is alive and well. |
Some places in Europe maybe.when I first lived in Berlin in the early 60's I would guess that Classical had perhaps 20% of the market,it still is the best place in the world
for the classical lover but if classical has 10% of the market I'd be surprised. Sex,drugs and rock and roll uber alles!
The best classical audiences in the world currently(excepting Japan) are in some of the former Soviet countries notably Hungary.Poland,Latvia and Estonia.
I was at a performance of Tosca at the Budapest Operahouse
3 yrs ago( SRO) where probaly over half of the crowd seemed to be under 30,which astonished me.
As any serious student of American History knows, the most powerful currents that run throughout it are racism and anti-intellectualism.which gives us the disdain for "egghead" pursuits that is largely missing in Europe wherever ones taste resides.
I once heard an American in France make the quintessical
american unaswerable putdown "if you are so smart why aren't you rich"(in perfect French),the half dozen French students at the table has no idea what that meant.
To them it was a totally meaningless concept. |
I would not tie the importance, influence and above all the staying power of classical music to market share. The best of any art, engineering or any other endeavor is most often just enjoyed by the few. it would seem to me, looking from afar that the UK has a very robust classical music enviroment. The many orchestras and the Proms etc.... they seem to promote and nuture their young artist. |
"French students at the table has no idea what that meant."
which tells you all you need to know about that ridiculous country. |
"Classical music is not a niche market in Europe. It is alive and well."
My sister just spent a week in Vienna and when I asked she told me she had no prayer of going to the opera there due to demand and ticket costs. |
Schubert, how about Sex, Drug and Opera?
Ever thought about it? Not onto any drugs, except would never mind a drag of good pot(possibly with cute date) followed by any descent Cabernet before the live classical performance.
Have to 100% agree that only in US the quality of grey substance in the head is measured by dollar. |
Rok2id, to call France ridiculous displays profound ignorance. |
Mapman,tell Sis to hit Berlin,4 Opera companies,reasonable prices, no waiting. |
