SUT help


Hello all,

I've combed the forums and pretty much every SUT thread either devolves into arguments of the merits for/against, or gets hyper specific. I'm assuming to properly match a SUT, it needs to be selected based on the cartridge AND phono pre-amp. Since I haven't found a thread about my specific combo...here I am.

I don't know a TON about SUTs, but I'd like to experiment to see if adding one will enhance my experience.

Currently, my cartridge is a Hana ML and my phono pre-amp is the Modwright PH 9.0XT. I may possibly move up to the Hana Umami Red in the nearish future, but the specs are fairly similar between that and the ML.

Hana ML specs: 0.4mv; 7 ohm/1khz
Hana Umami Red specs: 0.4mv; 6 ohm/1khz

Modwright PH 9.0xt - MM input is 52db gain, with option to lower -6 and -12 to 46db and 40db.

I currently use the MC input which offers 64db of gain (-6, -12). I've typically kept it at 64db and alternate between 100ohm and 250ohm for load impedance settings. The 470 is too much.

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Not sure if its possible to have a SUT that would work well with both the ML and umami red, but if so, I'm all ears. If not and they each need specific ones, I'd be considering the ML first and foremost.

Any help is appreciated. I don't really have any clue how to determine what ratio is best and whether copper or silver pair better with these cartridges. I had EM/IA recommended to me in the past, but their pricing is well beyond what I'd like to spend on one (~$1500 or less, ideally?)

128x128mmcgill829

@elliottbnewcombjr @lewm @mmcgill829 Here is something you all might want to consider. Audio transformers of all types make distortion. If they are not loaded properly they will make more distortion but you can never make them distortion-free no matter how well they are matched to the system in which they are used.

This is because of something called the 'hysterisis curve'. With a simple sine wave the distortion can be fairly low, but since the curve runs through all 4 quadrants, when the signal is more complex the distortion will be far more complex as well, meaning you get more than just a simple 2nd harmonic!

Its unavoidable if you use a transformer.

Put another way, if you don't want to color the sound, if you want to hear the music with the least amount of distortion, avoiding a transformer at the input to the audio chain is probably a good idea (if you have enough gain otherwise); there is no way to reduce that distortion downstream as it compounds from stage to stage.

You can debate the 'sound' of the transformers all you want but that 'sound' you hear is in fact the distortion of that transformer. If you like the sound of a certain transformer that's fine; its good to know that distortion is why and that it may not be so benign as signal level increases. Distortion obscures detail in addition to modifying the harmonic structure of musical instruments. So if you want the most out of your analog investment dollars, this is something to consider.

Ralph, You should know by now that in my case you are preaching to the converted. I do not now own a SUT. Nor have I ever owned one. Furthermore, except for one amplifier I built myself from scratch for the fun of it and because I came into a pair of fine vintage output transformers, I have never used a transformer coupled tube amplifier. But all that is part of a personal belief system that I keep to myself (except for now), and I would not foist it on anyone else who likes to use a SUT.

I also now have two very fine phonolinepreamps (to use Raul's parlance), one basically tube and one all SS, both of which have sufficient active gain for any MC on the planet, which is to say the Ortofon MC2000 at 0.05mV output can be accommodated by both with no intercurrent audible noise.

lewm

how is the .05mv increased to MM signal strength?

Active Gain, signal not stepped up?

Using low impedance MC carts, I would highly recommend looking into a Sutherland Engineering SUTZ. Which is a step up transimpedance unit made to replace the internal solutions of your favorite phono preamps. Just put this between the cartridge and MM input, exactly like you would incorporate a step up transformer. I have improved a number of tube phono preamps, to include Allnic H-7000 (with silver step ups), Manley Steelhead, and most recently an Allnic H10000. A truly incredible device with a 2 fold benefit. Add transimpedance to the system and improve transparency over any step up transformer I have tried to date.