SUT help

@bobsdevices Thanks!

We occasionally run into customers who can't abide any phono noise despite the phono section being quieter (so inaudible) then the LP surfaces themselves. That kind of individual seems to value the noise floor over other characteristics. For them, SUTs are useful even though the phono section works quite well down to 0.2mV. So I think this is a different application than what you are describing- we found that the least amount of step up resulted in a more spacious soundstage, stuff like that. If the phono section has less gain this result might be quite different!

@bobsdevices Our phono sections are designed to work with LOMC cartridges directly.

It seems where SUTs are best suited is if the phono section is designed for high output MM cartridges. That's always been their traditional use.

From answers to my original questions, it seems like finding a SUT with 1:10 and 1:20 options might be best since it sounds like there's been success with both and either should work with various configurations on my phono pre-amp.

@mmcgill829 We have used SUTs in our preamps (I prefer direct FWIW) but one thing we noticed was the less gain you try to get from the SUT the better. So if it does have reconfigurable stepup (like the Jensen JT-346, which is an excellent SUT, one of the best), use the least amount that will get you enough gain. Its Ok if you have to run the volume up on your line stage a bit; as long as the noise floor of the phono section overall is less than that of the silent grooves of a good quality LP, you're good to go. IOW 1:10 is better than 1:20.

Help me out please, when the Phon' of Phon's does become available for my experiencing. How do I capitalise on this opportunity.

Must the TA be the £60K Sat. 

Must the LOMC be over £20K

Must the TT be north of £80Kish

Must the Interconnects be £20K+

What must the Downstream equate to £250Kish.

@pindac High end audio isn't driven by price, its driven by intention. For that reason, the most expensive gear might not be the best sounding. Its simply the most expensive.

Funny how when I express an opinion on how I perceive what might be the best conditions to assess the Mother of all Phon's, the reply is that it is utter rubbish.

If I had to guess, the reason was because @lewm is possibly aware that price and sound quality have nothing to do with each other or at best are only loosely associated.

@lewm Yes, I was just pointing to a reason why SUTs tend to be less spacious, detailed and involving even when properly loaded as compared to when you are able to run direct-in.

@elliottbnewcombjr @lewm @mmcgill829 Here is something you all might want to consider. Audio transformers of all types make distortion. If they are not loaded properly they will make more distortion but you can never make them distortion-free no matter how well they are matched to the system in which they are used.

This is because of something called the 'hysterisis curve'. With a simple sine wave the distortion can be fairly low, but since the curve runs through all 4 quadrants, when the signal is more complex the distortion will be far more complex as well, meaning you get more than just a simple 2nd harmonic!

Its unavoidable if you use a transformer.

Put another way, if you don't want to color the sound, if you want to hear the music with the least amount of distortion, avoiding a transformer at the input to the audio chain is probably a good idea (if you have enough gain otherwise); there is no way to reduce that distortion downstream as it compounds from stage to stage.

You can debate the 'sound' of the transformers all you want but that 'sound' you hear is in fact the distortion of that transformer. If you like the sound of a certain transformer that's fine; its good to know that distortion is why and that it may not be so benign as signal level increases. Distortion obscures detail in addition to modifying the harmonic structure of musical instruments. So if you want the most out of your analog investment dollars, this is something to consider.