How to make the Focal Kanta No. 2 speakers sing?


Hi!

My first post here and I would like to hear your thoughts and tips for "warming up" my Focal Kanta 2 speakers.

 

TLDR

The sound from my Focal Kanta 2 speakers in my room is a bit shouty, bright and thin sounding, clearly lacking level and emotion in the lower mid range. Bass is good, quick and quite deep though.

Any tips for getting more "vocal warmth" into the system? Tube preamp, Dirac, ...? I see that many use old school power hungry amps that can heat your house during winter to drive Focal speakers. Is that really needed or can I get away with a modern amp that doesn’t cost a fortune.

 

More in depth information

In my living room (5.3 x 4.1 x 2.4m) I have a setup with both 2 channel and a multi channel setup. They share the same front speakers and front speaker amp.

2 channel setup:

 

5.2 channel setup:

 

I focus mainly on the two channel setup here. Multichannel is used quite much also for streaming movies, but is ok.

So the main issue for me is that the sound in in the two channel setup is thin sounding with mids clearly lacking in the lower end. It can be fatiguing to listen for a few hours. Bass though is enjoyable, fast and fairly deep.

Earlier I had the Focal Aria 936 speakers as front speakers in the same room (connected to the Yamaha AVR at that time). I liked them but wanted to upgrade to the next level after a few years 😄 The Arias were more forgiving than the Kantas, had more enjoyable warmth in the mids and were a bit rolled off in the top compared to the Kantas. Not fatiguing at all. But everything else the Kantas do better.

I have also had some other speakers, up to half Kanta price range, in the same room where all have had fuller mids and a more forgiving sound: Dynaudio, Totem and Triangle floor standers as well as Buchardt and my really old B&W 602s3 (super full mids but super rolled off in the top) stand speakers. The Kantas are different animals to all these and seem to require the a more delicate and correct chain of components to perform.

I have messed around with speaker positioning quite a lot. It’s mainly the bass region that is affected. Mids not very much.

Options I’m considering:

  • Upgrading the Yamaha AVR to a Marantz Cinema 50 for example to get Dirac room tuning, and run the 2 channel system through this also. The quality of the Marantz might not be the best here to use as a 2 channel pre amp/processor.
  • Use a dedicated pre amp for the 2 channel system. Budget up to 2000€. Not sure what to look for? Used equipment is fine.
  • Tubes? Never really listened to tubes but from what I understand you generally get a more warm sound from them. Tube preamp? Not very modern but might do the trick. Schiit Freya + seems to be within the budget range for example.
  • Other 2 channel amplifier. As mentioned I have tried to avoid the nuclear power plants of amps. I see people recommending amps from manufacturers like Musical Fidelity, Sim Audio, McIntosh, Accuphase etc. But these are really costly and I feel they generally belong in an older age that we are moving away from. But it might be what is needed, I don’t know, haven’t really heard them play.
  • Treat the room more. I have a big sofa, a really big carpet and a few acoustic panels in the room (no real science behind them now). The room in itself is a bit "bright" so here I can make a better effort of course, regardless of other taken measures.
  • Get other speakers. I can also just face it that the Kantas are what they are, sounding thin in the midrange and lacking emotion in voices. Getting other speakers might be the easiest upgrade. But it’s not that easy to find and test speakers in your room either...

 

Long story. Any recommendations?

Thanks!

donald_dac

@donald_dac 

Good grief dude, it looks like you are about to go down some major rabbit holes and continue resurfacing with  disgruntlement and vexation of spirit, simply because you haven't explored what you already have in its entirety. Fortunately, you have a nice piece of Yamaha gear that could deliver you and provide salvation in these times of darkness.


Step a) Unplug the eversolo and set it aside for now.


Step b) Unplug the Audiophonics Class D crap and sell it to a Class D crap lover on Audiosciencereview.


Step c) Plug your front speakers directly into your Yamaha Class AB RX-A2080. The RX-A2080 is a step lower than their former flagship receiver (RX-A3080) and would possibly have many of the feature sets in their former flagship prepro (CX-A5200). As far as your 2 channel music listening goes, that receiver is a full featured/polished up streamer+good DAC implementation+great preamp sections and.... poweramp sections which are a bit weak (as is typical of multichannel receivers). Your Eversolo and the Audiophonics crap are not gonna beat it for 2 channel listening. I don't know much about your specific Focal speaker, but Focals i've heard are generally abrasively bright with thin mids, etc (like some of the ear abusing hometheater Klipsch speakers).


The following will also be a very important exercise for you to fully study/understand the type of sound signature you like...the signature that pleases you most without spending money...


Step d) Run YPAO calibration correctly for your hometheater. First mic location with tripod will be at your primarily listening position/sweetspot. Set additional positions within 1 foot of this primary location (your sweet spot is all that matters). At the end of the cal, disable "YPAO volume" and "enhancer".


Step e) Go into your configuration, YPAO would have have set your EQ to "YPAO flat", "YPAO natual", etc. That is for entry level users. You would go into MANUAL PEQ.


Step f) Use the manual PEQ to warm things up and improve spatial qualities without contributing to shoutiness, reducing brightness, etc. The perception of warm, chunky, chocolatey, delicious, etc can vary in frequency band for different types of guys....So try the following as a starting point, an example....
~99hz, Q=0.5, +2 dB
~198hz, Q=0.79, +1db
1khz, Q=0.79, +2.5
8k, Q=0.5, -1db
16k, Q=0.5, -1 db

If it is still shouty, pull the 8k band a bit lower with low Q's still....You see this type of utility? Sky is the limit on how you change the sound of a speaker with full featured PEQ and examining the sound you like.


Step g) Moving on....You will have "pattern settings" (saving all your specific settings) in your receiver. Set pattern 1 for specific hometheater settings and pattern 2 for 2 channel stereo. In 2 channel stereo (if you wanna be more of a purist), don't setup a subwoofer crossover in its bass management module. Run the 2 fronts "LARGE" and turn on "extra bass", which will dovetail your subs in where your mains drop off. Manually set the subwoofer crossover knob on sub to around 60hz or so. The Yamaha will do the rest/do a seamless blend.

Step h) After you get satisfactory results from your PEQ experiments and the full featureset/utility level of your receiver, you will also have a much better understanding of the type of sound you like. Now, get meaty Class AB or Class A power amps for your receiver's preouts into your 2 front speakers for music.  I would recommend preouts to a pair of the Schiit TYR monoblocks for your fronts, i.e., a weird type of Class Aish topology with gobs of power that sounds exquisite.


After you fully read your Yamaha's manual cover to cover and understand the insanity levels of its feature set and utility, you may never be able to let it go. At the least, it is a very good experimentation tool. At that point, upgrade to a Yamaha prepro, either get a used CX-A5200 or wait a minute for the upcoming flagship prepro (CX-A5300 or whatever else they may plan to name it).

When you go into purist gear, you will lose all such flexibility and just keep diving from rabbit hole to rabbit hole like most dudes around here...unless you've fully experimented with what type of sound signature you really like and become surgical with the type of purist gear you get.


 Good luck.

that receiver is a full featured/polished up streamer+good DAC implementation+great preamp sections and.... poweramp sections which are a bit weak (as is typical of multichannel receivers)

@deep_333 So, a $1700 AVR has a great preamp section???  I beg to differ, and a good stereo preamp is absolutely critical.  I’m a fan of Yammy AVRs, but no $1700 AVR has a “great” preamp section.  Period. 

If I were you, with those very fine speakers, I would want to hear if a tube amp in place of the Class D would be more to your liking. I’d consider something like a Rogue Cronus Magnum personally.

Note I run good quality Class D amps on all my systems personally but being familiar with the Focal sound that particular combo might be a bit too much in the manner you describe  for many. 

In my experience, Focal speakers are excessively sensitive to amplifier current capabilities.

The Kanta’s, like many of Focal’s floor standers with dual woofers, suffers from excessively low impedance in the mid bass. IMHO, a bad match for most tube amps. They need careful positioning relative to the rear wall to get maximum reinforcement and a solid amplifier.

Other positioning tips are to minimize toe-in and increase mid/treble absorbers in the room which will better balance out the speaker.  Those inverted domes have resonances which make them sound best off-axis.  You'll know you did it right when you go from having a Left, Center and Right image to an image that is seamless from left to right without a gap. 

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/focal-kanta-no2-loudspeaker-measurements