Weak Link in Vinyl Playback

So using gain 2, I definitely get a fuller and more muscular sound - hoping it ins't just placebo. If it is actually making a difference, does this point to the weak link being the phono stage in that I basically have to go against manufacturer spec to get this sound, the cartridge not having enough gain to match with the phono manufacturer spec, or the Saga preamp not doing enough of it's job to provide the necessary gain for my setup?

OP,

Think Long, have a game plan for the next few years.

I favor tubes, but I’ll keep my comments regarding your SS equipment.

1. My Office System: I tried ifi phono, nope, sent it back. tried cambridge duo, nope, sent it back. (both had good reviews) Pyle $14. MM phono sounded better than them. Eventually using built in Phono of my Little Luxman.

So, I would definitely change the ifi and buy new phono stage, from a source that allows returns. Keep going until happy (assuming other changes you make are already complete.

2. Cartridge: I prefer wide channel separation, and tight center balance: both improve imaging quite a bit. Your existing cartridge has only 23db separation, not great. It’s channel balance of 1.5db is pretty good, I like 1.0db more, but ...,

while you could change the stylus, the body will still make around 23db separation, so,

I would go for a new cartridge.

Alignment: who will install/align your cartridge for you? It HAS to be done right!

AT VM540ml

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm540ml

has 28db separation and tight 1.0 db channel balance. It is the one I recommend to anyone trying to improve without too high costs. AT has a trade-in program, when it gets worn, they will keep it and sell you a new one for around 1/2 price. Over time, that lowers the cost.

btw, the stiffer the cantilever: boron say, will produce a speck more/tighter bass, however if they get 28db sep with aluminum cantilever that’s darn good.

3. Preamp: My friend bought Schitt based on good reviews here/there/everywhere. We DID NOT like it, sent it back. I suspect it might be part of the problem FOR YOU, in Your System.

4. Speakers: I have never heard them, but I know any 2 way, 6-1/2" mid trying yo make bass via a port would not be my choice. Port is in the front at least.

You could try them with a Stereo Pair of Self-Powered Subs, front firing adjacent to the 2 ways. Very low bass starts mono, however the overtones become directional.

Use with preamp line out to sub’s line in; then line from sub to amp, then amp to speakers. That method removes the need for the amp to make low bass, and removes the need for your 2 way’s to try and make lower bass. Sub must have line in/line out feature.

Again, subs from a source you can return.

5. Eventually, larger 3 way speakers with larger driver for lows. No port, if so, front firing only. Keep the new to you speakers limited to high sensitivity, 90db or more. That reduces the power needs, which reduces cost/size/weight, increases placement options.

Also, efficient speakers make it much easier to try tubes. same advantages as above, plus not so much heat as a bigger tube amp.

happy days making decisions,

Elliott

 

Hello owl9113!  It could be as simple as cartridge alignmnt in the tone arm. Has it been bumped or been in transit lately?  Has it always sounded thin?  Could the cartridge be a bit loose in the tone arm? It's worth a try and there's no charge to you if you fix it yourself. Good Luck & Happy Listening.

The OP should always run the Saga in active mode. Passive (no gain) modes in preamps tend to have a dull, lackluster sound. Next, the AT cartridge has high coil inductance. This makes it really susceptible to capacitance loading. I recommend changing to a moving coil (Denon, Hana) or moving iron (Grado, Nagaoka) cartridge - all low inductance.

@atmasphere Thanks for posting the link to the Hagermann discussion, good information. 

@elliottbnewcombjr Very helpful and to-the-point. 
@owl9113  Great thread you’ve got going here. I think both responders are offering helpful suggestions. I’ve been trying to solve some of the same issues. For vinyl, I have found the biggest difference is the cartridge itself, although, to backup Elliott’s concern, cartridge setup —the overhang, alignment, ‘azimuth’, the weight of the stylus at point-of-contact, stylus ‘rake’ angle, anti-skate, etc. can be difficult for a beginner to master. I bought a used turntable and new cartridge, in part, to get all that stuff set up correctly, because I was having a heck of a time doing it myself. It turned out my original cartridge was simply worn out. But dropping the needle on the ‘new’ turntable was such a relief: it sounded wonderful to my ears, then and now. 
Like Elliott, I found the best sound from a phono stage integrated into a line level device. It was better than the Elac phono amp I tried, more clarity, lower noise floor, which has been an issue for me on some of the Schiit gear I’ve used. I do have experience with the Freya+. I found it to be quite serviceable, and the tube stage adds 6 dB gain, which can be very helpful when a turntable is the source. I have about given up finding an analog vinyl setup that can match the signal from a decent digital disk player or DAC, but by fiddling with the controls, I manage to ‘get what I need’ from the records on the turntable. The cartridge and phonostage have so much work to do, there is really no fair comparison between the two (digital and analog) in my view. They are different animals and best understood on their own terms, in my opinion. I am sure, with your approach, you will get there.