Weak Link in Vinyl Playback


Hi Everyone,

I’m looking for some input on a weak link in my system, mostly in regards to my vinyl playback chain in a 12’x11’ room.

I currently have a Technics SL-1700 MK1 with an AT-VM95ML cartridge. The turntable is connected to an iFi Zen Phono. The phono is connected to a Schiit Saga S via 3 ft. Blue Jeans BJC LC-1 cable, and the Saga runs to a single Schiit Vidar by the another set of the same cable. The Vidar is connected to Elac Debut B6.2’s via 10 ft. Belden 50000UE cable (as an aside, my digital path is Pro Ject S2 Pre Box Digital connected by the same 3ft. interconnects to the Saga>Vidar>speakers). I’ve connected a sub previously (a Martin Logan Grotto I that I inherited) to the Saga in the past, but am currently running without it.

My concern is that while the digital path sounds full to me, at least as much as can be expected, the vinyl path sounds a bit thin and weak. I guess I’d describe it as kind of lacking energy. My gut tells me the Saga S having 0 gain in both the passive and buffer mode (I run it in passive mode because it sounds more lifelike to me but I’ve used the buffer in the past as well) is the reason for this, but I’m not positive. I’m ready to upgrade to the Freya S if that’s the solution, but I didn’t want to start throwing money at a problem without really narrowing it down first. The Zen phono is set to MM and gain 1, which should be correct for my cartridge, the interconnects aren’t overly long (the speaker cable being 10’ isn’t too big a deal, I think?), the Vidar should be driving my inefficient speakers with no issue and judging by the digital path, it is. 

I’m hoping someone here can weigh in on what would make the biggest positive impact in my listening and give me the oomph I think I’m missing. For what it’s worth, I plan on doing some room treatment down the road, but that’s not what I’m looking for advice on at the moment.


Thanks!

owl9113

Showing 3 responses by elliottbnewcombjr

OP,

Think Long, have a game plan for the next few years.

I favor tubes, but I’ll keep my comments regarding your SS equipment.

1. My Office System: I tried ifi phono, nope, sent it back. tried cambridge duo, nope, sent it back. (both had good reviews) Pyle $14. MM phono sounded better than them. Eventually using built in Phono of my Little Luxman.

So, I would definitely change the ifi and buy new phono stage, from a source that allows returns. Keep going until happy (assuming other changes you make are already complete.

2. Cartridge: I prefer wide channel separation, and tight center balance: both improve imaging quite a bit. Your existing cartridge has only 23db separation, not great. It’s channel balance of 1.5db is pretty good, I like 1.0db more, but ...,

while you could change the stylus, the body will still make around 23db separation, so,

I would go for a new cartridge.

Alignment: who will install/align your cartridge for you? It HAS to be done right!

AT VM540ml

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm540ml

has 28db separation and tight 1.0 db channel balance. It is the one I recommend to anyone trying to improve without too high costs. AT has a trade-in program, when it gets worn, they will keep it and sell you a new one for around 1/2 price. Over time, that lowers the cost.

btw, the stiffer the cantilever: boron say, will produce a speck more/tighter bass, however if they get 28db sep with aluminum cantilever that’s darn good.

3. Preamp: My friend bought Schitt based on good reviews here/there/everywhere. We DID NOT like it, sent it back. I suspect it might be part of the problem FOR YOU, in Your System.

4. Speakers: I have never heard them, but I know any 2 way, 6-1/2" mid trying yo make bass via a port would not be my choice. Port is in the front at least.

You could try them with a Stereo Pair of Self-Powered Subs, front firing adjacent to the 2 ways. Very low bass starts mono, however the overtones become directional.

Use with preamp line out to sub’s line in; then line from sub to amp, then amp to speakers. That method removes the need for the amp to make low bass, and removes the need for your 2 way’s to try and make lower bass. Sub must have line in/line out feature.

Again, subs from a source you can return.

5. Eventually, larger 3 way speakers with larger driver for lows. No port, if so, front firing only. Keep the new to you speakers limited to high sensitivity, 90db or more. That reduces the power needs, which reduces cost/size/weight, increases placement options.

Also, efficient speakers make it much easier to try tubes. same advantages as above, plus not so much heat as a bigger tube amp.

happy days making decisions,

Elliott

 

OP's equipment

A few clarifications for others:

1. his TT has an S arm with removable headshell

2. his cartridge has an output signal of 3.5 mv   

op

It’s not all specs, BUT, if you like the performance of AT’s dual magnet design, as I do/have for a long time:

you have AT microlinear,

yes, but: in a not so great ’engine’ (cartridge guts),

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/at-vm95ml

I pointed out earlier, the cartridge is ONLY 23db channel separation

compared to the 540ml version I recommended, with 28db channel separation and tighter 1.00 db channel balance.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-magnet/vm540ml

the 540 imaging will DEFINITELY be superior

In AT’s MM line, you can spend more, to get up to 30db separation, I think the 540 is the best performance/value.

..............................................................................

Eventually I suspect you will try MC moving coil cartridge type.

This is the exchange program they told me about when my AT33PTG/II stylus was worn. Bought new cartridge for half price.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/styli-accessories/a-t-moving-coil-exchange-program

like the MM 540ml; in AT’s MC lineup, I chose and recommend the AT33PTG/II as the performance/value choice.

separation 30db; channel balance 0.5db. (stiffer boron cantilever helps)

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/cartridges/type/moving-coil/at33ptg-2

All imaging is phantom. Everything created without a center speaker (they used to have center channels)

Give your L and R speakers tight channel balance to locate instruments/vocalists anywhere more precisely. Of course excellent engineering of the source is needed, but a whole lotta excellence is out there.