Trailsend - it would appear that the only thing that the Emo 8.3a and Lore have in common is price. You may want to compare other single or full range driver speakers to the Lore. The Emo is a conventional speaker and will undoubtably sound 100% different. May be a great speaker thoough, just not apples to apples. |
Avs9, I listen to about 50/50 Jazz/Classical, and was a bit worried myself how the Lores would handle Classical, mostly due to reports that they lack resolution compared to higher end speakers. Well, my reservations proved unfounded when the Lores came. First of all, they are plenty resolving enough for Classical. I can't say I've heard the best of the best when it comes to speakers, but the highest-end I've heard are B&W 802 diamonds, which are known for being highly resolving. Sure, they're more resolving than the Lores, but not by much. And when you figure they cost 15x as much, you'd expect them to be more resolving. The trade off for that little bit of resolution, though, is incredible sonic immersion. For me, listening to the B&W's is like watching 40fps video on an ultra hi-def t.v. It's sharply detailed, but you're constantly aware that you're watching an image on a screen; listening to the B&W's, I 'm always aware that I'm listening to a recording. With the Lores, however, my system disappears. This isn't just because they image well, which they do, but also because they nail the tone and timing of the instruments. They present the music very cohesively, like a live performance. It's like being on stage with the musicians, especially with chamber music. As for orchestral music, if your amp is powerful enough, the Lore's will wash a symphony over you like you're at the concert hall. You get the rumble of the low frequencies, the airiness of the highs, and the big round tones and resonating thwacks of kettle drums and tympani. And the most impressive part is how well the Lores separate the sections of the orchestra, while still maintaining the timing and cohesiveness of the performance. I've heard many a lesser speaker turn orchestral music into a muddy, distorted mess. You might not have the same experience as me, but I'd give them a shot before spending more money. Good luck, Alex |
A great trail here at Audiogon! A lot of very interesting remarks. What I was looking for was any feedback as far as classical music goes as applicable to Lore speakers, most of the posts that I went through (and I did look at 95 %) were talking about rock, jazz... Not much on the classical side. I mostly listen to classical, only analog rig. I have pretty small room 11x14x8, speakers along the long side, not much flexibility,CJ MV60SE amp. Would appreciate to hear any feedback as far as listening to the classical music goes. Thank you |
I was able to take apart the driver according to Eric's instructions and push out the dents in the dome. It's not perfect, but pretty close. Driver's back in place and working well at this point. I will probably want to replace the diaphragm and voice coil at some point, but not vital at this point. |
Well, I had a graduation party last weekend at my house for a friend, and his 3 year old saw some shiny gold bits on my speakers. Guess what happened next... ;) So, one of the audax tweeters has some pretty sizeable dimples in it now. Luckily I don't think the voicecoil was damaged. It still works, and I've consulted Eric about how to proceed. I guess I can partially disassembled it without too much trouble and try to push the dome back into shape from the reverse side, then reassemble and reinstall. I'm gonna give it a go. If that doesn't work well, replacement diaphragm and voice coil should only cost $30-40 instead of $110 for replacing the entire driver. In the meantime, it's been interesting listening to it this way. It's clear the dispersion pattern is messed up, and the two speakers have a little different frequency response. However, it doesn't sound as bad as I would have thought. Having the eminence driver go up as high as it does, it really does carry the majority of the information, and the midrange is still fully intact. |
The Tektons sound like an excellent value and a great option in the right room. Stereophile did a review of some larger Zus that I found interesting. They liked the sound and performance but the measurements were found somewhat lacking. That does not surprise me I suppose. I cannot conceive how a single full range conventional driver can deliver smooth response top to bottom. I can imagine how the lack of crossover and coherency theough most of the audible spectrum could make that a moot point for many though. |
Another great review of the Lore-S by Frank Alles of Stereo Times http://www.stereotimes.com/speak050112.shtml |
You could mix caps for sure but who knows the outcome? You definitely do not want to change the cap values as that would change the crossover point. A better compromise IMO would be the regular Mundorf Supreme at a fraction of the cost and probably 85% of the improvement. However, I would guess that any decent cap would be an upgrade as the ones that come stock are not that high of quality and chosen for a given price point. A very important point to keep in mind with this upgrade is that a 10% improvement for $200-600 dollars for the Mundorfs or SIO is much greater than any amp or DAC or Pre-amp change would produce. |
The Zu Omen Def is over three times as expensive as the Tekton Lore. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the Tekton Lore vs. Zu Omen Standard, and the Tekton Pendragon vs. Zu Omen Def? That way you are comparing speakers at approximately the same price points and the latter both have dual full-range drivers. |
Wow, those Mundorfs are quite quite pricey! Any thoughts about mixing caps? I could probably afford the smaller Mundorf caps, but what if I went for a cheaper option on the larger caps? I don't have experience with different sounds of different capacitors and would like the best I can get, but not sure I can spring for the large Mundorfs. Any idea what combinations might work best, or what I would be sacrificing by not going all-Mundorf? |
Hi GPowered: It is quite easy to change the caps, though the challenge is that the Mundorfs alone are each as large as the entire previous crossover,and therefore not so easy to install using the old crossover board. The changes I made were simply upgrades to the parts using the exact same specs. Basically, I hacked out the old caps and just soldered in the new ones in a temporary quick fix situation, meaning it wasn't pretty and I was glad it didn't short out! Then upon hearing how nice everything was sounding, I asked Eric if he would kindly build me a new crossover using the new caps and resistors and of course he agreed to do so for a nominal fee. So now he has them and will send them back to me on a new board which then will require me to just re wire it. I'm far from a DIY guy, but it should not take more than a half hour to complete and well worth it. As for the placement, yes the Dragons love space in my room. I have them about 5 feet from the rear wall and about 9-10 feet apart and I sit about 10-11 feet back. I found a huge improvement when I took out the measuring tape and laser and positioned them with perfect symmetry. The imaging and soundstage is really spectacular now with the amp that I am using. Next step for me is a pair of bass traps and to take some measurements to even out the bass as my room is a bit fussy. |
Morganc- thanks for the update! How difficult was it to install the caps and what changes are required in the xover for this new resistor? I have to admit I am quite happy with this Crown amp in my system now. I also rearranged my room and was able to spread the speakers 9ft apart as well as sitting 9ft away. This made a gigantic difference, especially in the tone and mid bass/bass of the speaker. Much more defined now. It is amazing what placement can do. These speakers definitely need some room to do their best. Prior, I had been sitting about 7.5 ft away from them. A little too close. |
GPowered: I upgraded to the Mundorf Silver in Oil Caps for the 'Dragons this week and the improvement was not small nor subtle. It was a huge upgrade even before any cap breakin. I have a Mundorf Resistor to install also but I am going to have Eric make the new Crossover for me so I have not added that in yet. For anyone wanted a major upgrade, this is it and right now the caps are on sale at Parts Connection. The vocals have more body, more three dimensionally, and are silky smoothe. Overall tone, timbre, and balance are much improved. It is about $500-600 to upgrade (and that's the sale price), but it is a major improvement and improves on an already great speaker. My next step is to add much needed bass traps to my living room as I still get boominess from the speakers and I have several bass nodes, but I am now quite content with the speakers. I am running them now with a two watt 45 amp from Don Allen (yes two watts) and the imaging, soundstage,clarity, and detail and pure musical enjoyment level are all amazingly high. I also have a Decware Tori mk III that is a fantastic match also but the bass from it overwhelms my room at the moment so I am mostly using the two watt 45 and it plays well up to 75 dB or so at my listening position. |
Morganc - mainly just upgrading the resistors to be able to be handle big power, caps, increased internal dampening... and the more versatle 8ohm. Rcduck7 - the class D pro amp is doing everything you said. I am running a single CROWN XLS 2500 (over 700! guaranteed watts into 4ohms). One thing I REALLY like is the rich, deep, but extremely articulate bass at the lower volumes. This amp really has a tremendous grip on the drivers. CRANK it up and it is crystal clear - almost deceptive in that it doesn't seem as loud as it is! I am not missing my tubes right now. Getting better and better as the hours build up on this amp. |
Gpowered, Class D amps are very efficient and should get these Pendragons in a good grip. The SDS amps are great but the DIY Hypex Ncore amps seem to have uped the game. A good class D amp should have no particular "sound", very neutral. Isn't that what an amp should do? Only amplify the source without drawing attention to itself?? Some tube fanatics that are used to a certain "sound" might not go wild for this i'm afraid. PS: i'm very intrested in a Pendragon myself but also in a good open baffle like a GR research Super-V or an Emerald Physics. Anyone heard these? And how would they compare to a Tekton Pendragon or Lore?? |
Hi all ! Looks like me and Mikirob had the same nightmare in the '70 s . Boniccie...wish I had the room for the 'dragons , lucky guy you are . Morganc...I was going to build some bass traps too and then got lazy and just bought some . A nice little trick is to stack pillows in different corners to see where they should placed . Another way is to just stick your head in each corner of the room and listen . The corner or corners with the strongest bass is where they go . |
Congrads Boniccie! Bradluke0 - yes, I am considering selling my Pens and ordering the 8ohm version with some other upgrades! Just thinking about it though... if I had a local buyer I may do it. I love my 4ohm model so it's just a thought right now. I am using Crown pro amp right now and it's class D. I love the combination. |
Hey guys, what are your thoughts on using a class D Pro amp with a pair of Tekton Pendragons? I have my eye on a Crown XLS 1000... trying to recreate "live" sounding dynamics in my room. I am amazed at what a 12 watt tube amp can do... but I am a rock and contemporary guy and the "live" sound IS where these Tektons excel. Eric seem to think it will be a great match... thoughts? |
Hey guys. Good to hear from everybody. In light of my interest in recreating a live event, I am thinking trying out a Crown XLS-1000 class D pro switching amp with my Tekton Pendragons. I am curious to see if it will give me the dynamics I am looking for. Dynamics are very good with 12 watt Xindak, so I can only imagine w/ a pro amp. Any thoughts? |
I haven't found the need for a Zobel network,even at 18 to 20 watts per channel the impedance curve seems pretty stable to me. Possibly due to the non inductance resisters,internal cabling and upgrade caps presenting a better over all presentation. They do seem to have a peek between 1khz. and 2khz. as dose most drivers in the extended to to full range variety but it doesn't seem to change with increasing volume. Or maybe Rocky 500 notices it more in his particular room as he rocks up the volume knob.Hard to say but it dose make for awesome guitar riffs.The Lores are not ruler flat near the upper ranges,I knew this from the first audition,the ZU Essence is far flatter than the Lores but they have a huge peek in the very top end from 15K on up with bass remaining tight but not as prominent as the Lores. The Lores are a fantastic speaker but they don't graph like the Bonneville salt flats. |
Here is the info. "If you think it is the 10" transducer bothering you try connecting a 4uF capacitor and an 8 Ohm 10 Watt resistor wired in series with each other - then place this across the positive and negative connections (a parallel connection in relation to the 10" driver)." The parts I used were a 8.2Ω 10 watt high power Metal Oxide non-inductive resistor and a 3.9uF Jantzen Audio CrossCap. (Closest I could get at the time of ordering) http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_2&products_id=43 http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_1&products_id=20 It seem to get better and better after a couple of hours of the mods. My ears were maybe udjusting to them. It has been a great improvement in my system. Even at normal listening levels which does not seem to make much sense from what I have read. Saw this graph on doing a search. http://www.wavecor.com/html/zobel_networks.html For me it has made all the difference and I am thoroughly enjoying them now. |
Thanks for sharing, Rocky! I've been interested in playing with the crossover based on Goraman's experiments, so it's great to hear Eric has some recommendations along those lines. I need to call him. Can you share the details of the caps and resistors recommended? Goraman, could you compare this approach to yours? It sounds like this adds a zobel network, while it sounded like you mainly just substituted different caps in the existing crossover design. Did you try a zobel approach as well? |
Hi all, I once posted earlier I had though my pair of Tekton Lore's were a bit peeky when I turned up the volume. I had put this down to the tweeter but it was actually the 10" Transducer. With the help/guideance from Eric I ordered some Caps and resistors. I have put them in today and it has made all the difference. I can now turn them up very loud with no harsh effects. They don't seem to have lost any of their dynamics or their signature sound. If anything, they have become less boxy. I also noticed the padding inside was not quite in place, so fixed that up a bit too which could of been the cause of the slight boxy sound. Was planning on selling them but now they suit my system really well. I posted this on a Aussie forum and someone mentioned the change I was doing was, I quote "This is called a zobel, and counters the rising impedance of the driver at high frequencies." It worked great. Pic here of the mod http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3771/p1110158g.jpg |
03-30-12: Floosh "My Lore's arrived 2 days ago. Very pleased. ...and the fact that you can drive them w/ pretty much anything is such a bonus." Good to hear you like the Lores, Floosh. Excellent point about the Hi Eff speakers. Lots of ways to make good music in your room, but speakers like the Lores allow you so much more flexibility when it comes to amps. It's a system, and that flexibility pays off. |
My Lore's arrived 2 days ago. Very pleased. I'm driving them effortlessly with an entry level Yamaha 2 channel receiver and a Shiit Bifrost DAC with FLACs. Very textural. Hellova midfi system on the cheap. While I haven't side-by-sided them, I think I prefer the Lores to my Vandy 2Ce's (already a bargain at twice the price,) and the fact that you can drive them w/ pretty much anything is such a bonus. |
