Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?

Atmasphere your viewpoint in this discussion repetitively shuts down people learning and exploring. The whole discussion about bass, about distortion, and many of the other salient points you’ve raised, while one hand accurate, are on the other hand wholly irrelevant.

@yaluaka  The way you write suggests to me that we have very similar goals. When I put on an LP I don't want to be thinking about the system. I want it out of the way so I get the full experience of the music and nothing else.

I'm really trying to save people from flushing perfectly good dollars down the loo rather than trying to shut down discussion. You'll note I suggested some simple solutions for getting the most out of any SET on this thread. I can outline them again if you like.

How relevant my comments are depends on what you play for music. I have recordings I recorded, so having been there when that happened, I know how they are supposed to sound. I enjoy electronic music and some of that has really deep bass. So its only irrelevant if you limit the kinds of music to which you listen. If you only play chamber music or light jazz or folk you'll probably be fine. But if you have an original LP pressing of Hendrix's Electric Ladyland, King Crimson's In the Wake of Posiden, ELP's first LP and so on you really won't get to experience what those records are all about with an SET because of the bass issue (if nothing else). If you can find a copy of RCA's Soria series recording of Verdi's Requiem its the same thing. They really didn't compress that LP and it can bring any SET system to its knees in very short order (side one, track 2 if interested).

BTW its not just SETs that have problems making bass properly. A lot of early solid state stuff does too. That issue with solid state went into the early 1970s until silicon transistors got good enough that complementary symmetry was finally possible. A lot of those amps are nowhere near as musical as a lot of SETs not as if that's any revelation...

Maybe there’s not as much bass etc, but for me the way to listen to music, is to listen to music not equipment. Listen, don’t analyze. I find tube triodes to give me immense musical pleasure despite their drawbacks.

FWIW I've been building triode power amplifiers for over 47 years. Its not triodes that have the drawbacks I described; triodes can go right down to DC if you want. Its the output transformers in SETs that have the limitations. David Berning is the only one I know of whoever figured a way around that and unsurprisingly his amps get very good comments. 

@decooney Thanks for commenting. I’m not giving up my Pass XA25 or my QS Mono 60’s so I won’t be out on a limb with this next amp. I also know that these speakers have worked fine with SET amps in a room around my size, so it’s a question of finding the right amp for these speakers in my space with my other gear.

Sure. I do wonder if it could also be a functional and costlier challenge of finding a quality kit SET amp that's an improvement over what you already own right now - if overall performance is a consideration.  

@hilde45 I will keep it simple, it should always be about the circuit design. Whether the circuit is executed on a board or hand wired should not matter. What matters is starting with a well thought out circuit design. It's helpful if the design is reliable and if needed, easily serviceable as well. So circuit layout and parts selection are important intangibles as well.

VK Music assembled preamp and p/p Elekit amp and SunValley phono preamp with all the upgrades. Very Happy and very Good Service! Highly Recommended…

Many thanks to the additional posters and to the additional advice. Lots of brands to consider (Yamamoto, wow!) and varying advice about kit vs. used, etc.

One thing I notice at work that puts people on different sides of an issue has to do with framing -- is an amp purchase like "getting a car" or like "taking a vacation"?

We want to have a good outcome with both, but we want a "car" to do "the job." We want a "vacation" to not be unpleasant, but we often want "surprise," "novelty," and to gain "new perspectives."

Some people want audio to do a job. Some want from audio what they get from an interesting journey or vacation. After a vacation, that money is gone. You don’t resell a vacation. You come out the other side a slightly different person. That’s what I want from audio. That difference might come from trying something that is not "end game" but will teach me something, and add perspective.