Your journey with lower-watt tube amps -- Can a kit be good enough?

I mentioned to @hilde45 about eight members who all paralleled together on this same path about 8-10 years ago, many of us owning different generations of the same amps at the same times, all following each other around - making the next round of upgrades again to the same or next builders.

The DESIGNER and the types of circuits used with different types of tubes became the most fun for me. I eventually bowed out and went back to higher power amps, both tube monos and solid state.

The lower power amps did not like me and my speakers too much. There was this cool euphoric sound with a lack of drive and lacking dynamics in my case. Finally gave up, could never seem to get it right. Had the wrong speakers for it is my summation now.

What @atmasphere mentioned above about room "sound pressure levels" and/or lack thereof is something I experienced first hand. Could not quite explain it at the time. Then swapping in/out other more capable amps with more current/power which brought that back was a bit perplexing at that time. Quite an interesting realization that I sensed was going on yet could not explain what it was exactly. Thanks for posting this topic in this thread, I think this gets overlooked a lot fwiw.

The most underestimated and sometimes overlooked challenge for me with trying of SET amps was the speaker matching. Getting that spot-on is the key imo. And, I was not willing to focus on one-trick-pony speakers where some do well at this part. If you watch buyers/sellers over the last few decades, this stuff comes and goes, people try it and move on too. Everyone looking for sonic bliss :)

My local dealer sells mostly AudioNote, lots of SET amps and speakers all designed and made by AudioNote to work with specific amps too. I go in and listen periodically to 4-5 different systems there. It’s very specific I find with those systems. Some times you love the sound, other times you don’t, it can vary for some individuals even down to the mood they are in that day, lol.

Some times my local dealer will pair up other speaker brands with some of the 10w amps both push pull and SET. It’s an art form to get it right and years later I can see pros/cons of both SET and non-SET, or Parallel Single Ended amps vs. Push Pull amps.

The designer of my current amps does not build SET any more, and has nudged me a few times to say my current Ultralinear mono tube amps sound better and work better in his opinion for my 93db speakers. So, I defer to the Subject Matter Experts about SET amps now because it’s quite costly to get it right and some of don’t have room for extra speakers just sitting around to swap in/out all the time.

WHEN it’s right, some times a great SET amp and speaker pairing can be absolutely fantastic and intoxicating to listen to if the music is right for it imo.

Seems to me buying recommended amps and speakers that are known to pair very well together is they way to save a lot of time/money/headaches. Best of Luck on the Trial and Error parts it takes some willingness, readiness to risk, and patience. If you get it right it can be bliss too as others will share and not stand down on the topic LOL. 

@decooney Thanks for commenting. I’m not giving up my Pass XA25 or my QS Mono 60’s so I won’t be out on a limb with this next amp. I also know that these speakers have worked fine with SET amps in a room around my size, so it’s a question of finding the right amp for these speakers in my space with my other gear.

Sure. I do wonder if it could also be a functional and costlier challenge of finding a quality kit SET amp that's an improvement over what you already own right now - if overall performance is a consideration.  

To @wolf_garcia, which output tubes did you land on for your DH Firebottle HO amp?

The real question in my mind is how many different low powered or SET amps does the average audiophile go through before they find the right amp that matches up well with their speakers to their satisfaction, or before giving up?

3-4 seems typical

4-8 not uncommon

10+ for some

..and then others changing speakers along the way 3-4 times too trying to get "there". The designer of my current amps gave up on SET amps after a few decades and told me he prefers a bit higher power ultralinear amp designs with more versatility anyhow. My journey down the SET path was short lived, but enjoyable along the way fwiw.

A couple of friends I helped with on their Altec-Onken 102 db horn speaker creations use modified ST35s on rotation when taking their custom modified AudioNote 300B amps out of the loop. They seem to like them and use them quite a bit to save their WE300Bs. I demoed one once, it was different sound from other amps I've tried in my system.  Fairly plush sounding too.  

"@atmasphere Feedback helps the amp reject that which is not the signal. Artifacts from wire, resistors, capacitors and transformers are not the signal, as well as noise from poor grounding, layout problems, line Voltage and so on. "

Ralph can you explain in a bit more detailed manner [my own ignorance] how "feedback" sort of identifies, isolates, and/or removes these other things that are "not" the signal. A local 50-year tech now retired has debated this some about how some amp designers do and don't leverage feedback for the circuit, or in the right ways.  He actually gets somewhat aggravated in conversation about this topic, lol.  

Speaking of "how far they can push it", I wish I had photos on hand of my local 55-year tech [now retired], he let me borrow his self named "FrankenDyna" ST35 loaner amp once.

It sorta looked like its original self in some ways, but not really, Kinda Fugly actually.  Super heavy for a small footprint.  It was really fun to play. Very-very musical, beautiful midrange, not overly dynamic, or overly detailed.  Just nice.  I could have listened to that amp ongoing. His Modded AudioNote amps are over the top, look nothing like the originals.  Its fun to try amps from mad scientists who create cool stuff just for fun.