Would you pay to listen?

lol...I'm glad my poking fun at the eccentricities of the audiophile community wasn't taken as insulting. If you can't laugh at yourself...you are taking life too seriously. :-)

I absolutely love music in all it's forms, and am always up for a new experience that will enrich my life. Paid or free. I'm grateful that high-end dealers take the time to let me listen to the amazing systems out there, but would gladly pay a fee to enjoy time with one, just like I do when I go to an IMAX.

Anyways, have a great turkey day folks.
Mot

A long, long, time ago you actually heard music being played when you walked into an Hi-Fi store , you could actually touch, feel and listen...

The nerve ................

The High End never had a clue how to market themselves to the Great Unwashed. The demise of so many "Audio Salons" proves that point and it's sad...instead of helping people see the virtue of beautiful music as self evident, they cater to the .1 of 1% of us who are compulsive hobbyists and sniff at the unsophisticated potential customer as unworthy af attention. People with no interest in audio gear per se hear my system and say, "wow...that sounds AMAZING" and I point out that it all cost me less than a decent swiss watch. Why don't the gear manufacturers buy adds in the NY Times? Because people are too stupid to get it?...although people buy a Mercedes or BMW and THAT marketing seems to make sense somehow.

I am a little late chiming in on this thread since a friend just told me about it yesterday. He felt I should jump on in since one of the systems highlighted in one of the posts as an example is mine.

I do have mixed feelings about this. Part of me feels that the only person that should pay to listen to a particular system is the owner that did so after painstakingly putting it together. We have all already payed prices just to listen to our own systems and in my book, that is enough.

Personally, I welcome anyone to come over and listen, because a big part of this hobby to me is the sharing and the community. I want to be able to share what I have learned so far and continue to learn from others. I would have stagnated out several times over had it not been for listening to other systems and to the suggestions from visitors to my room. There always seems to be a new adventure (an improvement) just around the corner.

I think I would question someones motives for wanting to charge somebody to listen to their system. It just seems so against my own involvement in this hobby. But, I suppose there are a few legit reasons for asking for money. The bottom line is that if I really wanted to listen to something, say far from home, and that was the only way it was going to happen, then yes I might do it.

YES! One condition. I get to assembly the system. I would be a repeat customer for $20.00.

I used to do that when I attended the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. I paid to hear a number of different systems. Now I volunteer and attend for "free", except for the time I donate.

If a friend invited me to hear a fabulous system in their home, then I'd probably bring a bottle of wine or scotch.

why would anyone pay to hear a recording ? it makes sense to pay for a concert, although some are free, but it seems ludicrous to pay to hear a recording, regardless of how good the sound is.

the human element is missing (nothing visual) when you listen to a stereo. the feeling of the audienece is missing. its an incomplete experience and while it is the next best thing to a concert, it is a distant second. if anything, the dealer should pay you to listen to his system.

"There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning."
If one doesn't understand this comment, then one doesn't understand the 'lust' that hopeless audiophiles (like me) experience when seeing a pair of the big boy MBL's, the big boy Sound Labs--the newest VAC Gear by Kevin Hayes.
Most of us 'crazies' might entertain paying for the opportunity...some stores in New York and other metro areas, during the 'heat' of economic better times, DID, I am told charge for a session, the price of which, on purchase would be credited to that purchase. So...this is not a new concept in that regard...its just that, in the dark light, (hmmm that would simply be dark, right?) of the current economic reality, it seems out of place to think anyone would pay for this priv.

So, I'd have to say, 'if you have to ask', you're not a hopeless audiophile like some of us. lol

Larry

Mrtennis, most of us pay for our recorded music; therefore, we pay to listen to recordings. If you don't pay, that's a moral decision that you've made, but I support musicians with payment in the hopes that they'll produce more great music that I can enjoy.

Do what I did...having been a musician for many years I volunteered to help with the sound for a monthly "folkie" concert series in a town I moved to in 1999...this lead to my designing their system and then running it for 9 years (this also lead to doing other "soundman" gigs for PAY even...still do a few), until I moved away. It covered many bases: I got my "Gear Head Geek" on with the sweet pro gear, I heard and hung out with the BEST touring singer/songwriter/pickers I could imagine, and could sit there and be "Knob Turner" dialing in what I thought sounded best while recording everything. In Stereo...like I said...do that...it was as if I was stealing beauty.

I have so paid that dub and have gotten a hundred thousand system moved out of the way so I could enjoy the music.

For clarification: "Paid that dub" means one has provided financing for dialog editing in a film or audio recording. "Hundred thousand system moved" means the writer had mistakenly parked his used Bentley on the stage at the Hollywoood Bowl and hired a crane to remove it so the orchestra could perform.

hi dcstep:

perhaps i have misunderstood what you said or you have misunderstood what i said.

this is not a moral issue.

i bought many recordings. i paid for them. i occasionally attend live concerts. i pay to hear musicians perform.

the sound of a live concerts is so superior to that of any stereo system, that i will not pay to listen to a stereo system.

i hope that puts the answer into its proper context.

Mrtennis said:

"the sound of a live concerts is so superior to that of any stereo system, that i will not pay to listen to a stereo system."

If you've bought LP/CDs or any type of software and you play it on a system that you paid for, then you "pay" to listen to music on a stereo system.

Many people, not you I think, don't pay for their software, chosing instead to steal it. That's a moral issue that's, unfortunately in my opinion, more widespread than it probably should be.

Mrtennis said:

"the sound of a live concerts is so superior to that of any stereo system, that i will not pay to listen to a stereo system."

Sometimes it is...many times it isn't. That will depend hugely on the venue, where you sit/stand, how well the engineers have set things up, and the mood of the performers on that night. There are a ton of variables, just like in recorded music.

I've heard unbelievable concerts, and I've heard terrible ones. I'd gladly pay to listen to a really well recorded performance, instead of those crappy ones. :-)

hi dcstep:

you have completely misunderstood this thread.

the intent i believe is to pose the question:

"would you pay to audition a stereo system at a dealer's show room" ?

i have answered this question by saying that i would not because, i would rather pay a bit more and hear live music.

for those who entertain the posssibility that a stereo system can sound better than a live symphony orchestra is like saying a picture of a person is preferable to the person.

Nothing was said about a dealer Mr T.

You're welcome to read anything you like into any question, just don't tell me how to respond.

I answered when I said that I paid to attend audio fests, like RMAF. There's no pressure to buy anything in that situation and the listener gets to hear a wide variety of systems, many costing much more than 100k.

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Mrtennis, a dealer was never entered into the equation of this post and never was it implied. As a matter of fact I made sure to express that there would be no pressure or expectation to buy anything. The same as when someone goes to the theater to see a movie, there is no salesman standing nearby expecting you to buy a projector...same here.

The fact that shows like the Rocky Mtn AudioFest and CES exist, pretty much confirms there is a good sized contingent of audiophiles willing to travel and pay good money to see and hear very expensive audio.................and then again, some wouldn't pay a nickel to see either of those two shows.

In the words of the inimitable Sylvester Stewart "Diferent strokes for different folks....and so on and so on....".
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Sorry Tvad my response was kinda cryptic! Damn touch predictive screen keyboard ####, What was meant was I'd rather spend the twenty on the drink minimum.

yeah, without a doubt I would pay to listen. If you buy, maybe you get a refund on the listening session?

I just re-read my early post to this subject.

I'll reiterate but rephrase. Casual drop ins would be discouraged by what basically amounts to an admission ticket.

IF the store had a dedicated room with 'the really neat' system which you had to pay to hear.... but the rest of the store were open/free/accessible? That would change the balance. 'Show' the system and charge. Tubes / media / floor space cost a bundle.
BUT:
In order to attract new listeners, you have to be able to SHOW people it is better.
The BOSE store I went by yesterday had a good walk-in trade. People talking tech with SALES guys, not necessarily interested in the best sound or interests of the customer. IF the Bose store charged even 1$ to get in, many would walk on by.

Mitch4t
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Mrtennis, a dealer was never entered into the equation of this post and never was it implied. As a matter of fact I made sure to express that there would be no pressure or expectation to buy anything.

From the posts following this statement I see MrT and I aren't the only ones who figured the question pertained to a retail audio salon of some sort.

Few retail businesses have the potential "snoot factor" that "High End Audio SALONS" can have. I've spent bundles of cash in the ones who merely treat me with courtesy and professionalism and laugh at the others. That said, if the "salon" wants to charge to hear things, it's up to the public to accept it...and I bet it would be seen as a "last gasp" of an apparently elitist establishment on their way to Chapter 11.

The more I think about, the more I think, what an excellent idea. Prpixel, the point you make about you needing to sell listening space for 8 hours a day for 3 years, to break even, seems to miss the point. I presume we are talking of dealers opening up there top listening rooms to the poor unwashed. They do'nt have to cover the cost with selling listening time as you are selling the kit too.

I personally wo'nt go to a dealer unless I am in the market to buy, it is'nt fair on them. It does'nt mean I am going to buy, just I might if I am impressed. Yes a live gig might be better, but only one artist and not playing what you specifically want to hear.

So the more I think about it, the more intersting an idea it becomes. Dealers do this already with open evenings to listen to a particular set up. Why not offer listening sessions when they are quiet. They build a relationship with potential clientele and you get a guilt free audition. Everybody seems to win here.

Dealers who would encourage limiting their customer base in ANY WAY, either with an elitist attitude or fees, I would consider insane and clearly not interested in staying in business. Having seen a lot of high end audio places die over the last several years (and employing one former owner at my own financial services company) I can suggest to these last few to open the doors wide. The fact that anybody whould feel guilty visiting a retail location when not intent on buying anything in particular should cause the sales people to panic. They should host free concerts and PAY the musicians, free manufacturer seminars, give out free munchies and baloons (well...maybe not baloons), do SOMETHING to lure people in there so they can educate the public about their groovy piles of gear and maybe SELL SOME OF IT. There are plenty of reasons for the lack of interest among most people in high end audio, the most obvious being retailers not seeming to be interested in reaching out beyond their core of "hobbyists", and that is just sad and more than a little stupid.

Agree w Wolf. Never give away free "baloons";~)

I would rather spend $600 and spend 3 days at RMAF - a great "vacation" for audiophiles. The worst sounding system I ever heard, well at least I felt the need to leave the room, was an all Cello multiamp, blah, blah with huge speakers costing several 100Ks and purchased with giddy dot.com $$$ with no prior audio experience. I could not believe how unpleasant it was to listen to, but I did not have the heart to tell the fella.... Really, much more impressed by great 25K systems (not cheap)which can be as good as it gets, and a lot more fune to build than just throwing $$$ in the hopes of a great system.

Balloons. Bad spelling is part of my charm.

Nope...I agree with Tvad

Do i have a problem spending $20 bucks to experience something truly high end? Not at all. I enjoy the hobby far more than I enjoy television or movies and the opportunity cost of the $20 is insignificant.

It would be fun to gain perspective on what the truly high end can do as my system is worth about a quarter of that (though much of it is Chinese gear which I feel increases SQ per dollar ratio significantly).

That said, I would be scared to open a can of worms that might help me identify flaws in my own system or 'sonic preferences' I didn't know I had...

Absolutely, I would. I just heard a $105,000 system at Audio Video Logic near where I live in Des Moines and it was absolutely fabulous. Of course that was free (and they provided the beer - nice guys). I can see myself paying $20 - $30 to hear a $200,000+ system (especially if it was an analog rig in a well-executed dedicated room.

Bad spelling is part of my charm.

Unfortunately, being a wise-a$$ is part of mine.

I would rather spend $600 and spend 3 days at RMAF - a great "vacation" for audiophiles.

Absolutely. A great time and shows just how good some modest equipment can sound AND how mediocre some very expensive rigs can sound.

I think "whoring out" a high end audio system turns the owners into "audio pimps." Sleezy back door deals would be made..."OK Bob...10 bucks and you can hear the intro to Mahler's 8th and THAT'S IT pal!" "Hey there mister...wanna come in for some Chesky 180 gram?...come on baby..the first 3 minutes are FREE!" I can see the drooling audiophiles in the alley digging into their Dockers for a crumpled 20 to slide into the greasy palm of the doorman..."Come on dude...I gotta hear the Magicos...please man...all I got at home is Adcom and Polk." Then, of course, the gear world would be littered with Wilson Sophias in tattered grill covers and shop worn woofers wandering Ebay with no shread of self respect...

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Wolfman, get a grip, you're losin' it man.

Take a tip from the previous post by Manoterror below:

lol…where do you guys get the curmudgeon sized vat of starch for your underwear?

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To be honest, only a fool would pay twenty bucks an hour to hear a high priced system. However I just happened to be one of those fools. In fact I have paid fifty dollars just to demo a new piece of gear for a weekend. The logic behind this is, it is better to spend fifty dollars then pay the full price and find out your not happy with your purchase. However if you do decide to buy the dealer would apply the fifty towards the purchase price.

Would i pay to listen? ..... depends on who's singing !!!!

Mitch4t...Wow...that one just steamed right by ya! Sorry though. I do have trouble with the practice of any form of mirth control. However, I suppose humorous or satirical writing has NO place in an audio forum and from now on I promise to be dreary and technical and keep my satirical rants to myself. Or not. Please let me know when I cross the line...I can also loan you a ladder to help insure that in the future less things go over your head.

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Okay Wolf, you blew that one by me. I thought that you'd flipped out. Thanks for the offer of the ladder, but I suggest you hold onto your day job.....
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i just realized that the question "would you pay to listen" is ambiguous.

it's obvious that if you travel to rmaf or ces there is a travel, room and board cost asoociated with the trip.

i believe the connotation of the question is:

would you pay to listen to a component or stereo system ?

if so, i would not.

while it is less costly to outlay $50.00 than to buy a component , sell it and loss more than $50, out of principle, i refuse to pay to listen to a stereo system, regardless of its alleged reputation of sound quality.

i guess i'll miss the experienece.

i won't pay $50 to borrow a component either.

i'll find a component that i can borrow for an audition, without paying for it.

Mrtennis, thankyou sir for your difference of opinion, this is what makes the threads more interesting to read at times. Sometimes it is hard for me not to want to try other products especially ones that have been ranted over and then have to pay for that privilege on top of it. If the crowd is all moving to the right, I may go in that direction to see what all the fuss is about. Human nature I suppose.

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Mr. Tennis,

I'll be more specific. The place you go to hear the system would not be a dealer, just an establishment that sells listening time, similar to the kind of establishment that sells studio time to musicians. You go into a room with the dimensions of your choosing. Acoustically, the room has been professionally prepped to get optimum results. You pay one dollar per $10k of equipment that you want to listen to. That is, ten bucks if you want to hear $100k worth of gear, twenty bucks if you want to hear $200k worth of gear. You choose the mfg and models of any and all equipment that you want to hear. You are free to mix and match any gear of your choosing. The listening session would be private, or you could have guests if you choose to. Bring your own cd's, LP's, sacd's, open reel tapes or hard drives. Of course, none of the gear would be for sale. If you'd like to buy any of the equipment, you would have to contact the mfg and find a dealer on your own. No salesmen would be on the premises, just the trained tech to assemble the system that you've specified. If you think you are smarter than the tech, you are welcome to make suggestions or set up the system yourself.

The whole idea is to hear equipment that you'd probably never be able to afford to own. If I could afford to buy it, I'd just buy the damn thing. But, the system that I want to hear costs north of $400k. Unless I hit the Mega-Powerball lottery, I'll never be able to afford such a system, but I'd sure pay money to hear it.
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Yo Mitch4t...my day job is Comedy Writer.

And I would pay $20 to watch people scurry around wiring up a 200K system I've designed for them to assemble for me. That in itself would be worth it..."little to the left there Bob...and don't forget the Magic Bricks and Mpingo discs"...listening to it would be gravy after watching a sweaty tech earn less than an oil changer at Jiffy Lube. Still, to revisit the real world for a moment, I think these high end gear sales dudes are missing a great opportunity that recently was grabbed by the guitar freaks...make it sexy. Ever see "Guitar Aficionado" magazine (pretty funny over the top nonesense)? It's pure "guitar porn" not really matched by any of the hifi mags I've seen...and the overpriced world of "guitars actual musicians can't afford" is booming. If you look at an issue of Architectural Digest, except for maybe an overstuffed "Media Room" for film and popcorn digesting, there is almost NEVER a visible "wealth level appropriate" audio rig anywhere.

Mitch4 Sorry, that is'nt going to happen. It would'nt be a viable business model, to set up premises just to sell listening time for HiFi. It would have to be in a store selling kit as well, to make it viable. High end stores have the time. When have you ever been to one where customers are fighting to get assistants attention.

The store has fixed costs in terms of rent, the kit itself, salesmen, why not sweat the assets by selling listening time.

I repeat, I do'nt think it is fair to go to a store and audition, if you are not in the market to buy, at least without being upfront and saying why you are in the store. If the manager is happy to help foster good elations with a customer, that's fine. I for one, would frequent a store with that outlook. It never ceases to amaze me, how many shops are downright rude and dismissive of potential customers, howdo they stay in business. You have to encourage your customer base, say with open access demo evenings, with coffee or a few beers.

I would if atmasphere's preamp and MA3's were driving the best soundlab speaker made today;using a top digital source and analog setup;I think I would place down a twenty.

You got that right Rleff. Or maybe the big Audio Classics w the field coil driver. But I agree with David12 and Wolf that it ain't gonna happen in the real world, beyond an open listening promo session that a high-end boutique might offer. Can you imagine someone allowing any Tom Dick or Harriette to handle their $10K tonearm w a $15K nude cantilever cart on it. I know I would not. I also agree that its hard to understand why more dealers don't offer once a month evening sessions. Beside generating good will, it might be a viable way to separate the tire-kickers from the buyers.

hi mitch 4t:

in principle, based upon your paradigm of the context of the listening environment you propose, i would not pay to listen. there is no justification in my mind to pay for listening to a pre-owned stereo system , regardless of its alleged quality.

The so-called high-end dealers should perform a credit check first, before honoring such requests. Audi dealers do that in a very subtle way. You sure don't want an used car buyer to test drive an brand new Audi for the hack of it.

;-)

Mr tennis would you pay to be able to compare what your system can do vs a 100k system can do?
I would think most of the audiophiles have that question in the back of their mind;it is something I do think about but in reality will probally never be answered.