WOULD IT BE DUMB TO BUY A MARK LEVINSON NO 23.5

He bought it :-) and loves it
how wonderful is that!!!!!

congrats !!! Enjoy

I owned one bought new. I used it for many years with Thiel’s, Mirage M1, ProAc’s  it was a great sounding amp. Built like a Brick House. Replaced by ARC Classic 120’s that blew up a lot. Replaced with another Levinson no 333. Enjoy your amp, and F the naysayers!

czarivey is right!
czarivey is right!
czarivey is right!
czarivey is right!

At 30 years old, I would look elsewhere.

 

We listened to ML amps when we built some of the stands for his HQD system in the 1970's:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hqd+system&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=oDvvwsSTPRC3eM%253A%252CYNcqBNbhtX4oTM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTvSmSyU72Kn9fIJDtJx6fVRY3-Vw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiahMql9KjnAhUUa80KHWkjBqAQ9QEwC3oECAoQGg#imgrc=oDvvwsSTPRC3eM:

Compared to Audio Research (tube, of course) and Bryston, as well as Crown, SAE, and other solid state amps of the day, it was OK.  The Bryson's sounded better to us, but you have to judge.  I was very unimpressed with them on Maggies for all the areas you look for.  They were a bit shrill, slow, and sounded hollow to me.  Reminded me of the difference between a Nakamichi 1000 and the vinyl (no digital in those days).  The Nak was perfect in reproducing what was recorded, but had a "hollow" backsound to it.  ML amps did the same for us, but you decide.

As others have posted, it is a very expensive part to service regardless of the downstroke (initial price).  I think for 2500 you could get a better product, but you have to decide.  

Have you heard one on your system IN YOUR ROOM?  Makes all the difference, of course.  Be bad if you got it and it did not meet your needs or expectations.

Finally, why so inexpensive?  Buyer beware!

Cheers!

Check the capacitors for leaks, bulging, etc. If you don’t see any problems, you should be good. It is one of the better amps around and can drive pretty much any speaker. And it has a beautiful midrange. This amp bring the best out of voices with tightly focused image and clearly defined boundaries.

It has plenty of slam. Don’t worry about some of the issues mentioned above. If it ain’t broken, don’t try to fix it. When the time comes, it will let you know if things needs to be changed/upgraded.

Considering the age of the amp, my suggestion is turn this off when not listening and turn on about 30 mins before a session. There are reasons to leave solid-state amps on all time. But not this one. Heat from the unit can do more harm to the older electronics.

I did it. I bought it for 2 grand. Its playing now over the the Martin Logans. Thought it would be harsh with the Logans. It's not. Its lush. I knew my Logans where an open speaker but now its wall to wall soundstage. The delicacy and detail of instruments. The air. Oh, and in all the excitement I forgot to hook up the REL SUBWOOFERS. Thought they were playing the bass is out of this world. 30 year old amp? Bring over anything to try beat this!!! Oh and MEYER AV in Los angeles is one of the few authorized service centers for Levinson will do a rebuild for 2 grand. Its going there this month. I will be in it 4 grand. Doubt anything can touch it. LEVINSON IS THAT GOOD!!!

@testpilot
Yes, taking anything apart can be a pain. Try real consumer gear, made to NOT be fixable....
But I would not have expected them to obscure parts values, unless its a very unusual, secret way of using a part. But cap voltages? really? That also means they are buying custom runs - which simply drives up cost on parts that one ought to be able to get from distributor stock.

I had a JC-1 and some later stuff that was clear as day. But that, admittedly, is ancient history.
Anyway, if they are, its a good point.
I'd just measure the DC values and work backwards though.  they can't obscure those!

It’s the most breakable brand in the gear!
And it's very expensive to fix
And it's very expensive to fix...
It's the most breakable brand in the gear!

Tadam!!!

The thing with vintage Levinson amps you should be aware of is not the power supply capacitors but the EMI suppression caps (Rifa PME271) across the mains voltage. These apparently do not age well and fail short, creating a fire hazard. I had one of these fail on my Levinson 20.6 -- saw a wisp of smoke and shut it down, and still there was burn damage on the pcb. Then I replaced all those caps in both amps.

(Here is a picture of a 23.5 for sale as is for parts:
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649367673-mark-levinson-235-for-parts-or-possible-repair/images/1595023/
the fire started at the front of the amp where the power supply board is located).

When I got my 23.5, the first thing i did was to replace all of the EMI caps. It was a bear of a job because both heat sinks had to be removed to get to the front board and then there was the spaghetti nest of wiring to contend with. The power supply caps were easy to replace since they are held in place by cap brackets and the wires are connected by screw terminal to eyelet lugs. You can move the heat sinks out of the way without desoldering any wires since there is JUST enough play in the wires for the caps to clear.

Worth it? IMO you would have to spend upwards of $20k to get the same kind of low end unlimited current delivery performance.

Send it to Pyramid audio in Austin, Texas.   They are a Levinson authorized service center.   I had them service my ML 33h.

Enjoy and good luck, 
Jose

If you have Maggie's, the 23.5 was the cat's meow at the time. I remember it as having cavernous power reserves and rather liquid, but imagine it would be like owning an old Jaguar--good memories, but now a money pit and the company has moved on.

@itsjustme, search the forum and web regarding recapping and servicing legacy Levinson amplifiers. It’s not as simple as a part swap, the labour to get at the components is outrageous.  In addition, Levinson masks parts values etc. A lot of very capable service techs refuse to work on Levinson products. Unfortunately, I know this first hand. 

I'll second comments that its a bit sterile sounding, but i'll also second comments that its well made.  And while electrolytic capacitors degrade with age - my experience, having shipped -- and seen the results -- 100s of units is that if you really use top quality parts, and run them well within limits, the problems begin 30 years out - not 15.  Yea, i had some cap failures but in retrospect the problem was usually a modest oversight on my part. Ive frankly had more problems with new Chinese capacitors than with old US and European made ones. Or the quality Japanese brands.  Caveat emptor w/r/t specs.

Now, on to re-capping without schematics.  remove cap. Look at specs.  replace cap.  Who needs a schematic?  yes, they are nice to have to identify critical components - but we're talking preventative replacement of things that go boom - not subtle circuit tweeks.
I'll leave the sonic value judgement to the only one who matters.  You.

If I wus a rapper it would have to been about guns, weed, da crib, and bitchez .... but I guess it applies there as well...

It also plays into a bit of data that came clear some years back, regarding intelligence as speed of cognition. That the difference is calculated at a halving of rumination time for every calculated IQ increase of approx 5 points. Which means that the difference between 100 and 200 IQ, is a rumination speed differential of approximately 300,000. 100 to 120 alone, is ~ 16x.

And that this applies to the ear/brain combination just as potently as basic intelligence, as associations can go.

So some move past the given thing fast, and some find a life in there. Wherever and whatever the given there may be.

Thus it is impossible to fault a person for their choices, but I will fault them if there is projected impingement, whether they possess awareness of the impingement or not. It’s all fun and games until someone gets their audio poked out.

eg, someone starts a cable hating thread. And they've been given chances before. Thus it is not just ignorance, but projections and damaging levels of impingement. 

So one walks them off a cliff with no rancor. Just...get it done.

     
     Wow, teo_audio, you should be a philosopher....or a rapper.
      I feel enlightened, am I glowing?

Tim

It is a ’student seeking truth and thinking they found it’ kind of amplifier. (and we are all students)

It is another layer of the onion.

Thus, it is not a perfect amp, it is a step on the stairs upward.

At the same time there is no reason that it should not be purchased and enjoyed. Everyone does it differently and at a different pace.

For some it may be seen as a large enough plateau to have or stage a life cycle upon. That the walls are far enough away that it is not felt to be a box to climb out of, but an open field of dreams.

If one looks with careful enough eyes, and attentive enough mind, then this analogy can be applied to just about anything.

Pass its ancient history and needs a rebuild.

I had the 23.5 for awhile, way back when. I just saw one listed last week (could be the same one), and couldn't believe how much they wanted for it. It was a good amp, especially for driving low impedance speakers. I thought it was a bit on the warm side of neutral. Personally, I wouldn't pay $2.5k for it. I'd rather spend a bit more on something more recent and not worry about what @testpilot  mentioned above. If you have to spend another $2.5k down the road to get it fixed, you now have $5k into it. After putting a total of $5k into it, how much do you think you could resell it for? Probably only $2.5k at the most. You could have used that money for something more current (1-10 years old), and better. As Suse Orman would say "Denied".

Any time I've heard Levinson amps they were sterile and lifeless. I think you can do better for 2500.00.


Oz

Great amp but they are VERY expensive to recap and service due to the fact the Levinson does not provide schematics to non authorized service centers. From what I am told, you will need to budget $2 to $2.5K for a future recap. 

Hello jeffvegas,

Well, I recently bought a pre-owned Levinson 326S preamp for half of its $10K new price in 2005 and couldn’t be happier with it. That’s about 15 years old so I don’t think you’re totally nuts. The old Levinson gear holds its value for a reason; it’s high quality stuff.
Of course, there’s a lot more that can go wrong with a 30 year old ss class A amp than a ss class A preamp half its age. As I understand it, leaking old capacitors, especially in its power supply section, are the main area of concern with older ss amps. I’d suggest searching out a well respected and perhaps independent repair shop(owned by a former Levinson repairman?) and ask how much they’d charge for a complete 23.5 amp overhaul/restoration.

First, listen to the as-is 23.5 amp with your current preamp and speakers if you’re able.  Next, add the rehab and shipping costs to the $2,500 price.  The next step would be to make your decision based on your audition and the rehab included adjusted price to value basis.   If you think it's worth it, have the rehab done immediately, using it as little as possible in the meantime.

Good luck,
Tim

I'd wait. At some point price will come down to performance. Not there yet.