I would definitely look for VAC products. |
I would definitely look for Hegel products. |
I would definitely look for _________________ products. |
If you heard the MMMicro One speakers at the last RMAF, the excellent sound came in part from the BMC Amp C1 integrated amp. |
Podeschi, roll tubes you will be suprised. I never liked stocked tubes in any preamp I owned, unless Audio Research because you can't get any other tubes. |
JWM,
I sold the VAC Ren Mk III. Will have a replacement soon. Was surprised how at least one other preamp brought out the better side of the VAC 450S amp. Interestingly, I never thought I'd a hear a preamp that would beat the VAC Ren Mk III, it was that good. |
In order to support a tube product, with the exception to Shindo, manufacturers need a large inventory of tubes. Also manufacturers expect MAJORITY of owners to roll so don't use rare NOS for stock.
One of the reasons later Sig MKIIa has a 8416 / 6922 switch is to allow more rolling options. You have no idea the abilities of your Ren Mk III with stock tubes. |
Podeschi,
I`ve read good things about the Hegel preamp and hope you`re happy with it.I would say though that you didn`t hear the VAC SIG MK II at anywhere near its best if you only heard the stock tubes. The VAC is capable of an entirely different level of sound with better tubes installed.Hegel appears to be gathering more attention in this country.It would have been interesting to compare the VAC with better tubes to the Hegel P 30.
Regards, |
So Podeschi, What amplifier will replace your VAC 450 to power your S5? |
Charles1dad, I had (and sold) the VAC Ren Mk iii, not the signature. The Hegel P30 to my ears made the VAC 450S sing - tighter more articulate bass, bigger soundstage, more air and extension. The VAC Ren slowed down and constricted the 450S by comparison. But we are talking gold and silver medal winners - no losers or laggards. Both preamps kick butt compared to any 10-20k preamps I have auditioned. Hegel is a sleeper brand. They could double their asking price and still be competitive. I was shocked. Zero bling factor , but for me i listen to my equipment more than i look at it.
Aprica88, I pulled my ad down for the VAC 450S - instead of buying constellation gear right now i am going to see if i can improve the A/C in my listening room. The 450 throws the heat. A good combo is vac in winter and h30 in summer. |
Charles1dad, i had/sold vac ren mk iii not the signature. P30 was more lively, extended, fast, open etc, and almost matched harmonic textural realism of VAC. Both were/are winners. I thought Hegelbrought out best of vac 450 amp.
Aprica88, i took the ad down for vac amp, going to try to increase a/c capability in my listening room - 450 throws the heat. If not then maybe constellation at some point. VAC 450 for the winter and Hegel H30 for the summer may be all i need. |
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Podeschi I'm sure you must be intrigued to try the Hegel H20/H30 amps as well.
Any plans for that? Or will throwing out all the tubes at once be too much too quickly? |
I am a bit amazed when someone identifies the absolute "best" of anything. I cannot make such a definitive determination amongst the really limited universe of the stuff I own, much less, all the other stuff out there. I have two tube linestages that could be among the best that I own, but, both have their strengths and weaknesses, so I cannot say which is the best. One is an Emotive Audio Epifania, the other is a custom built preamp that is fully transformer coupled (input transformers, output transformers, no capacitors in the signal path, feeding an amp that also has input transformers and no capacitors in the signal path). |
Agisthos,
Yes huge fan of Hegel...wanting to try H30 which could be a great summer amp. Hegel is punching so much higher above it's weight class. Refreshing to see a brand that makes a $7,500 preamp that competes with $20,000 preamps. I'm sure the $15,000 H30 competes with $20-30k amps. My only fear is Hegel will start charging prices much higher and more in line with what other manufacturers are charging. |
In the VAC 450 mono, many found rolling the "vo-1" position offered tremendous improvements. Not sure what position on 450 stereo ...
Podeschi, contact Kevin and roll some tubes before selling the 450s. :-) |
Listening to 450S thru ARC Ref40 preamp restored my faith in what the 450S is capable of to the point I am now going to figure out how to get better A\C in the listening room. Even thru the Hegel P30 i got a fuller taste of the 450S. some reason the Ren MkIII wasnt the best match with it. Listened again with P30 ... There is some magic in that preamp ...almost as good as the ARC on a few dimensions. |
Podeschi
In your opinion does the Hegel P30 somewhat mimic a tube preamp? I am trying to get a handle on how it is different from other SS preamps( I ask cause if I get one I will have to buy it blind).
thanks |
Budt,
The P30 has the absence of dry electronic sheen/overlay that i hear in many SS preamps. So a musical real liquid midrange and treble but bigger and more extended than most tube amps. Where it is a champion is throwing a nice expansive soundstage and deliberately controlling and articulating the lower registers. I was dumbfounded how a small relatively inexpensive preamp could easily beat 10-15k preamps and handily compete with 20-25k preamps. No bling factor but it delivers the goods. My ARC ref 40 is better than the P30 and my Centaur is much better than any amp i have heard including the H30. But i could easily and happily live with an all Hegel system. Together their preamp and amp take everything up a notch. |
Budt,
The P30 has the absence of dry electronic sheen/overlay that i hear in many SS preamps. So a musical real liquid midrange and treble but bigger and more extended than most tube amps. Where it is a champion is throwing a nice expansive soundstage and deliberately controlling and articulating the lower registers. I was dumbfounded how a small relatively inexpensive preamp could easily beat 10-15k preamps and handily compete with 20-25k preamps. No bling factor but it delivers the goods. My ARC ref 40 is better than the P30 and my Centaur is much better than any amp i have heard including the H30. But i could easily and happily live with an all Hegel system. Together their preamp and amp take everything up a notch. |
Podeschi, the way you describe the P30 reminds me of the way the Pass XP-30 sounded in my system. But add the nuance, refinement of great tubes and the neutrality and transparency of great SS pre amps. |
Peterayer, now that sounds like my ARC Ref 40!! The Pass XP-30 must be awesome. It sure is attractive looking gear. |
I don't know if it does, but I agree that it is and it is. I borrowed one to compare to my XP-20. It is better, and it costs more. Someday, I hope to buy one. The down side is that it takes up a lot of space with three boxes which should be separated to sound their best. |
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The biggest sleeper at Hegel which currently is their best value product, is their new P20 Preamp, which is just about 90% of the performance of the P30 according to Jordan who I spoke to several weeks ago who is one of the largest Hegel dealers in the country at Adirondack Audio & Video in Queensbury, N.Y.. Jordan did listening trials with the H20 amp switching back and forth the P30 and P20 Preamp and there were times on certain CD tracks that he could not tell the difference between the two Pre's, their that close. Ander's at Hegel, the V.P. of marketing and sales, in a recent interview stated that the idea behind the P20 was to make a world class budget Preamp that is very close to the P30 which is not selling as well as Hegel anticipated. The P20 sells at $2900.00 and Hegel makes very little profit from the P20. It uses silicon germanium transistor's, which were invented in 1989 that are exclusively used in the computer and aerospace industry. Hegel is the first to use these very innovative transistors in a Preamp. The P20 is a no brainer for $2900.00 to buy getting just about all the performance of the P30 for over $4K less. |
If the P20 is 90 percent of the P30 and is $2,900 it is the best value product I have heard of. |
I own the Hegel P20 preamplifier. I paid $2800 for it. Sonically it is superb in my system and sounded equally as good at my dealer demonstration. Bounced it directly against the Hegel P30 which is $7,500. The comment about the P20 being 90% of the P30 is just about right. The differences were subtle but could be heard. The differences to my ears were mainly in the area of refinement and nothing else. Just slightly better. The price difference of $4700 between the two I could not justify by the slight increase in sonics.
Listened quite awhile to both preamps in a system that consisted of Rockport Avior's, Hegel H20 amp, Hegel HD25 Dac, MIT cabling and a computer server setup. Switched in a Berkeley Alpha DAC series 2 and Berkely Alpha USB convertor during the demo. Brought the P20 home and ended up buying it. No regrets. I actually would have paid more for it than Hegels selling price if needed. I think it is a bargain. |
Jimf..By chance have you listened to the Hegel H-300 integrated and does it come close to the Hegel separates? The reviews have been very positve and it appears to be Hegel's best selling product. Also, you probably are aware that Hegel will be coming out next Spring with
the H20 MKII amplifier with a larger power supply which will use the new amp platform that is in the H-300 integrated. |
World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above? |
I did not audition the Hegel H-300 as I was not interested in an integrated but I could have. Neither of the Hegel preamps are 10K and above in price so they are not in line with the title of this thread. However their performance is. I previously owned a Spectral DMC 30 SL preamp in my system which I paid close to $9,600 for and I prefer the Hegel.
The Spectral DMC 30 SS series 2 preamp was auditioned in my system awhile ago and I liked it. It is over $10,000. I can not comment on it versus the Hegel as they were not here at the same time.
If comments in this thread should be restricted to preamps that retail $10,000 or above I respect that.
I only wanted to comment on a comment that was made that generated some interest. I don't post often but usually do only if I have direct experience with a mentioned product. This direct experience may be of interest to some readers. |
World's best Pre-amp for $10K and above? When I started this thread Peterayer I did not phrase the subject title correctly. So be it. The subject that was intended was to point out Pre-amps below $10K that would be on the same sonic playing field as Pre-amps selling in the range of $10K to $20K which Hegel has achieved. Another Pre-amp that has achieved that level is the Parasound Halo JC-2. |
In my case I would have to make the purchase blind .So I decided to strike Hegel from my list. There are many good choices in that range which are well made and retain decent resale value. I never even heard of Hegel till a few weeks ago so I think it may be difficult to sell on the used market and therefore one may have difficulty getting even 50% of the original price.
If I ever get a chance to audition one perhaps I will change my mind.
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Not sure where my response went I left last night. Maybe it will show up.
In response to your question I did not audition the H-300 as I was not interested in an integrated. My focus was on preamps. My posting on this thread was only in response to a comment already made not to hijack the thread into another area.
Neither Hegel sells for $10k. That is true. However the sound qualifies based on my experiences. I have owned in my system a Spectral DMC-30SL which retailed around $8500 or so based on my memory. I prefer the Hegel. I have also heard the Spectral DMC 30SS series 2 in my system and liked it but not at the same time as the Hegel so I cannot comment on this . This Spectral retails at $10,000. The closer performer to this would be the P30 which retails at $7,500. The P20 is not far behind at $2,800. A bargain. |
Thank you for the clarification. I was wondering why there was so much discussion about preamps that I thought you wanted excluded by the thread's title. I understand now. |
Does anyone here have an opinion on the H-CAT preamp? |
Has anyone compared the Hegel P20 or Hegel P30 to the Sanders Audio preamp(includes phono)? I am researching currently to get another solid state preamp. |
Budt, I do. It is very good and its Wavefront Timing Control allows dialing in a very realistic image. The only problem is that they were very under capitalized and have all but out of business. I am a long time friend of Roger Paul and I cannot reach him any longer. Repair service is very unlikely.
I recently sold one of my P-12Rs to guys in Taiwan and they wrote saying that it smoked very expensive units and they bought another one. |
Each to their own, but I took a drink of the Hegel P30 cool-aid and took one for myself. It certainly derailed my plans to find a nice tube preamp. The dynamics are excellent, background is silent and it has a well-behaved flat response. The P30 is quite transparent. In my sorting process an AMR DP-777 and an especially an Ayre KX-5 were easily bested and kicked to the curb. The Hegel gear puts all your monies towards function without needless bling and glitter.
I do have one complaint though, that the P30 remote control jumps the volume in steps bigger than the 1 db than I had grown accustomed to. Because I generally listen at low levels, I simply take advantage of the bit-headroom of the HD25 DAC and reduce input levels, but I'd be interested to hear if others have another approach. |
Generally speaking you want to run your digital sources at full output and use the volume control in the preamp, as usually preamps have better volume control situations than digital products do.... |
In my personal experience, the Koda takumi K 10 is the best I've experienced. You might want to check out Audioexotics.hk/ for multiple raves. Everything they say is right on. The only American line stage that approaches it is the Exemplar XP-2. |
Another vote for the Robert Koda K10. My reference. |
The one Preamp that would be a serious challenge to the Takumi K-10 is the Balabo BC-1 MKII. These two Preamps are at the top of the mountain and putting them head to head would be one helluva contest. It would probably be to close to call. |
Atmashere - you are or course correct in general, but I'm working off the notion that some DACs with higher internal bit depth do volume attenuation without truncation loss. I'm hoping that includes the HD25, but don't have confirmation on that. I'll do some listening this weekend and see if I can notice.
Those Koda and Balabo units are priced right up there! |
Audiozen, err, what do you get for double the price with the Balabo BC-1? |
one Preamp that would be a serious challenge to the Takumi K-10 is the Balabo BC-1 MKII. These two Preamps are at the top of the mountain I take it this 'mountain' has a large flat surface at the top. |
Not exactly. There's a hole in the top of the mountain. Its a volcano. |
Tbg..what do you get for twice price? Really? Give me a break. Both Jonathan Valin and Robert Harley have gone on record and made the bold statements that the Balabo pre and amplifier are the best sounding gear they have ever heard to date in their entire audio careers as reviewers regardless of solid state or tube designs. What makes the Balabo BC-1 MKII superior over any other solid state or tube preamp designs? The Balabo BC-1 MKII preamp has the most advanced Potentiometer pot and four stage Attenuator assembly on Planet Earth. Its that advanced. No one can touch it. Not Koda, FM Acoustics, Boulder, Krell, Rowland or Spectral as well as Accuphase and McIntosh. Very forward technology. In some cases, you do get what you pay for. Zen |
The Balabo BC-1 MKII preamp has the most advanced Potentiometer pot and four stage Attenuator assembly on Planet Earth. I am really interested to know what is so advanced about this volume control? Thanks! |
I simply don't accept the "this is the best" declarations from anyone. There are endless variables and circumstances that make these claims hollow. All you can truly determine is that a particular component sounds superb and"personally" may be the best you have encountered.How often do Valin or Harley declare something the best? What makes their opinion any more credible than someone else's opinion? Why don't we just say the Balabo is a very fine sounding linestage along with other top tier competitors and leave it at that. |
