look at the spica Angeles there better than the tc 60 |
The company being out of business for several years is a deterent as no replacement parts are available. It is a wonderful speaker, especially modded. There are competitors for that kind of money. |
They are good, not great, my home brews and the maggies walk all over them. But for the money, which is why I have them.
They are not the most robust, driver wise.
jeff |
Because people are stupid!!!!!!!!
Just kidding. Spicas were the biggest bargain going when new. I still have my TC50s. They are not perfect - they don't go very deep in bass and they don't get crazy loud. Compared to the best, they are not as rich throughout the band. However, if you value natural midrange, spaciousness, and resolution they are difficult to beat at any reasonable price. The Angelus is more refined sounding. I've never heard the TC60, but they were advertised as being more dynamic.
I also greatly admired the Maggie 1.6QR, but they are much more difficult in terms of amplifier choice & room placement |
Hi - I have owned 3 pairs of Spicas and still have a pair of TC-50's sitting in a closet at the moment - but if I ever put a system in a smaller room that's what I'd use.
They are basically Midrange Monsters. The midrange and imaging, are IMHO as good as it gets at any price. They have a certain magic there which few others approach. The highs are good but not great, but the bottom end leaves much to be desired. Their main claim to fame in the 80's was true audiophile midrange at under $600, which was revolutionary then. I have not yet found a good, seamless match in a subwoofer. What I would prefer is 2 small subs used as stands with the Spicas above. If you do use a sub, run the Spicas full range anyway - The lows roll off quite sharply on their own, so no need to degrade the signal by running it through the sub's passive crossover.
Back in the good ol days, people would "stack" two pairs and get much better bass response out of them, due to bass "coupling". I once hung them upside down in a kitchen, nestled in the corner where the ceiling meets the wall and they sounded great.
Especially because they had no inline fuses (to keep the signal pure), the tweeters were vulnerable, esp. the TC-50's Audax tweet, and being the nut that I was I always kept a few extra voice coils on hand. The TC-60's tweeters are more robust than the 50's but none of the Spica tweeters are in production anymore - so you're stuck if you blow em. I still have 2 tweeter coils and 2 unused whole woofers as back-up - but when those go, my Spicas will be worthless, at least to me. The major reason for the Spica coherence and imaging (other than optimized crossover design) was that they very carefully measured and matched each unique pair of drivers and crossovers at the factory. I bought my first pair used and couldn't get them to sound "right" at home. After thinking I was crazy for about 6 weeks, I finally called Spica for advice and they ascertained by checking the serial numbers against their testing records that what I had was not a factory matched pair. I spoke to the dealer and it turned out they had bought two pairs at an auction - and mixed them up. So the difference is very audible. (talk about service - even though I had bought them used, Jon Bau had me send them to New Mexico and he replaced ALL 4 drivers and shipped them back to me FOR FREE!)
So as you can see, replacing the tweeters with a different model, or a pair that is not as carefully chosen and matched to the crossover as Spica did, will negate everything the Spica is about.
All that being said - The TC-60 bass is better than the 50's, and the tweeter more robust - so if you place them near the corners of a smaller room, find a good matching sub, and don't overdo the volume or have an underpowered amp causing clipping you should be very happy for many years.
On the other hand, if you can go with a larger speaker at the same price levels, I highly recommend Dahlquist DQ-20's. No need for a sub, spectacular imaging, and incredibly sweet midrange. They're like giant Spicas, and they can be had in mint condition for $600 or less - a ridiculous bargain.
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I used to own spica angelus for 6 years. I sold them a few months ago and replaced them with Green Mountain Audio Europas (999 new).
The Europas do everything the spicas did and then some. They image equally well left to right, but with better depth of image. The micro and macrodynamics of the Europas is superior to the Angelus, and the high frequencies are much clearer on the Europas. I hear details on my LPs and CDs with the Europas that I've never heard before with the Spicas.
The angelus are fabulous speakers, no doubt, but there are now better speakers available in the sub-1000 price range.
I'd buy TC-60s, or Angelus speakers if someone was selling them for under $400, as IMHO this is all they're worth. As soon as prices go over $500 start looking for a used pair of Europas. I sold my angelus for $350 as they were a little untidy cosmetically. They're just not worth what some are charging for them. |
Where is John Bau nowaday, anybody knows? Great speaker designer. |
I had Angelus speakers, they were limited in terms of low-end but imaged beautifully. I suspect that Spica's do well in a smaller room and at low volume. When driven hard the woofers bottomed out and subsequently "blew up". Nope, the Classe amplifier didn't clip, the woofers just couldn't handle the source material at a relatively high volume. I replaced the woofers and sold 'em, they just aren't suited for rock music at high spls.
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"the tc-60's coupled with a good sub apparently can compete with almost anything playing anything on the market today"....
Unfortunately that is quite a bit if an overstatement!
Spica was at the leading edge in affordable high end audio 20 years ago, but there has been quite a few advances in driver materials, measurement techniques and overall understanding of crossover design since that time.
Spicas are very coherent, with a very natural sounding midrange as compared to many other offerings near their price point. BUT.... as far as "cost no object speaker comparatives, there are a PLETHORA of high end speakers (read more expensive)that will convy much better inner detail, have faster transients with more high frequency extension not to mention better dynamics and lower distortion too! (just to name a "few" sonic improvments over the Spicas ...read; "cost no object" can potentially buy much better sounding drivers and crossover parts!).
FYI: Here is a "short list" of monitor speakers I have experienced that I am very confident will eclipse the Spicas in virtually every sonic parameter:
- Ridge street Audio Sasson Ltd
- Merlin TSM MM
- Totem Rainmaker
- GR Research Dilucio
- Cliffhanger Bulldog
I'm sure that there are dozens more, but the above list I cited I know very well. I should also note that I owned both the TC-50's and the Angelus at one time, i.e. many years ago. |
Ehider,
TC 60 costs $895 including stands back at the time Audio Advisor sold them in the late 90s.
It would be fair if you give an example of speakers that costs
around 1k that clipses the TC 60 performance. How much does Merlin TSM MM cost a pair? |
Audiomax ... the GMA Europas cost $999 new NOW and I'm confident that they eclipse the tc-60s. I guarantee they eclipse the Angelus (they replaced in my system just a few months ago). The TC-60s, from what I remember, are so similar to the angelus that i'd expect a similar result.
Now if you could buy TC-60s for under $400 I'm sure that NOTHING will compete with them in that price range. The trouble is I see ads for them asking for $600, sometimes more ... for a speaker that's 10 years old and originally cost $900. They're just not worth that money. |
Hi Sean,
Your recommendation is noted.
I sold my TC-60 3 yrs ago and still had good memory with them.
Bass and treble extension are not up to today's standard but boy..that incredible midrange liquid with a lot of presence without a hint of agressiveness. I used all tube equipment at the time. $350 -$400 seems to be the good used price range for a 8/10 TC-60. |
Hi Audiomax,
The point of my posting was to make others (including the original poster) aware that the Spicas cannot really "compete with almost anything on the market" as he hypothosized.
In terms of a "fair" price comparitive monitor that equals or exceeds the Spica I would probably point to GR Research's lower priced offerings. From my own experience, I am VERY confident that GR Research's $1,200 ribbon monitor will definately beat the Spica in all respects and I STRONGLY suspect that GR Research's $500+ standard cone monitors will do this also.
If you do some digging on the net (Audioasylum for example) I think you will find that GR Research is held in very high regard. I never saw so many one sided over the top positive assessments when I first found out about this speaker line. That's how I discovered GR Research initially. Since then I have auditioned their ribbon monitors and am damn impressed indeed!
From the postings on the net it seems as if everyone who has compared ANY of GR monitor's to other similar priced speakers are pretty much blown away by how much better the GR Research offerings sound in comparison. |
Why doesn't everyone like brussel sprouts? |
thanks everyone, al these posts are great! ehider, i wasn't hypothosizing, i was compressing what i had read about the speaker here on a'gon; specifically, in a post where they were being compared to the very highly regarded vsa vr-1. and slipknot, quality is absolute. |
I used to be a dealer for them and I am not sure a more musical line of speakers has ever matched them in "bang for the buck". I think I still have some of both of them NIB. |
Why doesnt everyone have the same wife? |
So you have to wonder does the original poster believe everything he hears? "Apparently" it just may be the case. |
No one women would put up with all of us!!! |
I have owned tc-60's for 20 yrs had other systems focal 836, focal 826w, theil 1.2's, vienna acoustics mozart grand. Have heard for many hours each about a hundred others or more(by being associated with some dealers a while ago). I feel if you want everything to start in the midrange to be natural and not threadbare or ill defined but refined naturally, it is a speaker you will probably never tired of. Drawbacks are will not go extremely loud, however it will go more than sufficiently loud though for everything I listen to. And I don't listen to mine quietly. Also the don't go real low may? drop off in output at 60hrz??, but double bass comes out extremely well and in balance with the rest of the tonal curve. And it is a soft dome, no harshness here yet it is very refined and revealing. What it does in the midrange out I don't know of another speaker that does it as well. There is no fireworks with this speaker it is all about the musical refinements. But it is probably not exiting enough for some people. |
I still have my original TC50s in my bedroom system, and only recently found a speaker that outperforms them in every way - Ascendo System Zs. I had some other speakers that were good, and outperformed them in terms of dynamic scale, frequency extension at both ends, other audiophile "stuff", but after teh thrill wore off, I was always frustrated by the fact that music just sounded more natural through the Spicas. I am using them with a home made sealed box sub. Before I had the sub, I had teh speakers sitting on the floor against the wall, which improved bass response, and did less harm to high frequency and sound staging than you would think. |
"I used to be a dealer for them and I am not sure a more musical line of speakers has ever matched them in "bang for the buck". I think I still have some of both of them NIB."
You felt the need to revive a 7 yr. old thread why exactly?
Shakey |
