Why does most new music suck?

Whoa. It's only hindsight that's 20/20, maybe? The suggestion that complex melodies were being bandied about versus the ones that actually took place is a little overly optimistic don't you think, in retrospect? Seriously.

The simplest of melodies being the most pleasing allows one to what can be expressed with a minimum of expression. Nothing overtly ornate or colossal in scope, nothing pounded down your ears.

At a social gathering, It is the gifted ones who can make me relate with a gesture, a phrasing or a tell. The loud guy in the corner makes me look for another room, or to go outside. :-)

The same goes for music, at least with me. Beauty is in simplicity, but simplicity can be on grand scale when done right. Less chance of conflict, chaos and cacophony. Not all that is simple is pleasing, it's just that when done right, it can be beautiful. That's why I find solos, duets, trios, and small ensembles potentially great since it takes more talent to convey with less.

All the best,
Nonoise

Group hug...

Okay, sure. Let's be friends.

"You haven't answered my question, as I've noticed you don't actually address the meat of any one's post."

Which question?

I like David Bowie. Pretty awesome!

No I was not kidding. I do believe the simplest of melodies are most pleasing, and that the norm is mediocrity.

What am I on? Cholesterol medication. That's pretty much it.

You haven't answered my question, as I've noticed you don't actually address the meat of any one's post.

"You've melded two peoples' opinions on different issues into a collaborative position of your own. And you're talking about narcissism? What are you on?"

Jut trying to be helpful.

Oh well....

Any way, I'd like to bring up Bowie for a moment. He declined 'All The Young Dudes'. But wasn't he awesome? Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. Took what was left and made the best of it. And you can bet it needed the production it got.

You're kidding, right? You've melded two peoples' opinions on different issues into a collaborative position of your own. And you're talking about narcissism? What are you on?

"*But it's always been the simplest of melodies that are the most pleasing"

"Rja, mediocrity is the norm for everything, not just music."

Taken together, it seems that the simplest of melodies are most pleasing, and the norm is mediocrity.

So the dilemma is that the most pleasing music also happens to be mediocre.

I'll buy that.

Goose, does this answer you original question?

Who wants to be mediocre? It probably does "suck" relative to things that are "really good".

Nothing new here these days though. Most things are average, pretty much by definition. Average is well, average, it kinda "sucks" I suppose.

But the devils in the details regarding good/average/sucks. Ten people will give ten different answers, so back to the drawing board.

Damn, I though I finally had this one nailed....

Great tune, wasn't it? I loved it when it came out. No wonder our young folks want to follow suit.

Rja, mediocrity is the norm for everything, not just music. Interesting enough we always generalize on the 5% exception and compare to the norm of the here and now as we perceive it. A normal tendency I suppose. And when you add in the context of the discussion, mostly middle age gentleman speaking of the current state of the music art that they don't, for the most part explore, the opinions are generally predictable. I'm no critic of the here and now music and my bet is that many of the critics on this thread don't explore it in enough quantity or detail to really offer anything more than an anecdotal opinion based on their general taste than serious listining and critique, lets be honest here. Where are "All the Young Dudes"? come on Dudes, stand up and be counted!

I did check out Ben Howard, now there you go as an example of something that I would deem above mediocrity. Seems like there are plenty of others that listen to this guy as well.

The "90% of everything is crap" theory IMO is close to accurate and applies to OP's question.

*But it's always been the simplest of melodies that are the most pleasing

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Tube,

The PT tree concert I attended (FOABP tour) was also excellent. It was my idea to go and dragged a friend along as well who also enjoyed it. It was the loudest concert I had been to probably since college. The sound was stellar as well as the performance, the best heavy metal volume live rock concert sound I have heard, and in a venue that has proven hit or miss for me over time.

YEah, I know SW has been around a while. HE is 8 years younger than me. Still making new music though that has appeal to multiple age groups, especially since adapting some heavy/death metal type elements into some more recent material.

"**** I haven't even touched the surface and I dare say no one here has heard anywhere near the full gamut of what's been done in the past.********"

That's very true and a good way to go if new music is not of interest. I do some of both, but still tend to lean towards the old more than the new.

***** I haven't even touched the surface and I dare say no one here has heard anywhere near the full gamut of what's been done in the past.********

Very true, and another reason some people don't rush to embrace NEW music. They have not heard nor discovered all of the old yet. I am discovering Jazz greats from the 50-70's on a regular basis just from recommendations made on the Jazz Thread.

Cheers

BTW Mapman, Steve Wilson has been around a while, he might be older than you:) I saw them in Orlando a few years back, superb musicians, not enough hooks or pretty boy looks the reason they could never attain mainstream popular status but I REALLY enjoyed them. I went to see because of a friend's recommendation, glad I did.

Rok,

I can only speak for myself. Regarding The Porcupine Tree cut, I relate to it personally in two ways.

First, I like it artistically as a musical attempt to tell a story. The track is a cut from a fairly recent PT concept album "Fear of A Blank Planet".

The music is best categorized probably as progressive or art rock, a form still alive in pockets around the world but that has fallen out of favor since the 70's overall as a rock music form. PRog rock attempts to stretch rock music in various ways, much as classical composers attempt to innovate and stretch as well as simply entertain. Many will not relate to a specific work and prog/art rock is often described by those as "working too hard" to do something new and different and artistic. Thank God Beethoven, Mahler, Stravisnsky and others never listened to those guys!

Second, the concept album FOABP is about modern pop culture as it relates to youth today and the negative effects that can result. I have two young children of the age that this story is about. I find a lot of truth and warning and things to think about regarding their well being in todays world as a result. The album is extremely dark and depressing in its message. That is its intent. I relate to the message it delivers.

I saw PT perform much of FOABP live a few years back. I can assure you the crowd there related, just like the kids in the video with their arms extended.

Not everyone's cup of tea for sure.... I do not expect everyone to like it, though I do.

Mapman, it's just my perspective, I suppose. I don't mean to stink up the thread but in my mind it stands to reason that one would have to really flog it into acceptability. The very nature of being an audiophile is isolating. However virtually all younger people I've encountered into rap and the new stuff also love the early stuff. Interesting how this problem doesn't exist in reverse. Boring? Maybe if there was only a few tunes to play over and over. But my collection consists of less than 500 albums. I haven't even touched the surface and I dare say no one here has heard anywhere near the full gamut of what's been done in the past.

Oy vey....

I liked my youtube, didn't care for the others.

Closed Minded? Stating an opinion is not being closed Minded. ATTACKING someone for their opinion, IS being Closed Minded. This site is rife with that attitude. I think the shrinks call it 'projection'.

It's so pervasive, the members don't even notice it. They only get upset when someone dares to disagree with 'their' beliefs.

Most of this so-called new stuff submitted, is just soundtrack music for the video portion. The video is just as, or even more important than the music. They cannot be seperated. Crank it up and go to another room and listen. There is nothing there.

Narcissism? That only applies to the rock bands submitted. I didn't sense any effort to connect with the audience. It was all about themselves. Totally self absorbed.

The Stones were the Stones and the Beatles were the Beatles for a reason. And these unknowns are unknown for a reason. I think they will be NEW for a long time.

Cheers

Another way I discover new music without incurring too much risk or expense is to look for CDs on the cheap wherever I might find them, Goodwill store, yard sales, ebay, amazon, wherever and just take a chance for whatever reason. Then the CD goes onto my music server. THen I set the player to random play. Now I've programmed my own music station with a lot of music I have not yet heard but think I may like. When a track comes on that I like (most of the time in fact) I have no prior expectations so I cannot be dissapointed. I find something to like in most everything that comes my way. And as an "audiophile", I suppose, it mostly all sounds great! If it did not, I would be less disposed to spend the time needed listening. But that's another story...

In the good old days of music/audio (the 70's for me) I used to listen to the radio to discover new music I liked.

Tougher these days, especially if one is not disposed to like modern pop music. I qualify but only to an extent, because I constinue to find new stuff I like, just not as frequently perhaps as in the past. My 12 year old daughter has no problem whatsover, and her musical tastes are quite broadly developed I would say for someone her age.

Fortunately, internet radio and music services provide the avenue for most who want to discover new music these days. If one can't do it there, I might go so far as to predict one might be doomed to a life of musical boredom. Better find another hobby! :^)

Goose, you can't be blamed for turning into your parents, it happens as a consequence, for many, of adapting to habits and ideology over time.

Well I can't say if new music sucks or not because I don't listen to enough of it to make an informed opinion and my mind isn't as much of a "sponge" as it was when I was younger and more receptive, only speaking for myself. I DO believe I am receptive to new music but am generally too lazy to seek it out unless I hear something that captures my attention. What is ALWAYS "way cool" is when I get together with younger folks, namely my neices who are hip to new and my sister who is more in tune because of them. Bottom line is you gotta keep an open mind, you can't generalize a genre that you, on the whole, don't like and you have to seek out lest you won't discover.

Mapman when reading through this thread you made a comment that made me LOL, something about "old men" isolated from the world listening by themselves "in their room" paraphrasing a Brian Wilson tune, listening to their favorite tunes and getting either into the music or the sound, who knows! That is EXACTLY my picture of most audiophiles from my experience and encounters. It's a funny picture when you think of it.

I like the "Brian Evans" cut. Nothing new or radical there, but pretty groovy, baby, yeah!! Not pop as defined these days typically (maybe 50 years ago) or rock certainly, but who cares? Forget genre or labels applied by others. Just listen to the music and decide. Yeah baby!

"Interestingly enough, as all these bands seem to be trying too hard, the effort it demands to like it is commensurate. It's just work. Where's the fun part? "

Csontos,

Say what?

I understand liking something new might take effort, but where does the inference that the bands are also trying too hard as well accordingly come from?

That comment reeks of Narcissism, not an uncommon trait that many of us might share, but worth being aware of if one truly has an interest in keeping an open mind.

I guess I just don't get it. What I do get is that certain similarity apparent in everything presented so far except the plagiarized one Rok presented. First time I heard Dark Side Of The Moon in 71, it took a few spins to really get it into my blood as with lots of other music as well. But the potential has to be there. Interestingly enough, as all these bands seem to be trying too hard, the effort it demands to like it is commensurate. It's just work. Where's the fun part?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JX61Jlvd-Yw

Pink Floyd fans might like This

Mapman, love the Muse tune...all the "classic" rock elements. Toddnkaya, I have also gone down the alt country, folk path for some really good finds. Ben Howard is also on my "doesn't suck" list. Very talented!

The second video, of those most recently viewed, with violent images. Violence and music seem an odd pairing.

Pop music is, or should be aimed at the young. They should have their mind on lust errr ..... I mean Love. I guess O-10 nailed it. Reflection of the times.

Cheers

Sorry, that one didn't get me.

Here's one of my favorite more recent discoveries:

Muse Uprising

Just about as good as it gets start to finish.

I've heard that tune before.

I discovered this song by accident. I was making a complilation disc for the threadmill and copied it from a CD. I had never heard it before it came thru my headphones. This was 'NEW' music to me until a few months ago.

This song grabbed me. The first few bars, and I knew I had to listen to the end.

Some music you can get up and leave in the middle of the song, and some you can't.

I submit this as an example of music that I have recently discovered and now love. The pictures compliment the music. Enhances it. Not a distraction, but the song can and does, stand on it's own.

Check it out and make comments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWIGu6-r67Y

Cheers

"There are a few folks on here who seem jaded and disingenuous toward excepting great new music . As a music lover, that bums me out."

It bums me out too when a music lover cannot find good new music to enjoy. I have been in that trap myself in the past. Lots of causes and not uncommon. AN easy trap to fall into.

"the ones who profess to be the most open-minded who are quickest to put a negative spin on things:"

Gotta shut it (the open mind) sometimes otherwise whatever is there might easily all pour out. :^)

Sometimes, a little common sense goes a long way....

Cool Frogman, I am sorry for the negative comment. There are a few folks on here who seem jaded and disingenuous toward excepting great new music . As a music lover, that bums me out. I listen to mostly Alt. Pop/ Folk/ rock, with a lot of Alt. Country and Americana, and I am finding new music that thrills me every day!!
I really enjoy male singer song writers! I recently found an amazing artist through a fellow right here on Agon. Nglazer I think.
His name is Ben Howard. The album is Every Kingdom. Sit back and listen to this man's genius. The album is complete, meaning its fantastic from the first to last song.On Spotify, there were 6 tracks added to the album, and another EP called Burg Island . All of it is great. In my eyes he is one of the greatest singer song writers today. The few pro videos I have seen on YouTube were stunning as well. Enjoy, I hope...

****It seems useless to me to spoon feed someone music deemed good by one person. As has been pointed out, individual preferences abound naturally. Seems like a pointless effort.**** - Mapman

****I have near zero hope that Orpheus or Frog will like, or even consider my suggestions.**** - Toodnkaya

Not at all! It is natural to be at least a little complacent in our individual world of preferences. I think its a good thing to know that not everyone shares our point of view. Its also natural in these threads to want things to be a love-fest of agreement. I can't be any more clear than I have been and I will say it again: I WANT TO BE PROVEN WRONG. Now, the facts: out of, maybe, half a dozen examples of the "new", I said I liked two, one I liked a lot (Curran), the others I didn't particularly dislike but wouldn't go out of my way to listen to, one (the first) I truly disliked. Not that my likes should matter to anyone but me, but it sure doesn't sound like "zero hope"; does it? Unless, of course, you know enough about what I consider good, and don't have enough faith in your own choices.

I'd like to go back to something Rok said, and it's a feeling that I share. It's often (not always, obviously) the ones who profess to be the most open-minded who are quickest to put a negative spin on things: "seems useless to spoon feed", "zero hope that .....will like or even consider". And, lastly, let's try do more than just say "I like it". I look forward to your list, Todd.

I'm all ears!

You beat me to the punch.

Rok, I think here in lies your dilemma. Too much is being expected from some of us. I wouldn't change a thing:)

Chazro:

You seem to be ACCUSING me of expressing a like, for the music I like, and not doing so for the music I don't like. DUH??? Guilty!

Your last sentence was uncalled for. I don't know you, but then I don't know anyone on this entire site. But you are a music lover, who adds meanful input to the discussions. We need as many of those as we can get on this site. Currently we are outnumbered by the cable lifters crowd.

You are also a human being that comes across as being pretty smart and articulate.

We have different musical taste. And this part, is no big thing.

when you read my posts, imagine the IMHO thingy is there, just in case I forget to type it.

Cheers

Maybe, but it's always been the simplest melodies that are the most pleasing. History or not. That's the problem with originality. The more complicated it gets, the less pleasing until finally it's just garbage.

Frogman, I believe my last post is self explanatory.

Great point Mapman!! That said, I still want to compile some music that I deem great and may lead to discoveries to some fellow audiophiles. We spoon feed each other music suggestions all the time in numerous threads.
Many of the bands/albums that have given me so much musical pleasure the past 5 years I have found right here from fellow audiophiles.
I have near zero hope that Orpheus or Frog will like, or even consider my suggestions. I plan to start a seperate thread as not to derail this fine thread. ( I will link it here for those interested)

Actually, O-10 makes a lot of sense. I ahve always said Music IS History.

Cheers

Sorry, in my world, there's only one acceptable cover of this song.

Marty McFly in Back to the Future

A smokin' solo from (I'm told) Mark Campbell of Jack Mack & The Heart Attack

Wazzup Frogman! You misunderstood my post as I wasn't addressing the OP at all.

Rok - Dude, I try to read most of the music-related threads here (out of curiosity more than anything else) and when I read yr posts they come off as declarations. If the music falls within yr parameters (safety zones?) it's the greatest, if it isn't something yr comfortable with, and this is where we'll differ every time, you seem to deem the music as being unworthy. But hey, it's my problem right? I normally just say to myself; "to each his own...", yesterday I was just feeling a little cranky. Truth is, you & I couldn't care less about each other so it ain't no big thing.

It seems useless to me to spoon feed someone music deemed good by one person. As has been pointed out, individual preferences abound naturally. Seems like a pointless effort.

Whatever ones preferences, why not use Pandora or similar service to find music similar to what you know you like?

Orpheus10 , try to leave sociology, politics, and economics out of the equation. I am finding new great music all the time . Great composing, song writing,singing etc.
As I said, I am getting a list together of fantastic bands/albums together. It's taking me a while as I have so many. Of course this is my taste in music, and what I see as fantastic musicianship. But I have great taste! ;-) I also put in a lot of time to discovering new music.

Bingo! (to the extent that I agree with the statement)